Beta Reader, Expert or Other?

CrastersBabies · Feb 7, 2012

I'm writing a Medieval epic fantasy and while I understand that the world IS as I decide to make it, there are some things that I would like to keep in the flavor of the Northern European medieval era.

None of my beta readers or members of my writing group are experts in medieval goodness. I'm wondering if anyone out there has ever hired a professional to read your manuscript for historical accuracy (or as much as is needed for the story to work given that it is a fantasy).

So far, I've done the research myself with excellent recommendations from the "expertise" section of the board. But, I do second guess myself.

I'm wondering if people in this same situation have found beta readers who have that expertise, or, if they've actually gone out and hired someone to help you button down what you've researched so far.

How do you verify your own research? Do you ever reach a point where you're wondering, "wow, am I really portraying this as accurately as possible (within reason for the fantastic setting)?"

Ideas? Thoughts?

(If this needs to be moved to expertise, I understand)

gothicangel · Feb 7, 2012

I posted a similar question down in Historicals a few weeks ago.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232363

I'm taking a degree in Classical Studies, I'm still nervous about accuracy. The advice I received was to approach my local university [who teach Roman Studies] and ask whether anyone would read it. I would be happy to pay too.

HapiSofi · Feb 7, 2012

CrastersBabies said:
None of my beta readers or members of my writing group are experts in medieval goodness. I'm wondering if anyone out there has ever hired a professional to read your manuscript for historical accuracy (or as much as is needed for the story to work given that it is a fantasy).

With all due respect, and extra respect on top of that, the concept of "historical accuracy (or as much as is needed for the story to work given that it is a fantasy" sets my teeth on edge. Medieval fantasy needs logical history as much as any other kind of historical fiction. It frequently doesn't get it, but that's a flaw, not a literary convention.

heza · Feb 7, 2012

HapiSofi said:
With all due respect, and extra respect on top of that, the concept of "historical accuracy (or as much as is needed for the story to work given that it is a fantasy" sets my teeth on edge. Medieval fantasy needs logical history as much as any other kind of historical fiction. It frequently doesn't get it, but that's a flaw, not a literary convention.

Can you talk more about this? I'm writing an historical fantasy--not medieval, but obviously not modern. Do you mean that if you're writing in a fantasy world reminiscent of medieval Europe that it must be historically accurate in the same way an actual historical narrative should be--i.e., no anachronisms can be present. Or are you saying that a "medieval" fantasy world should have it's own logical history, sufficiently built so that any anachronisms with real world history are explained and believable?

For instance, could my Magical Kingdom of Alenthai have a printing press? What if I explained how one was developed and it was important to the story?

SRHowen · Feb 7, 2012

It is FANTASY, and while you may want some details to be historically correct, it is a new world created by you the author.

There are going ot be fantastical things that did not happen in history, so any detail that is not perfect, will be seen as part of that fantasy.

Otherwise it would be called a historical not fantasy.

I've studied a great deal of that time period (SCA) and at any given fest you have the "barbarians" who come in from the country dressed like a fantasy novel character.

While accuracy is to be admired, don't lose sight of the fantasy element that's what makes a fantasy novel fun, the what if element in it. (what if Merlin did exist?)

And if you have done research and have things as close to the real time period, why are you doubting? You could ask a person from a local chapter of the SCA to read it as a beta, they would be an expert in a lot of things physical and the life style, now if you want historical events checked for accuracy, the internet and your local library are good sources for that.

SRHowen · Feb 7, 2012

heza said:
Can you talk more about this? I'm writing an historical fantasy--not medieval, but obviously not modern. Do you mean that if you're writing in a fantasy world reminiscent of medieval Europe that it must be historically accurate in the same way an actual historical narrative should be--i.e., no anachronisms can be present. Or are you saying that a "medieval" fantasy world should have it's own logical history, sufficiently built so that any anachronisms with real world history are explained and believable?

Not just NO, but HELL NO. Game of Thrones anyone?

For instance, could my Magical Kingdom of Alenthai have a printing press? What if I explained how one was developed and it was important to the story?

It is fantasy, it is your story, as long as it works go for it.

Karen Junker · Feb 7, 2012

I think it's really hard to be completely accurate in a medieval period setting!

I would second the idea of finding an SCA player to beta -- although the SCA covers a few hundred years and you'd have to find someone who had done a lot of research about your intended period.

CrastersBabies · Feb 7, 2012

I get the fantasy part, totally. I'm not talking about getting my history correct (that's mine to build) or my pantheon of gods, how worship happens, the mythology of the world and so forth. I guess the devil is in the details.

Mostly it's stuff like, "okay, how does this weapon (used in the medieval era) work? Look, sound, feel? Is my castle "structure" sound? Does my map of my city make sense? Where would the water source(s) be? How would the walls be built? Would it make sense for X_servants to sleep HERE or THERE?" Yeah, on some things I can pick and choose, but I also want it to make as much sense as possible.

Research is great and it's been helpful, but executing that material into a believable manner, that's where I doubt myself.

SRHowen · Feb 7, 2012

That is one thing the SCA can help you with, join a chapter and you can learn exactly what weapons sound like, how they work what they look like, if it is a good group.

They recreate a time period, not a historical event--though some do that as well. They often make their own weapons etc.

Call a local group tell them you are a writer and could you come and watch at a few meetings. We do ours in costume, and often stage sword fights in the park. It draws quite a crowd.

DK books has a very good book on castles--lots of nifty pictures that explain and show every detail.

Lots of sources out there.

gothicangel · Feb 8, 2012

CrastersBabies said:
Mostly it's stuff like, "okay, how does this weapon (used in the medieval era) work? Look, sound, feel? Is my castle "structure" sound? Does my map of my city make sense? Where would the water source(s) be? How would the walls be built? Would it make sense for X_servants to sleep HERE or THERE?" Yeah, on some things I can pick and choose, but I also want it to make as much sense as possible.

Research is great and it's been helpful, but executing that material into a believable manner, that's where I doubt myself.

I sympathise. I suppose those of us who live in Europe take this for grant. A few weeks ago, I was editing a chapter set in Roman Corbridge, and wanted to fact check, and it was just a case of grabbing my English Heritage membership, and driving 30 minutes into Corbridge. Problem solved.

*As it turned out, if I hadn't I would have screwed up royalally. The research I had done was for the vicis that wasn't built during my WIP, they had just began pulling down the ramparts! Red faces all round.

Could you maybe check out some British writers? Maybe Ken Follet or Robyn Young who are really good at establishing era?

SRHowen · Feb 8, 2012

I lived in Germany for almost 5 years, visited a number of sites, it helped gain an understanding for the size of some of the things but not what a weapon sounded like etc.

Here are the books I have from DK that are the most helpful:

CASTLES

Knights

Arms and Armor

Medieval Life

Beta Reader, Expert or Other?

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

gothicangel

Toughen up.

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged

heza

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

gothicangel

Toughen up.

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!