Use of songs & musicians in novel

scheherazade · Feb 11, 2012

To what extent are you legally permitted to refer to real-life songs and musicians (or for that matter, movies, books, and other copyrighted materials) in a novel? I know that to quote lyrics or text you'd need to arrange rights and pay a royalty, but what are you freely allowed to mention?

I seem to recall a teacher once saying you can't even use the title of a song without paying royalties. That would certainly explain why so many books have characters avoid referring to song or film titles by name but instead saying something vague like "Can't remember the name, but it's that big one." Or is that just a shortcut to avoid alienating readers who aren't familiar with the work?

artemis31386 · Feb 11, 2012

You need permission from the rights owner before you can use song lyrics, but you can refer to song titles and artist names. Of course, check with your country's laws.

TheRob1 · Feb 12, 2012

In the Paladin of Shadow series John Ringo actually set up entire sound tracks for each novel.

dangerousbill · Feb 12, 2012

The quiz is, if a song title occurs in the lyrics, is the copyright still being infringed? Here's the downside:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/may/01/blake-morrison-lyrics-copyright

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 12, 2012

dangerousbill said:
The quiz is, if a song title occurs in the lyrics, is the copyright still being infringed? Here's the downside:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/may/01/blake-morrison-lyrics-copyright

Not in the US. It's the rare song title that doesn't appear in lyrics.

To the OP: mentioning bands, musicians, song titles, album titles, movies, plays and books are all fine. It's when you start quoting from them that it gets dicey.

scheherazade · Feb 16, 2012

Ok, thanks. So just to clarify, in the US, even if the song title is a lyric of the song, it's okay to refer to that in your novel? Good Vibrations!

Deleted member 42 · Feb 16, 2012

Keep in mind that popular culture references can date a book, and not in a romantic way. It can disenfranchise readers.

Think about who your readers will be next year, five years from now, and twenty years down the road. Do you need the cultural reference? Or is it a potential problem?

seun · Feb 17, 2012

Medievalist said:
Keep in mind that popular culture references can date a book, and not in a romantic way. It can disenfranchise readers.

Think about who your readers will be next year, five years from now, and twenty years down the road. Do you need the cultural reference? Or is it a potential problem?

Absolutely. And ask yourself why you want to ref songs or musicians. Is it because doing so will add to your book or develop its themes? Or is it a crutch to support your story?

Shara · Feb 17, 2012

My understanding is that titles cannot be copyrighted, so it's OK to use them. Quoting from lyrics, as has been mentioned, is the dangerous territory.

I would also agree that one of the reasons films and songs are often not mentioned specifically is that they date a story. If you write a novel in 2004 and it doesn't get published until 2012 (or beyond), do you want to pin it down in time by having specific references in it that will date it?

Nymtoc · Feb 17, 2012

Medievalist said:
Keep in mind that popular culture references can date a book, and not in a romantic way. It can disenfranchise readers.

Think about who your readers will be next year, five years from now, and twenty years down the road. Do you need the cultural reference? Or is it a potential problem?

That's all true, if the musical references you are using are contemporary, and that's what I imagine you have mind. But there is another way to use songs and musicians--if it fits your characters and backgrounds--and that's by using songs from the past. If, for example, your contemporary character has a fondness for Stevie Wonder, the character could be listening to Stevie's 'Up-Tight," from 1966. A liking for earlier jazz and classical music can also work that way. Of course, that's useful only when it suits the character, but it's something to think about.

:Guitar:

Torgo · Feb 17, 2012

Song titles, at least in the uk, are a somewhat murky area. Referring to singers is fine so long as you don't defame them.

lady_K · Feb 17, 2012

I had to get permission from the writers of the song. So I contacted the agency and they told me if I sold 100 copies, I'd have to pay them $1 a song, so I just too the lyrics out.

That's not always the case however. Some authors have asked permission to use lyrics, and because the song was older, they got the ok without having to pay anything.
hope that helps

KayEn78 · Feb 17, 2012

I've heard that it was okay to use song titles and artists/groups, but not lyrics. However, I've seen lyrices in some books, but with permission of course. However, I've seen people use entire lyrics to songs or snippets of lyrics for their fan fiction stories. That does not seem right at all, but people get away with it.

I once mentioned the 1949 Margaret Whiting song, Faraway Places in a story of mine by writing this sentence.

He snapped on the radio to find Margaret Whiting singing about faraway places with strange sounding names.

Is it possible to use less than eight words from a lyric and be okay or does it need to be removed and the sentence reworded differently or remove those six words of the song, even though they're part of the second itself? Thanks in advance!

-Kristi

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 18, 2012

Using titles of songs copyrighted in the US is absolutely without risk.

Use of songs & musicians in novel

scheherazade

Human

artemis31386

All around miscreant

TheRob1

Trained by the soft master

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

scheherazade

Human

Deleted member 42

seun

Horror Man

Shara

Fix it in the Rewrite

Nymtoc

Benefactor Member

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

lady_K

It's all about the F.A.M.I.L.Y :)

KayEn78

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago