What makes a best seller?

[DivaNicoletta]

Just wondering, what do you all think?

[emeraldcite]

Sadly, if anyone knew, we'd all be stinkin' rich.

Who knows...it might be a good book. Might be controversy. Might be celebrity.

If you watch the lists, you see mostly repeat offenders. People get comfortable. I think that makes most bestsellers.

Sometimes, you see someone slip onto the list. If they keep putting out pageturners, then they tend to continue to stay on that list.

I don't think there's a formula, just a lot of luck.

[Perks]

My name under the title.




Hmmm. Perhaps too much wine this evening.

[Ken Schneider]

A novel written with the most excellent skills in the craft of writing. The best of, plot, English skills, storytelling etc.

Plus, a novel that is in tune with what current readers want, and are reading.

Or, a gaggle of former novels with a loyal following.

IMHO

[DamaNegra]

It seems, nowadays, that controversy is a good key element to make a best-seller, or at least get loads of people to buy your book. Other than that, you have to write a page-turner and have a lot of luck. I guess.

[JA Konrath]

Units shipped, based on initial print run, based on pre-orders.

The NYT sends out a form to reporting bookstores, and the form is already preprinted with the top books. The bookseller simply must report how many are sold.

It's possible to know where you'll debut on the List several weeks before your book comes out.

There is also a space to write in other titles, but you can guess how often that happens.

LA Times has something similar. You may notice that bestselling authors all visit the same bookstores on their tours. These are the reporting stores.

You didn't really think it was based on the most copies sold, did you?

[alisonbruce]

You didn't really think it was based on the most copies sold, did you?

Next you'll be telling us there's no Santa.

Thank you anyway, I've always wondered.

[AdamH]

The audience. Initial orders may get a book on the bestseller list at first, but what keeps it there are the number of subsequent readers.

[blacbird]

Lots of people buy it.

caw.

[Mistook]

This is a tricky question because "best seller" doesn't necessarily mean "best written novel.'

But be that as it may, I think you have two kinds. There's your best seller, and then there's your runaway best seller. The ordinary variety of best seller is created by the unsolicited hype of several New York critics.

If you've managed to pique the interest of certain key people at publications like the New York Times, the New Yorker, and other such periodicals containing the words, "new" and "york" in their banner, then you can be sure to have a best seller on your hands.

Of course, to acheive that goal, you need to be hip, in a very ripe sort of coctail party way. Which of course means absolutely nothing. But it doesn't hurt to be well connected... at least as long as your connections stay connected. And as we all know, such things are subject to change without notice.

Well, okay, I'll level with you. It's all run by a small cabal of insanely rich Howard Hughes types who spend all afternoon in states of drug induced catatonia, burbling an occasional word or phrase. Most of it is unintelligible, but their underlings have a special system, based on the Kabbalah, which can turn the meaningless babble into something resembling dogma.

Like tachyons in a particle accelerator, each little literary dogma-zon only lasts for a fleeting instant, but if you are lucky enough to have something in the slush pile that vaguely relates to one, while it is in existance, you stand a good chance of being rejected. Which is much better than being ignored. Just ask any New Yorker.

And that's all there is to it!


Oh, yeah, and if you want to write a runaway best seller, just latch on to urban legend and aim for a folk audience. Never fails.

[Jamesaritchie]

Units shipped, based on initial print run, based on pre-orders.

The NYT sends out a form to reporting bookstores, and the form is already preprinted with the top books. The bookseller simply must report how many are sold.

It's possible to know where you'll debut on the List several weeks before your book comes out.

There is also a space to write in other titles, but you can guess how often that happens.

LA Times has something similar. You may notice that bestselling authors all visit the same bookstores on their tours. These are the reporting stores.

You didn't really think it was based on the most copies sold, did you?

It is based on number of copies sold. It's just that the copies need to be sold from specific locations in a specific time period, or by pre-publication orders. Books that aren't on the list turn into bestsellers with amazing regularity.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Lots of people buy it.

caw.

That's what I was going to say.

Sales. A lot of sales make for a best seller.

