Last Dance with Mary Sue...

Escape Artist · Feb 10, 2012

I was on AW yesterday, reading a thread about Mary Sues and what they are, how to spot them, etc. and well, I hate to admit it, but I have a Mary Sue on my hands. I'm so ashamed!!! :e2paperba

Anyway, this character is actually a he, but still. Everyone loves him or is on the fast track to loving him, because how can they not? :thankyou:

Anything bad that happens is not his fault, and even if he does throw a pity party :e2violin:

and blame himself, another character steps up to the plate to assure him of his innocence.

He's too special, :2angel:

too unique to really fit into any world, though every world tries its darnedest to find a place for him, bending and contorting itself just to accommodate him.

Other characters bow to his obvious greatness, even otherwise strong characters, :Hail:

even characters who start out hating him. :rant:

As embarrassing as it is to admit that I made a Mary Sue, it feels good to get it off my chest. Now, after giving him a fair head start, I'm sending a mob to kill his ass.

:mob

RIP, Mary Sue

P.S. - I've got mad love for the smileys today...

Devil Ledbetter · Feb 10, 2012

Murder your darlings, especially if they are Mary Sues.

Or at least make things a lot harder on them.

Maxinquaye · Feb 10, 2012

Introduce a new character that challenge his saintliness, and make him squirm.

heza · Feb 10, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
Murder your darlings, especially if they are Mary Sues.

No jury in the land would convict you.

Buffysquirrel · Feb 10, 2012

I think the 'everybody loves him' is the worst issue. Heck, not even everybody loves me!

*irony alert*

heza · Feb 10, 2012

Maxinquaye said:
Introduce a new character that challenge his saintliness, and make him squirm.

Also, can you modify any of the bad things that happen to him so that he makes decisions that put him in harm's way, or can you make aspects of his saintliness liabilities that invite trouble?

Example: If he's lawful-good, give him a decision to make in the gray area, where there are consequences on either side of the line.

Or if he's neutral-good, pit him against legalities he has to skirt for his beliefs. Make him deal with the consequences.

And, whether he's readily embraced by all these different groups, there's always going to be that mob mentality that secretly wants to see the hero fall--use it to make his life less pleasant.

And remember, the bigger the hero, the bigger the obstacles he has to face.

QuantumIguana · Feb 10, 2012

If you make things too hard for them, then you get something where "no one had ever suffered like Mary Sue suffered..."

Forcing the characters to make a choice can do a couple things. It can make the character discover who he or she really is, or can reveal to the reader what the character is really like.

Brickcommajason · Feb 10, 2012

You can get a lot of mileage by turning that saintliness and popularity into arrogance, solipsism and a sense of entitlement. That's how somebody like that would naturally approach the world...

QuantumIguana · Feb 10, 2012

I don't think you need to go overboard with negative traits to make a character interesting. Simply not being an expert on everything makes a character more human. A character who knows everything and is good at everything isn't very believable, and makes everyone else redundant.

If you have to cross a river, and out of the blue, it is revealed that your character knows how to make a dugout canoe, that is just a little bit too convenient.

The character does not need to have infinite awareness, blind spots can be good, everyone misses some details.

Escape Artist · Feb 10, 2012

Devil Ledbetter said:
Murder your darlings, especially if they are Mary Sues.

Or at least make things a lot harder on them.

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking of murdering him because it seems that no matter how many ways I try to re-imagine him, he's still basically the same guy. And the thing is, I have tried to make things harder on him and gone too far in the opposite direction, as someone else pointed out - the whole "no one had ever suffered like Mary Sue had" - and then he just mopes about it and beats himself up and never really DOES anything about his situation. He just takes the shit life throws at him and sobs about it. I swear he likes being miserable. Even when things go his way and he gets the things he claims to want so badly, he won't allow himself to enjoy them. Of course, I'd love to save the guy if I can, but right now he's walking the plank and I'm prodding him with a stick!

Do you think simply having another character come along and call him out on how self-absorbed he is will do the trick?

scottprotege · Feb 10, 2012

I have the opposite problem. Sometimes I feel my MC needs to catch a break. Tomorrow I will throw her a bone, maybe let her see some family members she was torn away from when she was ordained to council.

AJ Valliant · Feb 10, 2012

How far along in the process are you? Could you not just rewrite his earlier appearances and develop the character along more plausible lines?

Little Ming · Feb 10, 2012

Admitting you have a problem is the first step....

Escape Artist said:
...

Do you think simply having another character come along and call him out on how self-absorbed he is will do the trick?

Depends. Do you really need this character? Is it better to delete one character? Or to create another character to challenge him? And which will make your story better?

Anjasa · Feb 10, 2012

Ahh, wish fulfillment characters.

It's sad how often the points in your first post could be applied to popular characters :x

Escape Artist · Feb 10, 2012

Little Ming said:
Admitting you have a problem is the first step....

Depends. Do you really need this character? Is it better to delete one character? Or to create another character to challenge him? And which will make your story better?

Honestly, my gut is telling me he needs to get the ax and that he's not necessary at all and that he's not even redeemable - at least not at the skill level I'm at right now. I've just been trying to hold onto him and make him fit somewhere because I luvs him so much. :e2cry:

In an earlier version of the story I'm working on now, another character killed him. Methinks she was trying to tell me something. :e2smack:

mirandashell · Feb 10, 2012

If it's what your gut is telling you, kill him. You and he will feel better for it.

But I know how you feel. I once wrote a scene I loved. It was witty and comical and filled out one of my characters really well. But then I started the next draft and by the time I got to that scene.... it didn't fit. And I procastinated for days and then sat at my puter, held my finger over the delete button..... and killed it. And it hurt.

But seriously, you have to do what's right for your story.

Domino Derval · Feb 10, 2012

At the least, I do want to commend you for not using the term "Gary Stu." Down with the male default!

cara · Feb 11, 2012

I'd say definitely get rid of the character. Mary Sues have very little appeal to most audiences, so maybe try for an opposite character? It might be fun to write one

contrariwise · Feb 11, 2012

Don't feel guilty. Wish fulfillment is a common reason to write and then the Mary Sues start coming out. If it makes you happy, keep writing that story for your own pleasure and save your other characters for any writing that will have an audience.

Although there is a cure for a Mary Sue. Make the villain even Mary Sue-ier.

Anjasa · Feb 11, 2012

Domino Derval said:
At the least, I do want to commend you for not using the term "Gary Stu." Down with the male default!

Too bad one of the few female defaults is so negative

Tepelus · Feb 11, 2012

I just want to say, every time I see this thread's title, that song from Tom Petty plays in my head.

Last Dance with Mary Sue...

Escape Artist

Plotting her escape...

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer

heza

Buffysquirrel

heza

QuantumIguana

Brickcommajason

QuantumIguana

Escape Artist

Plotting her escape...

scottprotege

AJ Valliant

Little Ming

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!

Escape Artist

Plotting her escape...

mirandashell

Domino Derval

FREAKING OUT!

cara

contrariwise

The hours passing

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!

Tepelus

And so...