I need some assistance, please!

Brigid Barry · Feb 19, 2012

So I wrote a really neat novel. After fighting tooth and nail in Query Letter Hell to force people to accept that my novel is in fact a romance and not a fantasy, I have finally been defeated and see that my novel is a fantasy with romantic elements.

As a Romance, my novel was creative and different. :hooray:

As a Fantasy I find myself comparing to Narnia, Song of Ice and Fire, Lord of the Rings, Kingkiller and Eragon. The comparisons are not favorable. :Shrug:

I have 87,000 words right now in my "fantasy with romantic elements". If I cut out the naughty stuff that I only put in to make it more of a romance, it will be around 80ish. If I cut the romance out altogether...well, there isn't much left.

What are word counts for Fantasy? eHarlequin has a publisher (Luna) that my novel would fit into perfectly. Except I'm 13,000 words short of their 100,000 word minimum. That's after revising to develop the plot and characters more. I don't think I could add 13k words of fluff.

This novel took me 10 years to write and now I'm feeling defeated - I have very strong doubts that I would be competitive in the fantasy market with this novel.

Thoughts? What would you do?

:flag:

gothicangel · Feb 19, 2012

Well, you have a choice. You can:

1. Query it anyway, and see what happens.
2. Trunk it.

If you've had a hard time trying to convince QLH, that it's a romance then you'll find it 100x worse trying to persuade an agent.

Brigid Barry · Feb 19, 2012

gothicangel said:
Well, you have a choice. You can:

1. Query it anyway, and see what happens.
2. Trunk it.

If you've had a hard time trying to convince QLH, that it's a romance then you'll find it 100x worse trying to persuade an agent.

I think I might have realized that at some point. I just don't ever see this being picked up as a Fantasy compared to what is already out there. I can't even think of any titles that are similar to this.

mirandashell · Feb 19, 2012

Seems to me you're not giving it the chance. How do you know it won't work?

There's quite a lot of stuff out there that makes me think 'How the hell did this get published?' But it does.

Undercover · Feb 19, 2012

I agree with mirandashell. Just try to query it for a while and see what works and what doesn't. If you don't get any bites, then possibly reconsider changing it into something else. I think if you query it as romance and or fantasy, you will get some answers then. Good Luck with it!

CAMueller · Feb 19, 2012

KateM said:
If I cut out the naughty stuff that I only put in to make it more of a romance, it will be around 80ish. If I cut the romance out altogether...well, there isn't much left.

There's no reason you can't have "the naughty stuff" in fantasy. Lots of fantasy novels include romantic subplots that involve sexual/sensual scenes. It's part of depicting a full character.

My bigger concern is you said you only added the sex to make it a romance. If the sex is plot purposeful, then you need to keep it. If it's just shoehorned in for titillation, ditch it. Readers are going to expect for those sexual scenes to move the character development along -- does it speak to the growth of the couple in the subplot, etc?

Think about the story and what makes it complete and satisfying.

Brigid Barry · Feb 19, 2012

CAMueller said:
There's no reason you can't have "the naughty stuff" in fantasy. Lots of fantasy novels include romantic subplots that involve sexual/sensual scenes. It's part of depicting a full character.

My bigger concern is you said you only added the sex to make it a romance. If the sex is plot purposeful, then you need to keep it. If it's just shoehorned in for titillation, ditch it. Readers are going to expect for those sexual scenes to move the character development along -- does it speak to the growth of the couple in the subplot, etc?

Think about the story and what makes it complete and satisfying.

I did make it sound like that's what I did, didn't I? Those scenes propel the relationship forward, secure some bonds that were created earlier in the story and help push the end conflict between the h/h. The ones that were gratuitous were already cut.

The revisions I made were as I was reading through everything, make sense to the plot and help add some extra characterization for the heroine. I was kind of surprised that she seems really uptight but has all kinds of sizzling sensuality and emotional strength underneath it all.

No shoehorning for cheap titilation.

CAMueller · Feb 19, 2012

KateM said:
I did make it sound like that's what I did, didn't I?