[James D. Macdonald]

The USA Today best seller list is based on BookScan (http://www.bookscan.com/about.html) information.

(BookScan is barcode scanning at the cash register at about 80% of US bookstores.)

[aghast]

Theres no formula or everyone would be doing it (but wait isnt it what genres are, the same formulas that guarantee sales?) But basically good stories with good characters that people enjoy reading. Now why some books sell ten million copies (like the da vinci code) while others (very well written books) sell only 10000 I dont know. I think some marketing has to do with that but mostly its just luck.

[gomi]

Units shipped, based on initial print run, based on pre-orders.

The NYT sends out a form to reporting bookstores, and the form is already preprinted with the top books. The bookseller simply must report how many are sold.

It's possible to know where you'll debut on the List several weeks before your book comes out.

There is also a space to write in other titles, but you can guess how often that happens.

LA Times has something similar. You may notice that bestselling authors all visit the same bookstores on their tours. These are the reporting stores.

You didn't really think it was based on the most copies sold, did you?

You're gonna make these folks very sad, JA..........

[pianoman5]

In another thread, an agent was reported to have written in his rejection note:

"Editors want books that appeal to low common denominators with respect to plot but are well-enough written to maintain a pace that holds the writer's attention."

Allowing for the Freudian slip (as one might imagine he meant "the reader's attention") this suggests that publishing industry professionals, whose livelihoods depend on picking the occasional best-seller, believe this is a winning formula.

It seems a reasonable assumption. Apparently, this is also what drives the movie business currently, where they're after much the same thing, giving it the name 'high concept'. By this they mean an appealing story that can be summarised in a shortish sentence.

e.g. In Hollywood-speak, Forrest Gump could be: 'Sincere but retarded try-hard makes good.'
If you wanted to inject a bit of pathos to add complexity, it could be:
'Sincere but retarded try-hard makes good, without making out.'

The advantage of such pithiness is that there's time to pitch your concept during the 25 seconds you share an elevator with a studio executive you've been stalking in the hope of manufacturing just such a opportunity.

It makes sense, in a way. When friends want to tell me about a book they've read and begin with a lengthy discourse on the setup, I can feel my eyes glazing over in less than 30 seconds. In a time-poor age, limited attention spans rule, so I can see why there's a demand for books/TV shows/movies based on a universally appealing premise that's evident and easy to describe.

That's why it's so important to be able to condense the essence of anything we write into easily digestible blurbs and synopses for inclusion in our queries to stand a chance of being read by the people who count.

[gomi]

The bottom line is, it's a crap shoot. Those few in the industry that know anything about quality storytelling and quality writing are NOT making the book buys. The marketing department buys books. You could write the perfect book, one everyone loved; the agent, the acqusitions editor, everyone. If the marketing department, most of whom wouldn't know a good book if it bit them on the ***, gives it the thumbs down, you are out of luck. As my friend JA so often says, for every 1 good book published, there are 10 mediocre ones. I would say he's being generous. I think it's more like 1:100.

The mid-list is dying, kids. The marketing department is why.

EJ

[mkcbunny]

Man, do we have a lot of depressing threads posting for the holidays.

[gomi]

Man, do we have a lot of depressing threads posting for the holidays.

Reality is often depressing.....................:cool:

EJ

[cleoauthor]

The answer should be: A cracking good story. Actually, the real honest-to-goodness answer seems to be an aggressive marketing strategy and a big advertising budget. Oh, dear, I fear I'm sounding a little jaded.

[gomi]

The answer should be: A cracking good story. Actually, the real honest-to-goodness answer seems to be an aggressive marketing strategy and a big advertising budget. Oh, dear, I fear I'm sounding a little jaded.

If you're a first time author, the aggressive marketing strategy and big-time advertising budget will have to come from you. Publishers today toss books into the pool at random and it's up to the author to do what h/she can to see they don't sink.

EJ

[Birol]

Oh, gomie, puh-lease. Where are you getting your information? There are two first-time novelists in my writing group whose books are coming out in 2006 and the facts that you state:

Those few in the industry that know anything about quality storytelling and quality writing are NOT making the book buys. The marketing department buys books.

