loss for words?

Lenny Jennison · Feb 8, 2012

I am curious if other's have found that they have pretty much written the complete story and yet, they remain only 1/2 way through the average word count.

I have almost written everything that i plan to put in the book, and i will find myself (at this point) about halfway (only 40k words).

I have twisted the story in all directions and added more conflict to the main story. I am even writing sub plots.

Any tips?

any tips on creating more drama with an existing plot? As i mentioned before. I have more twists than a roller coaster!

Jolly-Boo · Feb 8, 2012

From what I remember, your book was about 35k. I haven't read the query in a while. For a 35k book, I'm suprised that you'd have many subplots, and twists. But if you can't put more in, don't force it. That is the natural lenght of the book. If that doesn't satisfy you, then write something else. You'll only make it worse by adding things that weren't supposed to be there to begin with.

My book was at one poin onjly 68k; at first draft. But then I expanded it to 92k, not because I just wanted to put things in, but because I thought some character wasn't explored enough, a battle wasn't long enough or a conflict needed more build up and the villain needed more screen time. If you can think of those type of problems - that are relevant - put them in.

Hansey · Feb 8, 2012

I agree with what Jolly-Boo said. Don't add words just for the sake of adding words. If your story is told in 40k, then that's it. You may be able to expand it some in revision by polishing up some scenes or exploring character development, but trying to get 80k out of a story that's basically told in 40k is probably not going to work.

My first draft came in at 78k, when I was hoping for somewhere between 90-100. I'm a short way into revision and am up to 81,500, and expect to end up somewhere between 85-90k when all is said and done (as I already am aware of several places that will absolutely be improved by adding to them). It's a wide estimate for me though, because I'm also cutting a lot while revising as well.

By the time I've finished revising, the word count will be what it will be. I'm more interested in the story and characters being solid than I am about reaching a magical number.

jeffo20 · Feb 8, 2012

My first run-through on my WiP came out to about 44K when I got to a point that felt like an end. That was enough for me to get the most basic elements of the story down, but it was too thin. Fortunately for me I had more ideas in my head that allowed me to expand the story, add in a subplot or two, and flesh out the characters and scenes more (plus, the ending as written didn't really satisfy me; I changed and expanded the story off of that).

The thing is, I knew the story was bigger than what I had written originally, and I had those ideas circling around in my head. It doesn't sound like your situation at all. As the others have said, don't force it, don't add words just to add words, but take a look at the story and see if there are legitimate places to add things. Good luck.

bearilou · Feb 8, 2012

Lenny, you may be served to get a beta or three to look at it and see if you're rushing things. If you have a plot and "have more twists than a roller coaster!" it may be that you're moving too quickly through your story and should slow down a bit.

Someone who's read it beginning to end can tell you that.

Tepelus · Feb 8, 2012

My problem is the opposite, my work just keeps on going, and going, and going...

quicklime · Feb 8, 2012

Jolly-Boo said:
From what I remember, your book was about 35k. I haven't read the query in a while. For a 35k book, I'm suprised that you'd have many subplots, and twists. But if you can't put more in, don't force it. That is the natural lenght of the book.

this.

as another option to consider though, are your scenes all tell?

Harry was angry. He walked upstairs. Manuel was fine at first, but as Harry began his rant, Manuel became very angry too--he wasn't sleeping with Harry's wife. Harry punched Manuel, and they fought. When Harry began to lose, he pulled a gun and shot Manuel. Manuel died, and Harry ran away.

that should probably (in most cases...ultimately it depends on the needs of the book and what you wish to communicate) be several pages worth, between description and dialogue. Instead it is written as a "laundry list" of events that transpired and a single paragraph of "this happened, then that, followed by this other thing..."

are you sure you aren't doing that?

Leanna · Feb 8, 2012

Hi Lenny,
A second to the question of how much you're telling vs showing. When I started building dialogue my story improved by at least 60% and I started to have alot more fun writing. When you're having fun, hours fly by and next thing you know you've written five pages of pretty decent stuff.

Secondly, have you really developed your characters and then - as one article suggested - "let them play"? Here's two fantastic articles I found on character development - [FONT=&quot]http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/creating-the-backstory-for-your-screenplay.html and [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]http://www.movieoutline.com/articles/writing-characters-using-conflict-and-backstory.html[/FONT]

Once your characters are well developed, they do more and you can see new directions the story can take.

BethS · Feb 8, 2012

Tepelus said:
My problem is the opposite, my work just keeps on going, and going, and going...

Yeah, this...

Grunkins · Feb 8, 2012

My first draft of my current WIP (a first novel) is going to come up pretty short, I'm guessing somewhere around 65ish thousand words. I'm at roughly 35k now. But it has very little description, not a lot of dialogue, ill-defined characters, relatively subplotless, and no authorial voice whatsoever.

I'm not an outliner, so this first draft is essentially a really wordy outline from which I'll organize the story I want to tell. The second draft, I'm guessing, will end up around 90ish thousand words.

ladyleeona · Feb 8, 2012

Whenever I've got a particularly thin scene, it's usually because there isn't much description going on, or I've 'told' the whole thing.

Showing the emotions, etc. will bulk things up pretty quick like.

Lenny Jennison · Feb 8, 2012

Jolly-Boo said:
From what I remember, your book was about 35k.

Honestly, that premise (and word count) was based on what i already knew at that point. I have since added more conflict and twists within the story line. I am really curious though: how many twists become too much.

