Revise, revise; or get it right the first time?

mfarraday · Feb 15, 2012

Do you revise your work after laying the skeleton of your story down?

Or do you try to get the words exactly right the first time.

i ran into a block a couple weeks ago; i was studying self-help books for authors quite voraciously. and i got way too self critical and became paralyzed.

well i put the self help books down finally, and i am back to writing unselfconsciously, but i keep in the back of my mind the things i might have to change later.

does this work for you, or are you skilled enough to spot those things before/as you do them?

i am not at that point yet. i hope sometime i can be, since it would save time, though, of course.

which type are you? are you skilled enough to stop mistakes before you make them, or as you make them?

or do you turn back later and pick out the mistakes after you're done writing the initial draft?

not saying that there is anyone out there with no need to revise at all. but i definitely fall in the latter category, hands down.

thanks for listening,

Madeleine

TikaaniM · Feb 15, 2012

I can spot mistakes as I make them, but there's at least one or three errors in the entire book I have missed. That was recent however. I would rewrite the whole book because things lacked, like details or wording. I do not think you can over do it. I revised about ten plus times. I come to discover revise until it's nearly perfect.

mulcahy67 · Feb 15, 2012

i never think about revisions or anything like that when i'm writing a first draft. i just want the idea/words down on paper, have it all out there, and i'm usuallly writing too fast anyway, that i couldn't just pick up on one or two little things and fix them. i feel it would mess with my flow. even if i did revise as i wrote, i'd probably still end up revising that later.

i usually wait until i'm completely down with a draft, i just like the finality of the process.

Aggy B. · Feb 15, 2012

I fall in the "fix it in post" camp. (Which is a film making joke about fixing errors or flaws during editing/post-production.)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with making heavy edits or revisions to a story after you write the first draft. In fact, sometimes it's necessary to get the story out in the first place.

But, the longer I've been writing, the more certain "fixable" things become obvious to me. Like using a key word too close together. (Although sometimes I fail miserably at it too, depending on how deeply in "story" mode I am.) Or using a hyphenated sentences instead of one with lots of commas. Or starting every sentence with "I" when writing first person.

The more you write, the more you learn how to write better first drafts. And in the meantime, editing is your friend.

And sometimes, if you're lucky, you'll hit a story that comes out nearly perfect.

Aggy, written two of those in her entire writing career, the rest require a few whacks with the editing machete

SomethingOrOther · Feb 15, 2012

I'm not scarletpeachy enough yet to spot all my mistakes as I write, so I come back and revise later. I think that's true of most writers. Don't worry if you can't. Read this.

gothicangel · Feb 15, 2012

I'm another reviser.

For me the joy of the first draft is having fun, and getting it down on paper.

I make changes, but they aren't major structural changes [it could be weak writing, flabby paragraphs, or problems thrown up by more detailed historical research.]

KaiaSonderby · Feb 15, 2012

I usually don't have to revise that extensively.

Which is kind of an odd thing to say, because I do revise extensively, but I tend to do it before I even write the book. I do a ton of work in my head, so ideas I have when I'm first thinking on my WIP change radically from when they first pop into my mind to when they get written down. I do everything in my head, all my outlining and stuff. Dunno, is just a quirk I guess.

The most extensive revisions I do are when I haven't revisited a story in a good long while, and I have a couple years or more of learning to apply to it. Otherwise it's a lot of "Hey, I don't need that word" or "This sentence means the same thing both with or without that adverb" or "Okay, I've used 'just' five times in a single paragraph, maybe I should cut out a few, no?"

I don't think anything is completely mistake-free the first time, though.

BethS · Feb 15, 2012

I revise extensively, but I do it as I go. IOW, I don't write an entire draft and then revise it. I do my revisions at the scene level, revising constantly. Any given scene may get as many as 50 passes before I deem it finished.

Linda Adams · Feb 15, 2012

which type are you? are you skilled enough to stop mistakes before you make them, or as you make them?
or do you turn back later and pick out the mistakes after you're done writing the initial draft?

This is one of those things where the more we write, the better we get. Instead of catching the mistakes as we make them, we simply don't make them. Or make harder to find ones. I had a problem with repetitions. I'd find scenes where I'd said something and then a paragraph later, repeated it. Once I went through the manuscript just for that, I didn't do as many repetitions on future writing -- but the repetitions I did do were a lot more subtle and harder to find.