No worries. I'm sure you're stressed about thinking about your work in a new direction, but to me it sounds more like you shouldn't need to remove your romantic elements for it to play well with the fantasy set. (Said as someone who reads almost exclusively speculative fiction.)

artemis31386 · Feb 19, 2012

I'm with the others who say either query it or trunk it. You never know. Is this your first novel? I ask because to be honest, most first novels never see the light of day and that's normal.

Brigid Barry · Feb 19, 2012

artemis31386 said:
I'm with the others who say either query it or trunk it. You never know. Is this your first novel? I ask because to be honest, most first novels never see the light of day and that's normal.

I can't decide if I want to finish editing and query, or just put it back and never look at it again. So trunk or query is my dilemma.

Yes, this is my first novel. And at this exact moment in time I am sick of looking at it in addition to being discouraged about trying to get it published as a fantasy.
:Headbang:

kaitie · Feb 19, 2012

Have your beta readers ruled out the possibility that it might be a paranormal romance or something of that sort? I'm not saying the people in QLH are wrong, but they also haven't read your whole book. I just wonder because you say that if you took out the romance there wouldn't be much left.

I worry that you say that the book doesn't stand out amid fantasy in general. My first thought for advice is to consider smaller publishers as books that might not sell to a big publisher might work better with a small one, but if the problem is a lack of originality, that may not make much difference.

Honestly the only thing you can do is try. You can query it out, see what happens and what kind of feedback you get. I'd work on a new book in the meantime, personally.

Kaitie, who sympathizes because she likes to write oddly-genred books

rugcat · Feb 19, 2012

Well, of course, there's a whole genre known as paranormal romance -- basically a blend of romance and fantasy, mostly urban fantasy.

But there's no such thing as a book that will receive no consideration if it doesn't fit neatly into a genre. Editors want good books, period. It's up to marketing departments to decide how to promote it.

That said, 87K is indeed short for an epic fantasy. But it's fine for more contemporary fantasies.

kaitie · Feb 19, 2012

KateM said:
I can't decide if I want to finish editing and query, or just put it back and never look at it again. So trunk or query is my dilemma.

Yes, this is my first novel. And at this exact moment in time I am sick of looking at it in addition to being discouraged about trying to get it published as a fantasy.

I'd say at least try. Honestly, it might be that your worries are unfounded. It might also get rejected, but then you at least know that you gave it a shot.

Personally, I'd suggest giving it a try because if you're like me, you'll spend the rest of your life wondering if it could have made it. Send out a few test letters, see what happens, and work on something different to get your mind off things.

Querying is scary and terrifying and sometimes awesome, but it's just a matter of jumping in and doing it. And honestly...the rejections aren't even that bad after awhile.

kaitie · Feb 19, 2012

rugcat said:
Well, of course, there's a whole genre known as paranormal romance -- basically a blend of romance and fantasy, mostly urban fantasy.

But there's no such thing as a book that will receive no consideration if it doesn't fit neatly into a genre. Editors want good books, period. It's up to marketing departments to decide how to promote it.

That said, 87K is indeed short for an epic fantasy. But it's fine for more contemporary fantasies.

Isn't shorter usually accepted for romances as well?

Brigid Barry · Feb 19, 2012

kaitie said:
Have your beta readers ruled out the possibility that it might be a paranormal romance or something of that sort? I'm not saying the people in QLH are wrong, but they also haven't read your whole book. I just wonder because you say that if you took out the romance there wouldn't be much left.

Lol. I was originally trying to pitch it as a paranormal romance and kept getting shot down that it was fantasy. The romance is roughly half the plot. If I took out that particular plot line my word count would be halved, the major twist for the MC would be removed and the entire ending of my novel would change.

Not saying it's not original, just saying it wouldn't stand out next to some of the other fantasy stuff. No one wakes up in the morning and eats cereal, she's not a down and out teenager that discovers she has magic powers or she's the only one that can accomplish a particular task. My bad guy is even good looking. No moustache or anything.

rugcat said:
Well, of course, there's a whole genre known as paranormal romance -- basically a blend of romance and fantasy, mostly urban fantasy.

But there's no such thing as a book that will receive no consideration if it doesn't fit neatly into a genre. Editors want good books, period. It's up to marketing departments to decide how to promote it.

That said, 87K is indeed short for an epic fantasy. But it's fine for more contemporary fantasies.