From reading other people's threads i have come up with a few notations that i am sure will be said later in this thread:

1. word counts don't matter. Tell your story and if it is strong enough, you will find the right amount of words.

2. how many plot twists are too much, will be determined when you can not write them as great as they should be. More simply, if you write them well enough, the number is up to you the author.

3. Read more books like the story you want to tell; learn from those, what works and what does not.

Lol, yeah i know. I am about to run out and buy James Patterson's new book, Fang. This series is great when making a fictional seem as real as possible.

I was curious of ideas and tricks other writers found useful OUTSIDE of the normal recommendations (like i listed).

Thanks

randi.lee · Feb 8, 2012

Have you tapped into the five senses? Use imagery to describe the taste, feel, smell, sound & sight of select scenes. Don't overdo it or it'll slow the action down, but sprinkling in the senses here and there will help the reader feel "in the moment" and should help (won't completely fix) word count.

Lenny Jennison · Feb 8, 2012

bearilou said:
Lenny, you may be served to get a beta or three.

That sounds like a good idea. I need to write some of the important parts that i have avoided up to this point. I guess i am just feeling like this isn't as "far" along as it should be at this point. I will add those parts and flesh the characters out more. One problem that i am not sure about, is that i tend to write only what is important in the scene. Should i be focusing more on surroundings as well?

I do write the details of the scene if they are important to the story.

As I have mentioned before, i will be reading a couple books that have recently come out in this general theme. I will pay close attention to the way they write their dialogue and action scenes.

I did notice that James Patterson used a lot of tag lines in his dialogue of his latest book.

I know him being a well published author, we grant him more freedoms than me. I just found this interesting as i read the chapter i read.

Lenny Jennison · Feb 8, 2012

quicklime said:
Harry was angry. He walked upstairs. Manuel was fine at first, but as Harry began his rant, Manuel became very angry too--he wasn't sleeping with Harry's wife. Harry punched Manuel, and they fought. When Harry began to lose, he pulled a gun and shot Manuel. Manuel died, and Harry ran away.

Yes, that would be entirely too awkward of a scene in my opinion. My style is more like this:

He walked around the room, scanning for the evidence. He knew it had to be here, but where? The lady had mentioned that the man flew into the bank and demanded the money. Larry could see the path the robber would have taken. The path was not the most effective, but he had chosen it anyway. Why would he have used that path, when there were better ways of getting the money?

something like that is how i normally tend to write. Please critique that as well, if you think this will help me.

blacbird · Feb 8, 2012

Loss for words? Never. I always overwrite.

My major problem is a loss for the order in which all those words should be arranged.

caw

Jolly-Boo · Feb 9, 2012

Lenny Jennison said:
Honestly, that premise (and word count) was based on what i already knew at that point. I have since added more conflict and twists within the story line. I am really curious though: how many twists become too much.

Have you seen the 2011 movie, The Adventures of Tintin, or whatever it's called? Though not a movie about twists, it was extremely fast-phased. There wasn't a time to breath. There was always someone talking, some adventure music playing and so. Do the twists in your story do that? Do they simply not relax. Do the people not have normal conversations, without any major tension.

Lenny Jennison said:
1. word counts don't matter. Tell your story and if it is strong enough, you will find the right amount of words

Except a 35k book is a middle-grade book, or children's book - or a very wordy picture book, idk.

Lenny Jennison said:
2. how many plot twists are too much, will be determined when you can not write them as great as they should be. More simply, if you write them well enough, the number is up to you the author.

Number of plot twists? That sounds very wrong. And it sounds like somethig you are actually numbering or something.

I don't know if you like Lord of the Rings or not, but that's basically the most straightforward book I know. Sure, there's Gollum, and there's a suprise enemy in the shadows, but the goal is always clear. Go kill those guys, kill that guy, kill that flying beast.

Just don't confuse!

My book, despite structured as a standalone, is part of a series of books, with an end in mind, all that's been on my mind for five years. And since a first-time novel should be below 120k, is it that. And it is what I feel is needed for the story. The sequel, and I can already tell it in my mind with what I've planned, would it ever be written, would be about 500-600 pages. I guess that'd be 250k or something.

zegota · Feb 9, 2012

If you're looking for words, take some of mine. I have way too goddamn many.

Bubastes · Feb 9, 2012

These are just my knee-jerk personal reactions, so take them for what they're worth:

Lenny Jennison said:
He walked around the room, scanning for the evidence.What did the room look like? Where did he walk? Where did he look? He knew it had to be here, but where? How does he know this? What tips him off?The lady had mentioned that the man flew into the bank and demanded the money. Larry could see the path the robber would have taken. Describe the path.The path was not the most effective Why? How does he know that?, but he had chosen it anyway. Why would he have used that path, when there were better ways of getting the money? Why? What's the better way, and why is it better?

Right now, you're skimming the surface. Dig deeper and you'll get more words as well as make the story more interesting. Good luck!

loss for words?

Lenny Jennison

Jolly-Boo

Please, call me Boo

Hansey

She who distributes the cookies

jeffo20

Tyrant King

bearilou

DenturePunk writer

Tepelus

And so...

quicklime

all out of fucks to give

Leanna

BethS

Grunkins

Grand adventurer of the couch

ladyleeona

fluently sarcastic grandma offender

Lenny Jennison

randi.lee

Certified Non-Genius

Lenny Jennison

Lenny Jennison

blacbird

Jolly-Boo

Please, call me Boo

zegota

Fantastic!

Bubastes

bananaed