And a lot of those dumb little mistakes will come out in the editing (here, I'm differentiating between editing and revising). I honestly don't think a lot of those can be caught as it's been written because it's easy to fill in what we think it says, not what it actually says. During editing, I run into a lot of places where the pronouns are confusing, and they didn't look that way when I wrote it. But I don't sweat the small mistakes, because they are easy to fix, and there are lot of bigger things that will need attention.

Layla Nahar · Feb 15, 2012

It depends on how hard I'm struggling to figure out what happens next. The harder it is for me to figure out what's going on & what happens next, the more I let the language go. The easier the scene comes to me the more I try to get the language right.

DanielaTorre · Feb 15, 2012

I always wondered what people meant with "laying down the skeleton" or "bare bones" of your ms during the first draft. Like, getting all your thoughts on paper and then revise once you're finished.

What does that mean? When I think about this, I think of say, a screenplay structure. Is that they mean? Because when I write, I write the way I want the narrative to be as a finished product (or as close to as possible). There are obvious things that need to be corrected, grammar and what not, but not enough that needs substantial filling in.

I don't read books about writing (except for maybe Stephen King's) because I don't want to be over-analytical. I just read read. That's the structure I follow and that's how I learn. Again, I try to write as well as humanly possible in the first draft - not to avoid doing it in the second or third - but because that's the only way to get that "rush" or "euphoria" one gets from telling a story. There's emotion involved in writing which I believe is highly important... unless you're a serial writer like King, Patterson, etc.

Todd Young · Feb 15, 2012

I write the first draft quickly and try not to worry too much about how bad it is. When I've finished I leave it for a few weeks before rewriting it.

scarletpeaches · Feb 15, 2012

SomethingOrOther said:
I'm not scarletpeachy enough yet to spot all my mistakes as I write, so I come back and revise later. I think that's true of most writers. Don't worry if you can't. Read this.

Honey, I'm not scarletpeachy enough.

But, as Aggy's already mentioned, I find the more I write, the better my first drafts get. Hell, my first drafts now are better than my allegedly submission-quality manuscripts from years back.

I make fewer errors at the draft stage now, which is probably why the editing takes less time too.

But when it comes to obsessively revising, or getting it right the first time, I don't see why it has to be one or the other. I do neither. I write the first draft as fast as I can when I'm in the middle of a WIP, and don't get everything right, but neither do I revise until I've typed 'The End'.

ETA: And ignore everything Anne Lamott has ever written. Bird by Bird is the shittiest piece of navel-gazing, self-obsessed, emotionally vampiric shite I've ever read. It's 200 pages of me, me, me masquerading as a 'how to write' book.

mfarraday · Feb 15, 2012

scarletpeaches said:
ETA: And ignore everything Anne Lamott has ever written. Bird by Bird is the shittiest piece of navel-gazing, self-obsessed, emotionally vampiric shite I've ever read. It's 200 pages of me, me, me masquerading as a 'how to write' book.

LOL thanks for the advice.

i do appreciate all the replies!

back to lurking, and reading.

kuwisdelu · Feb 15, 2012

I don't exactly get everything right the first time, but I revise as I go along and until I'm happy with what I have before moving on. There's always things I end up fixing later, but I try to have it as good as I can the first time so I have a reasonably clean first draft.

But then, I'm unpublished, so my "right" may still be pretty wrong.

joeyc · Feb 15, 2012

I have to write a draft and then revise it, removing unneeded phrases, getting rid of that blasted passive voice where I can, adding foreshadowing.

I'm working on the second draft right now. Hopefully I can have it submission quality by the end of April, but I really don't know what "submission quality" is right now.

mfarraday · Feb 15, 2012

DanielaTorre said:
I always wondered what people meant with "laying down the skeleton" or "bare bones" of your ms during the first draft. Like, getting all your thoughts on paper and then revise once you're finished.

What does that mean? When I think about this, I think of say, a screenplay structure. Is that they mean? Because when I write, I write the way I want the narrative to be as a finished product (or as close to as possible). There are obvious things that need to be corrected, grammar and what not, but not enough that needs substantial filling in.