It's definitely not epic enough to be epic fantasy, regardless of word count. Definitely not urban fantasy either - most of it takes place in the woods. lol.

I actually posted a thread (on the Novels board, I think) asking what genre this belongs in, completely with an outline of the story much longer than anything posted in here.

Brigid Barry · Feb 19, 2012

kaitie said:
I'd say at least try. Honestly, it might be that your worries are unfounded. It might also get rejected, but then you at least know that you gave it a shot.

Personally, I'd suggest giving it a try because if you're like me, you'll spend the rest of your life wondering if it could have made it. Send out a few test letters, see what happens, and work on something different to get your mind off things.

Querying is scary and terrifying and sometimes awesome, but it's just a matter of jumping in and doing it. And honestly...the rejections aren't even that bad after awhile.

Knowing what genre to pitch this as will be incredibly helpful for my query.

Does anyone have a magical editing wand that I can wave over my ms?

Kitty27 · Feb 19, 2012

Girl,go head and query that book!

What's the worst that could happen? An agent says no and then you go onto the next one!

Maybe you've invented a whole new genre!

I write what I call in-between books sometimes. I usually pick the genre it shares the most characteristics with and go from there.

jjdebenedictis · Feb 19, 2012

Better to try and fail than to never try at all.

Both outcomes might be the same, but only the first will allow you to look in the mirror and be proud of yourself.

QUERY IT. And get busy writing another book while you do.

BethS · Feb 19, 2012

OK, I think you're despairing too quickly.

There's all kinds of fantasy out there. And the market for romantic fantasy is a pretty big one. You may be in a better place than you know.

Polish it up, and start querying agents. If you land an agent, let him or her decide how best to market it.

Layla Nahar · Feb 19, 2012

Go for it - you wrote 87 thousand words! w00t! Give it a chance in the light of day

jaksen · Feb 19, 2012

So you spent ten years writing a novel and now - what? What are you planning to do? At the very least send it out to some agents.

And you say you tried to force people to accept it as a romance not a fantasy?

Forget all that. Send that query out.

I think you are over-questioning yourself and perhaps, relying too much on the opinion of other people. Let's face it, their opinions will vary widely. I only have sold short stories, and I only allow two people to read them before they whisk out the door to NYC - but those two people have 'advised' me to change quite a few of those stories. I listen. I heed their advice when it is sound. I ignore them when they are wrong.

It is okay to ignore the voices with whom you disagree. In the end, it is your story, your effort, your risk to take as you try to find an agent and/or publisher.

Little Ming · Feb 19, 2012

KateM said:
So I wrote a really neat novel. After fighting tooth and nail in Query Letter Hell to force people to accept that my novel is in fact a romance and not a fantasy, I have finally been defeated and see that my novel is a fantasy with romantic elements.

See the use of words here. Genre should be something obvious from a query letter. We should be able to tell what genre it is before you even tell us. The fact that you have to "force" someone to see it your way means either this really isn't your genre, or your query is not as clear as it should be.

That said, it might just be your query. I'm assuming most (or all people) who have critiqued your query (myself included) have not actually read your novel yet. If your novel really, truly is a romance, then you might not be as clear as you need to be.

As a Romance, my novel was creative and different.

As a Fantasy I find myself comparing to Narnia, Song of Ice and Fire, Lord of the Rings, Kingkiller and Eragon. The comparisons are not favorable.

But these are not "fantasy with a romantic element." Fantasy is a big genre, you cannot only compare yourself with a few examples, especially if those examples are not even in your sub-genre.

I have 87,000 words right now in my "fantasy with romantic elements". If I cut out the naughty stuff that I only put in to make it more of a romance, it will be around 80ish. Why do you need to cut it? If I cut the romance out altogether...well, there isn't much left. Again, why would you cut it? "Fantasy with romantic elements" means the romantic parts stay in.... unless you only added those parts because you were trying to "force" your novel into the romance genre... But that's not what you've done, right?

What are word counts for Fantasy? eHarlequin has a publisher (Luna) that my novel would fit into perfectly. Except I'm 13,000 words short of their 100,000 word minimum. That's after revising to develop the plot and characters more. I don't think I could add 13k words of fluff.

I read fantasy and I think 87k is an acceptable word count. A little on the light side, but nowhere near automatic reject territory.

If you were talking about "epic fantasy" or "high fantasy" I would be more concerned, but I have even seen some romantic-fantasy novellas published, so it is not impossible to sell a romantic-fantasy novel at 87k.

This novel took me 10 years to write and now I'm feeling defeated - I have very strong doubts that I would be competitive in the fantasy market with this novel. As long as it's well written...

Honestly, I've read your query and your synopsis in the Novel section, and your story is a very standard fantasy storyline. MC goes on a quest to find magical object (talking horse in this case).

Thoughts? See above. What would you do? See below.

As someone who has read and commented in your QLH thread, I still don't understand why you are so opposed to the fantasy genre. Your word count is a little low, I agree, but it is still well within the acceptable length. And fantasy is a huge genre with many sub-genres, including "romantic fantasy" or "fantasy with romantic elements."

As an experiment why not just try writing a fantasy query with the romance cut out? Instead focus on your MC and her quest to find the talking horse. Focus on her goal, her motivation, her actions and the psychopath (antagonist) who gets in her way. It might not be as bad as you think.

And following on the advice given here, even if you refuse to change the genre, query it anyway. You have nothing to lose. The worst thing that can happen is you will be universally rejected, but that outcome is the same if you never query in the first place.

Good luck.

tko · Feb 19, 2012

stop thinking and query

First of all, you could be surprised. Second of all, you'll learn a lot by the process. Third of all, use what you learn to start on your next novel, and that includes the mandatory query process.

I'm sure you're very discouraged now, but think about how much you've learned. Sometimes it's less work to start over than to fix what you've done. Accept that you're a better writer now, and a lot of that 10 years was spent learning.

Do you have betas? Do they like the novel? If not, find some. I didn't see your posts, sorry, but I see nothing wrong with a romantic fantasy. People probably thought romantic vampire novels were silly at one time, and look what happened.

Brigid Barry · Feb 20, 2012

Oh, optimism.

Little Ming said:
As someone who has read and commented in your QLH thread, I still don't understand why you are so opposed to the fantasy genre. Your word count is a little low, I agree, but it is still well within the acceptable length. And fantasy is a huge genre with many sub-genres, including "romantic fantasy" or "fantasy with romantic elements."

As an experiment why not just try writing a fantasy query with the romance cut out? Instead focus on your MC and her quest to find the talking horse. Focus on her goal, her motivation, her actions and the psychopath (antagonist) who gets in her way. It might not be as bad as you think.

And following on the advice given here, even if you refuse to change the genre, query it anyway. You have nothing to lose. The worst thing that can happen is you will be universally rejected, but that outcome is the same if you never query in the first place.

Good luck.

I'm not opposed to the fantasy genre as much as I am just intimidated by it. I enjoy reading fantasy (which is probably why I write it) but I immediately think of the fantasy I love and why I love it...and then feel mine is inferior because I really don't get in depth about the world. I don't even have a prologue! (<- that's a joke)

I am going to look into it. I was really worried that my piece wouldn't "fit" into fantasy because I didn't realize that romantic fantasy was a genre. Now that I know, I think my novel will fit right in.

I do wonder - since I'd be pitching it as a romantic fantasy - would I remove the romance from the query? Pitching as a fantasy would be really easy. I just don't want an agent thinking my novel is one thing and then have them get the ms and be surprised in a negative way.

I'll be back on QLH eventually. After I edit. :Hammer:

BethS · Feb 20, 2012

KateM said:
I don't even have a prologue!

That's done it. You're doomed.

If the romance is a strong part of the story, it should probably be mentioned in the query. But it doesn't have to be the whole focus of the query.

I need some assistance, please!

🧂🐎👩

Toughen up.

🧂🐎👩

I got it covered

Part-time ninja

🧂🐎👩

Part-time ninja

All around miscreant

🧂🐎👩

With great power comes

Lost in the Fog

With great power comes

With great power comes

🧂🐎👩

🧂🐎👩

So Goth That I Was Born Black

is watching you via her avatar

Seashell Seller

Caped Codder

just thanks fore everything

🧂🐎👩