Publishers today toss books into the pool at random and it's up to the author to do what h/she can to see they don't sink.

do not accurately reflect the way the process works at all. Would you please refrain from making such hyperbolic statements without supporting evidence?

[gomi]

Oh, gomie, puh-lease. Where are you getting your information? There are two first-time novelists in my writing group whose books are coming out in 2006 and the facts that you state:





do not accurately reflect the way the process works at all. Would you please refrain from making such hyperbolic statements without supporting evidence?

If you wish to believe that editors still buy books, well, more power to ya. The facts contradict it and the facts are out there if you care to go look for them. If an editor likes a book, they take it to the marketing department. If the marketing department can figure out where to 'place' it, and they think it will sell, you become a published author. It matters not if the book is good, bad, or somewhere in between. And, if you don't live up to their minimum sales figures, which are going higher all the time, they will drop you like a hot rock.

I'm not being negative or discouraging. I just find it helps to stay in touch with reality. Keeps me focused.

EJ

[KelseyF]

Don't forget Oprah. I was at work the other day (at Barnes and Noble), and overheard a woman picking up "Million Little Pieces" and saying "Well if Oprah likes it, I have to buy it." I suggested we put an "Oprah likes this" sticker on the $150 atlas that no one ever buys.

[gomi]

Yeah, well, your reality is quite a bit different than the reality I've encountered.

Well, I was referring to the book publishing industry reality. Which reality are you into?

EJ

[JA Konrath]

Editors don't buy books anymore. They don't have the power to say yes.

If an editor is interested in a book, it goes to the acquisitions meeting (which is called the ax meeting for a reason). Marketing, sales, accounting, and the editor's bosses and peers are there.

The editor has to show that the book she wants to buy will make money. Marketing will consider hooks, sales will look at prior sales by the author or in the genre, and accounting may even draw up a projected P&L statement.

Getting a yes is a committee decision.

When a book is acquired, a marketing budget is determined. The budget is usually determined by the print run, but it can go up or down depending on factors such as: lead titles released that period, other books by the author, number of titles released that period, if there is any exploitable marketing hooks, and others.

The marketing budget for new books often isn't very high--just enough for some ARCs to reviewers. And of course, reviewers don't review everything they receive.

If a publisher releases ten comparable titles in a quarter, each with an equal marketing budget, that sounds an awful lot like tossing the books into a pool and seeing which ones swim.

Only one out of five books earn out their advance. I have dozens of midlist author friends who are having problems selling their next book, because low numbers have followed them.

EJ is correct.

I just did a comprehensive blog about what an author can expect from their publisher, and vice versa.

I hope the first time novelists in your writer's group have an idea of what they are in for. Ads, marketing, booksignings, tours, and publicity don't sell books if the author is an unknown. I suggest they start figuring out how to market their books, to get higher than a 50% sell through, so they can get a second contract.

[Birol]

So what you're saying, gomi, in a multi-million dollar publishing corporation such as Random House or St. Martin's press headed by a CEO and a board of directors, all the real decisions about the way the business operates and the products it will manufacture are handled by the mid-level Marketing Director or even a Marketing Representative who reports to the mid-level Marketing Director? Why then do these successful businesses even have editors reading the slush pile? Would it not streamline the process to just send everything directly to the Marketing Department to review prior to accepting or rejecting manuscripts?

[JA Konrath]

Would it not streamline the process to just send everything directly to the Marketing Department to review prior to accepting or rejecting manuscripts?

I've talked candidly with industry professionals, and it goes beyond that. At some ax meetings, sales contacts the buyers at the major chains and pitches books that the publisher hasn't acquired yet, asking hypothetically how many they'd order.

Sales and marketing have a big say in what gets bought. And editors are very careful about what they bring to the ax meeting. They know that most of what they propose will be shot down (I've been told 4 out of 5.)

As for editors reading slush pile, I'm under the impression that the big houses don't even bother with unsolicited manuscripts, and that the slush pile is read by interns.