I don't read books about writing (except for maybe Stephen King's) because I don't want to be over-analytical. I just read read. That's the structure I follow and that's how I learn. Again, I try to write as well as humanly possible in the first draft - not to avoid doing it in the second or third - but because that's the only way to get that "rush" or "euphoria" one gets from telling a story. There's emotion involved in writing which I believe is highly important... unless you're a serial writer like King, Patterson, etc.

ideally, i want the narrative to be as close to the finished product as possible, too, but i find lately i just have to stop worrying and WRITE. if i worry about my style or show-vs-tell etc, or think too much, i get paralyzed. so i try to get the story out so i can see it in black and white. and once i get it on the page i can see that it's not as bad as i feared it would be; neither is it the best that it could possibly be. but if i worry about it being the best ever, better than anything that anyone's ever written, i get blocked. i can't write at all.

so i've found that i need to get the essential story down, the skeletal structure, and try to fill in the holes as i go along as much as i can, and then revise later. i pick it apart once i'm done. i am neither as good as a writer as i once hoped, nor as bad as a writer i've felt that i am, at times. i'm somewhere in the middle. and that's enough for me to get the work done.

i'm hoping i will continue to improve as i go along, though. and i'd like to be more aware of my mistakes as i make them. sometimes i just have to forget about the techniques etc and get it done.

sorry to ramble. back to lurking!

DanielaTorre · Feb 15, 2012

mfarraday said:
ideally, i want the narrative to be as close to the finished product as possible, too, but i find lately i just have to stop worrying and WRITE. if i worry about my style or show-vs-tell etc, or think too much, i get paralyzed. so i try to get the story out so i can see it in black and white. and once i get it on the page i can see that it's not as bad as i feared it would be; neither is it the best that it could possibly be. but if i worry about it being the best ever, better than anything that anyone's ever written, i get blocked. i can't write at all.

so i've found that i need to get the essential story down, the skeletal structure, and try to fill in the holes as i go along as much as i can, and then revise later. i pick it apart once i'm done. i am neither as good as a writer as i once hoped, nor as bad as a writer i've felt that i am, at times. i'm somewhere in the middle. and that's enough for me to get the work done.

i'm hoping i will continue to improve as i go along, though. and i'd like to be more aware of my mistakes as i make them. sometimes i just have to forget about the techniques etc and get it done.

sorry to ramble. back to lurking!

Not over-analyzing takes practice. LOL. Trust me, I've been there. That's how most trunked manuscripts are born. This is usually very common in first-time writing endeavors. By your second try at a project you should condition yourself (trail and error) to barrel through it. Sure, give the last several pages you wrote a once over and correct, but mostly continue. Don't burden yourself with suckage.

The ideal thing is to put away those books on writing and just write. Then, if you like, read them once you've finish your draft and go back revise according to what you read. That'll give you the best of both worlds. Now, as far as "writing your best" the first time around, I suggest you find a middle ground. For example, write as well as you naturally can. If it doesn't sound right, ignore it and continue. If you don't learn to let it go, you'll never finish.

Good luck to you!

mfarraday · Feb 15, 2012

thanks, i will keep that in mind.

i've only been writing for about a year...

thanks everyone for all the support! writers are the best.

mfarraday · Feb 15, 2012

kuwisdelu said:
But then, I'm unpublished, so my "right" may still be pretty wrong.

me too. here's hoping, though!

Draíocht · Feb 15, 2012

I tend to do both. I revise each chapter after I've written it, repeat a few times and read aloud, then when the entire manuscript is done, I revise it umpteen times. Nothing major, just areas where something may have become repetitious, or possibly a description that I'd already used elsewhere.

I don't think there's a right or wrong to revision. Each writer has their own personal way of doing things, find what's comfortable and what works for you.

LJD · Feb 15, 2012

I need a pretty thorough revision or two. I can't entirely figure out where I'm going with a story until I see it all on paper.
But my first drafts are better than they used to be. For sure.

CrastersBabies · Feb 15, 2012

Whatever works for you.

I don't think it's a matter of people who "can" or "cannot" fix as they go. It's a choice. No way is right or wrong.

For me, I don't correct as I go. It doesn't jive with my creative process. Even if I chose to do things that way, I would still revise and edit. I won't churn out sub-par material. I want to put out the absolute best work I can muster. That means (for me) revision and editing.

When I sit down each day to write, I do go over the work I completed the day before and will fix any blaring issues. But, never "in process," no.

c.m.n. · Feb 15, 2012

I've been desperately making myself write a rough draft as it is, rough! Because I am one of those who will scroll to the top of the ms and start fixing mistakes before I'm even 1/2 through the ms.

It's true that the more you write, the easier it gets to see mistakes and correct as you go. But if you are spending part of your writing time reading for small errors from chapter 1 when you are supposed to be working on chapter 8 - FYI: not speaking of plot points you suddenly figured out that need to be inserted somewhere in the beginning - then yeah... nothing gets done.

It doesn't hurt to revise and edit. You want the best quality book you can write

Stijn Hommes · Feb 16, 2012

I usually don't have to revise a lot, but there is no such thing as perfect first time round. You always have to fix some things after draft 1.

Revise, revise; or get it right the first time?

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