[Birol]

JA, I am not arguing the committee approach. It is a big business and in America, big business is run by committee. What made me roll my eyes was the idea that the marketing department has the final say and the only say that matters. Decision by committee is decision by committee, meaning everyone brings their insights and fields of expertise to the meeting to share.

The bottom line is, it's a crap shoot. Those few in the industry that know anything about quality storytelling and quality writing are NOT making the book buys. The marketing department buys books. You could write the perfect book, one everyone loved; the agent, the acqusitions editor, everyone. If the marketing department, most of whom wouldn't know a good book if it bit them on the ***, gives it the thumbs down, you are out of luck. As my friend JA so often says, for every 1 good book published, there are 10 mediocre ones. I would say he's being generous. I think it's more like 1:100.

The mid-list is dying, kids. The marketing department is why.

EJ

[Birol]

Additionally, there are lots of things a manuscript goes through before it reaches the committee stage. Discounting those parts of the process, well, I'm not seeing the logic in it.

[brokenfingers]

Well, I, for one, will refuse to get discouraged, because I know JA Konrath wrote 9 novels, received almost 500 rejections, and penned over 1 million words before he sold a thing--and I'm a lot more talented than that guy.

[JA Konrath]

Well, I, for one, will refuse to get discouraged, because I know JA Konrath wrote 9 novels, received almost 500 rejections, and penned over 1 million words before he sold a thing--and I'm a lot more talented than that guy.

hehe

[gomi]

Additionally, there are lots of things a manuscript goes through before it reaches the committee stage. Discounting those parts of the process, well, I'm not seeing the logic in it.

Thanks, JA. I was hoping you'd show up.

The logic is the bottom line. If the book can meet the bottom line or better, there is a next book. If not, back to the day job. Publishing is a business. Profit is the motive. That's why the marketing folks have so much power over what gets published and what doesn't. It's also the marketing folks that are killing the mid-list. But that's another subject.

As a first time author, you'll likely get squat for promotion or advertising. That's fallen to the author and if the author thinks that, once published, all they need worry about is writing the next book, well, again, back to the day job.

None of what I'm saying here is meant to discourage writers. It's just reality, like your favorite swimming hole full of swimmers might be reality on a hot day. If you're going to take a high dive into that hole, you want to know where the other swimmers are and how deep the hole is. Knowing those things shouldn't detract from taking the dive. Not knowing those things could ruin your day.

EJ

[gomi]

Well, I, for one, will refuse to get discouraged, because I know JA Konrath wrote 9 novels, received almost 500 rejections, and penned over 1 million words before he sold a thing--and I'm a lot more talented than that guy.

Yeah, persevering little sucker, ain't he...................:cool:

Good to see ya, JA.

EJ

[Cathy C]

Editors don't buy books anymore. They don't have the power to say yes.

If an editor is interested in a book, it goes to the acquisitions meeting (which is called the ax meeting for a reason). Marketing, sales, accounting, and the editor's bosses and peers are there.


This is a very broad, sweeping brush you're applying, JA. This is not the case at many publishing companies I'm familiar with -- at least in the romance/women's fiction genre (and I can't imagine that one particular genre would have a different set of rules within the same publisher). At both Tor and SMP, plus Pocket and Penguin, for example, the AE (acquisitions editor) chooses the books they want to buy, without anyone's say-so. Only if the book falls outside of the genres that they are "assigned" to must they seek higher-up approval. Now, the advance offered to the author definitely depends on marketing's thoughts (not approval, but input), but marketing doesn't determine whether or not to publish -- that's the editor's job.

The AE is absolutely required to prepare a cost analysis that includes cost to print, cost to edit (which is where your grammar/spelling really DO matter), cost to promote and cost of remainders/returns. Every publisher expects every book to break even after the advance. The hope is that they'll turn a profit. But the cost analysis is what tells the editor what they can offer for the book.

If you're a first time author, the aggressive marketing strategy and big-time advertising budget will have to come from you.

I guess I have to disagree with this. While it's true that a publisher will probably not spend a great deal of money on a marketing campaign to the general public for a brand new author (unless they expect it to be a break-out hit like Jonathan Strange or Lovely Bones - both of which were by newbie authors) the truth is that a publisher spends a great deal of money on every single book in their line -- anywhere from $3,000-10,000 per title, marketing them to the distributors/wholesalers/booksellers. If a publisher can spend money at this level, then the book will wind up in the stores where readers can see the book. If the book is available at both WalMart and Waldenbooks (for example), and the bookstore manager pumps it up, the book will sell. Cover art is a HUGE factor in this, as is a good logline or back cover blurb. Yes, this is part of marketing, but has nothing to do with whether the book gets bought.

Even if the author doesn't do one single thing additional to sell the title, it might still hit the list.

Now, I happen to be a FAN of doing some of my own marketing. I know that Tor will aggressively market the line I'm in. I know that the Tor/Forge name is recognized by the general public for quality SF/fantasy. But I want my book to stand out from the line, so I'm willing to spend some of my advance to market. Others choose not to do a darned thing, and they can sell as well or better than my book.

I do agree that making the lists starts long before the general public sees the book. While the USA Today and BookScan lists are ranked by "point of sale" purchases by the public, the NYT list, Publisher's Weekly and BookList lists are NOT. These lists are based on "orders", from the publisher to the bookstore, which is why you can have a book make the list before it's even released to the public (think Harry Potter).

To make these lists, the publicity/marketing department's excitement about the book is useful to getting "buzz" going about the book. But marketing doesn't decide the books to buy -- at least at the publishers I'm familiar with.

[gomi]

*said a lot of stuff.*

Good luck.

EJ

[aghast]

Good luck.

EJ

Snide arent we? Cathy happend to be a multipublished author with a big house. And how many novels have you published gomi? Maybe she shoudl be the one who said good luck. The fact is publishers publish books to sell and make profit and it makes absolutely no sense that they would just dump a book out and make no effort selling and marketing it, even for first time authors, who may not get hundreds of thousands of promotion budget but definitely not nothing. I cant see how a company would put out a product without marketing or promoting it.

[gomi]

Snide arent we? Cathy happend to be a multipublished author with a big house. And how many novels have you published gomi? Maybe she shoudl be the one who said good luck. The fact is publishers publish books to sell and make profit and it makes absolutely no sense that they would just dump a book out and make no effort selling and marketing it, even for first time authors, who may not get hundreds of thousands of promotion budget but definitely not nothing. I cant see how a company would put out a product without marketing or promoting it.

I never said it made sense. Much of what the publishing industry is doing doesn't make sense. Doesn't mean they aren't doing it. As JA pointed out, you might get some money for ARCs. Beyond that, wish in one hand.... The money goes to the big names, not the first time authors. If they get anything, they get what's left over.

If an author manages to get published and then expects to sit back and do little or nothing to promote their own book, that's fine with me.

As for publishing, been there, done that, will be there again soon.

EJ

[scribbler1382]

If everytime someone posts their experience someone shouts them down because their experience/understanding differs, pretty soon no one will be posting. I don't think anyone who posts an experience is trying to say that's the ONLY way things happen. They're just saying that's how it happened for them. Maybe instead of trying to correct everyone we could just say thank you. Just a thought.

[gomi]

If everytime someone posts their experience someone shouts them down because their experience/understanding differs, pretty soon no one will be posting. I don't think anyone who posts an experience is trying to say that's the ONLY way things happen. They're just saying that's how it happened for them. Maybe instead of trying to correct everyone we could just say thank you. Just a thought.

I would completely agree with this. I wish I would have known half the stuff JA talks about when I first started making the rounds. It would have saved me a lot of heartache and grief.

EJ

[aghast]

If an author manages to get published and then expects to sit back and do little or nothing to promote their own book, that's fine with me.


Nobody is saying that, but you were the one saying that first-time authors dont get any marketing which is false, and they dont just get ARCs and thats it. Many have already contradicted your claim based on their experiences as published authors. I still dont know what you have publisheed. And Scribbler, its okay to voice differen opinions but when someone presents something as facts like gomi we need some verification but gomi still hasnt said how he or she knows, just "been there, done that" doesn't work. At least I know Cathy is published with Tor many times so I am more inclined to believe her words than someone who claims to know the fact but wont devulge any credits, especially someone who is childish to say something like "*said a lot of stuff* Good luck."

[gomi]

Nobody is saying that, but you were the one saying that first-time authors dont get any marketing which is false, and they dont just get ARCs and thats it. Many have already contradicted your claim based on their experiences as published authors. I still dont know what you have publisheed. And Scribbler, its okay to voice differen opinions but when someone presents something as facts like gomi we need some verification but gomi still hasnt said how he or she knows, just "been there, done that" doesn't work. At least I know Cathy is published with Tor many times so I am more inclined to believe her words than someone who claims to know the fact but wont devulge any credits, especially someone who is childish to say something like "*said a lot of stuff* Good luck."

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. Frankly, I don't care how you approach publishing. If you care to believe that if you get published, the publisher is just gonna swing open the vault to advertise and promote your book, more power to ya.

As far as who's words I would choose to listen to? Well, and I mean absolutely no offense to Cathy, but before I came on this board I had never heard of her or her books nor ever noticed them in any bookstore I've ever been in and I all but live in book stores.

JA Konrath, on the other hand, well, I see his stuff in every bookstore I go in from small indy to big chain, usually face out on the shelf, his new one still on that little table near the front door. I know he's done his research, it's rock solid, and I've followed his lead and done my own and pretty much found just what he has found. You choose what you want to choose.

EJ

[September skies]

I'll let you all know when my book hits the best-seller list. But it may be awhile since I haven't even written it yet.

[Cathy C]

Well, and I mean absolutely no offense to Cathy, but before I came on this board I had never heard of her or her books nor ever noticed them in any bookstore I've ever been in and I all but live in book stores.


No offense taken. You'd have to be in the romance aisle to find our books, and look alphabetically for my co-author's name, C.T. Adams. But that's okay. You don't have to have heard of me. I've never heard of Mr. Konrath. Different genres for different folks, and all that... But I can assure you that MY research is solid, too. ;)

[Good Word]

Gomi,

It sounds like you have some decent experience, or at least an interesting perspective. But when you bring your thoughts and opinions here, it would be great if you brought good manners, too.

[eskkar]

If you really want to know about bestsellers, including comments from agents, authors, publishers, and booksellers, all of whom have been involved with bestsellers, then I'd recommend this book:
"The Making Of A Bestseller," by Brian Hill and Dee Power.

It provides a lot of 'insider' type of information, including the odds of a first time author actually making the bestseller list.

eskkar

[gomi]

Gomi,

It sounds like you have some decent experience, or at least an interesting perspective. But when you bring your thoughts and opinions here, it would be great if you brought good manners, too.

I guess I'm not exactly sure at what point my manners failed to please.

EJ

[Roger J Carlson]

If you really want to know about bestsellers, including comments from agents, authors, publishers, and booksellers, all of whom have been involved with bestsellers, then I'd recommend this book:
"The Making Of A Bestseller," by Brian Hill and Dee Power.

It provides a lot of 'insider' type of information, including the odds of a first time author actually making the bestseller list.

eskkarDonald Maase believes he knows what makes a bestseller (or what he calls a "break out" novel. He's written about it in his book "Writing the Break Out Novel" and its companion workbook.

However, I don't think anyone really knows what makes a bestseller (at least until AFTER it becomes one -- then everybody has an opinion). What Maase has done is compare very successful books and found the things they have in common. The danger with that is it isn't really a predictor of future bestsellers, just what made bestsellers in the past. Times and tastes change.

Now, what makes a "good" or "well-written" book is a little more universal, but there are a lot of good and well-written books that never became bestsellers.

Question for the group: Is that what we're doing this for? To write bestsellers? If so, most of us will be deeply disappointed.

[Roger J Carlson]

If you want to read a really depressing book about the publishing industry, try "How Precious Was That While" by Piers Anthony. If you do, take it with a grain of salt. It's only one man's perspective. He's got nothing much good to say about anyone in the industry, including publishers who made him a millionaire.

Contrast that to Isaac Asimov who never had an agent, always signed the boilerplate contract, and thought everyone in the industry were swell. He became a millionaire from his writing as well.

[eskkar]

Roger is right! Nobody really knows what makes a bestseller, and the mystery changes from year to year. My comments and recommendation to read "The Making Of A Bestseller," were to provide background information about bestsellers, not a how-to suggestions.

Actually, if anyone knew how to write a bestseller, there would probably be only 50 authors, cranking out bestseller after bestseller, and there wouldn't be any need for new authors. I think if you sit down and try to write a bestseller, you're making a big mistake, since that depends on what people and publishers will be reading and producing three years down the road, which is a pretty tough call.

I'm not familiar with Donald Masse's book, so I can't comment on that. I do think Roger is also right in that you should just write the story you want to tell, and write it as well as you can. The rest is up to the reading public.

eskkar

[blacbird]

Actually, if anyone knew how to write a bestseller, there would probably be only 50 authors, cranking out bestseller after bestseller, and there wouldn't be any need for new authors.

Exactly the Brave New World the marketing gurus in the publishing world are aiming for. They probably won't get there, but they sure will make it miserable on those of us outside the favored 50 until they fail so badly they all go into selling fraudulent securities.

caw.

[emeraldcite]

We can look at best sellers and talk about what they have in common. If we could read a manual and write a bestseller, then you'd see more newbies on the bestseller list weekly. But if you watch the bestseller list (http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/bestseller/), it's the same eight people every week. They rotate. It's like the popular clique in high school, but full of book geeks.

[eskkar]

Yes, didn't you just hate those popular cliques back then. And now we have the Big 15 Authors Clique. Now if we could only find some way to join...

eskkar

[aghast]

Da Vinci Code has been on the best seller list for more than two years, they say look for more similar stories to hit the stories in near future, I think publishing has become the nxt Hollywood.

[Dawno]

We can look at best sellers and talk about what they have in common. If we could read a manual and write a bestseller, then you'd see more newbies on the bestseller list weekly. But if you watch the bestseller list (http://www.nytimes.com/pages/books/bestseller/), it's the same eight people every week. They rotate. It's like the popular clique in high school, but full of book geeks.

They can't all live forever...

[Cathy C]

They can't all live forever...


:ROFL:
Sorry, Dawno -- I'm not laughing at you. But I just yesterday received a postcard in the mail that made me scream out loud in the car. As a member of SWFA, I often get postcards advertising new books, but this one takes the cake.

The Road to Dune
Frank Herbert, Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson
"The Companion Book to the Bestsellers"

Here's the actual blurbs of what it includes:

*Never-before-published chapters, deleted scenes and alternate endings for Dune and Dune Messiah.

*Correspondence and rejection letters chronicling Frank Herbert's struggle to find a publisher.

*Four Dune short stories by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, collected here for the first time.

So, in effect, people are going to pay hardback prices for editing cuts, endings Frank Herbert decided NOT to use and REJECTION LETTERS! :eek: OMG! Talk about beating a dead horse! :horse:

I guess all I have to say is: Keep your rejection letters, folks. Hit it big and you can publish them!

Sheesh... :mad:

[gomi]

They can't all live forever...

Except that being dead doesn't mean much in the book publishing world. Look at Ludlum. He's been dead since 01 and is still publishing books.....................:cool:

EJ

[Roger J Carlson]

Except that being dead doesn't mean much in the book publishing world. Look at Ludlum. He's been dead since 01 and is still publishing books.....................:cool:

EJNot to mention L. Ron Hubbard! He's still writing new books.

[scarletpeaches]

Virginia Andrews, Harold Robbins, Catherine Cookson...

[emeraldcite]

They can't all live forever...

I agree, but some newbie will slide in and take the place of one of the other dinosaurs.

When King goes, I'm sure there will be someone to take his place on the board. But it's always the same people over and over.