Does anyone have any tricks or tips for knowing when a story is ready to go out? I seem to be struggling with this a bit, but I don't want to hold on to it forever or overwork it.
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When is a story ready to go out?
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When you think that it is the best that it can be, and your beta reader(s) agree that it's ready. You may never achieve the first, so trust your beta reader(s).
It's ready the moment you decide to send it out. Too soon is usually better than too late.
Despite the current Internet rage, I think, for the most part, that trusting beta readers is the worst thing any writer can do.
Every blasted story in the slush has been beta read to death, if you believe cover letters, and almost all of them are pure junk. The overall quality of slush piles is far, far worse than it was before the Internet made it all too easy to find beta readers.
If you can't trust your own opinion, you're sunk.
Despite the current Internet rage, I think, for the most part, that trusting beta readers is the worst thing any writer can do.
Every blasted story in the slush has been beta read to death, if you believe cover letters, and almost all of them are pure junk. The overall quality of slush piles is far, far worse than it was before the Internet made it all too easy to find beta readers.
If you can't trust your own opinion, you're sunk.
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Well, it does actually depend on the quality of your betas. If they work in the industry, it can help more than it can hurt.
Thanks guys, but I am kind of looking for ways to gage a story yourself. I have not used bata readers. First I don't have any and second I'm a little iffy about sending my work to another writer I don't know.
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I'm with Thorjansen on this. I think critiques/betas are very important. In my own work, and in the work I have seen in SYW, they are invaluable.
As writers we walk a fine line between trusting our instincts and being blind to our own writing faults. When you are trying to decide which one to follow consider the old saying: If one man calls you an ass, ignore him. If two people call you an ass, ignore them. BUT if three people call you an ass, buy a saddle.
If three critters/betas are telling you something isn't working, then I'd say you should listen. On the other hand, you love it and three critters/betas love it, then start submitting and don't stop until there aren't any markets left.
Gettingby...we were posting at the same time...I understand your hesitation, but I don't have any suggestions because I think that in the beginning at least we are pretty blind to our own short comings. I have seen it in my own work and that of many others in the Share Your Work forum. Perhaps a writing class would be more to your liking?
As writers we walk a fine line between trusting our instincts and being blind to our own writing faults. When you are trying to decide which one to follow consider the old saying: If one man calls you an ass, ignore him. If two people call you an ass, ignore them. BUT if three people call you an ass, buy a saddle.
If three critters/betas are telling you something isn't working, then I'd say you should listen. On the other hand, you love it and three critters/betas love it, then start submitting and don't stop until there aren't any markets left.
Gettingby...we were posting at the same time...I understand your hesitation, but I don't have any suggestions because I think that in the beginning at least we are pretty blind to our own short comings. I have seen it in my own work and that of many others in the Share Your Work forum. Perhaps a writing class would be more to your liking?
@gettingby
I have a tendency to send out my stories before they're ready. I think this started with my first response from an editor. It was exciting to get feedback, albeit a rejection, and I became obsessed with submitting my work.
After more and more rejections came in, I refocused my energy back on my actual writing. I am currently working on "perfecting" my stories first; worrying about submitting second.
I have a tendency to send out my stories before they're ready. I think this started with my first response from an editor. It was exciting to get feedback, albeit a rejection, and I became obsessed with submitting my work.
After more and more rejections came in, I refocused my energy back on my actual writing. I am currently working on "perfecting" my stories first; worrying about submitting second.
There's no magic button for how to know. Polish it until it feels ready to you. Wait a day and re-read it. If it still feels done, send it. You will make mistakes and send some things too early, but you'll make fewer of them as you go along.
I don't think over-reliance on betas is a good thing. I'll send my critique partner shorts if I have specific issues, but he doesn't read most of my stuff. I certainly don't rely on him to tell me when it's ready to send.
I don't think over-reliance on betas is a good thing. I'll send my critique partner shorts if I have specific issues, but he doesn't read most of my stuff. I certainly don't rely on him to tell me when it's ready to send.
A story is ready when your changes only involve fiddling with details or endlessly switching back and forth between two versions.
I work on a story until I can't stand looking at it anymore, which is usually after I've gone through a second draft. Then I send it out to my betas and wait and see what they have to say. If I agree with their comments, I make changes and then send it out. If I don't agree with the comments the story stays as it is and it goes out.
Recently, I had an editor give me a personal rejection with a couple of lines about how he thought the story had potential, and where he thought the problems were. Since I happen to agree with what he said, I sent it to a different critique group than the original one to get some feedback and they which pretty much confirmed what that editor said. So that particular story I've yanked until I can figure out how to fix it.
Recently, I had an editor give me a personal rejection with a couple of lines about how he thought the story had potential, and where he thought the problems were. Since I happen to agree with what he said, I sent it to a different critique group than the original one to get some feedback and they which pretty much confirmed what that editor said. So that particular story I've yanked until I can figure out how to fix it.
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I don't use betas either, other than a grumpy old husband who finds fault with everything I write. (So I guess he is a beta.)
Trust yourself. The story should feel finished, complete, done - and then you know it's time to send it on its way.
Trust yourself. The story should feel finished, complete, done - and then you know it's time to send it on its way.
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hmmm. i learned to send stuff based upon my lawyer training. Putting aside deadlines, if I am clearly just shifting a few words, and I put the case away for a day and still change little, then it is ready to go.
I really cannot see the benefit of most crits. The SYW here seems like it is people who want others to read their work, so they crit. But the problem with all of the crits like that is that the reviewer seems like they say a few paragraphs because they feel it a minimum. A good reviewer would be one who says, "change this and fix that, and delete that other nonsense." Then the next time says, "throw this entire story away" then the next time says, "this is fine."
I would love to have someone who crits like that, but I'm the only one I know who does that for me.
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When the only work you've done is add a comma one day and delete it the next. Then you know you're done.
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I've had stories that I wrote, looked over, and said 'Yeah, it's done,' and then sent them out. I've had other stories where I wasn't quite sure, so I had people read them or posted excerpts in the SYW and got some feedback. I've sold both types of stories, so I don't think either process is better than the other. It just depends on the story.
I don't think there's a metric you can follow to know when a story is 'done.' To paraphrase The Matrix, it's kind of like being in love: no one can tell you when your story is good to go, you just know. A big part of it for me is accepting that no story is perfect, that there will always be a gap, even if it's just a sliver, between the vision I had in my head and what actually gets transmitted through my writing. Once I accepted that I stopped re-working everything to death and started subbing.
I don't think there's a metric you can follow to know when a story is 'done.' To paraphrase The Matrix, it's kind of like being in love: no one can tell you when your story is good to go, you just know. A big part of it for me is accepting that no story is perfect, that there will always be a gap, even if it's just a sliver, between the vision I had in my head and what actually gets transmitted through my writing. Once I accepted that I stopped re-working everything to death and started subbing.
You must not spend a whole lot of time on the SYW boards. There are a lot of awesome critiques floating around. When I submitted my first story I got crits telling me to take out certain parts and to change others. At the end of the day, though, I had to decide what would help my story and what didn't.
I don't think that crits are inherently worthless, but they can turn into a crutch for a writer. If I never learn to trust my instincts and learn the feeling of when something is working and when it is not on my own then I probably won't put out anything worth reading.
@OP: It is a feeling thing, as far as I can tell. I think it approximates muscle memory when you are performing repetitive tasks. Like when you drive a car. You don't have to calculate the exact degree of every turn that you make and you don't always have to look down at the shifter to change gears or throw it in reverse. It's something you get a feel for, something you just know. That's something that I am still working on learning, myself.
I suspect it only comes after many attempts and acceptances and rejections.
Definitely, you want a second pair of eyes for editing. That's just a good idea in any case: even a career editor needs someone else to look their writing over.
Otherwise, when you've written all you can, put it away for two to four weeks and return to it with a fresh perspective. If you don't feel there are any significant changes to make, it may be ready. There's a wonderful quote, "Art is never finished, it is merely abandoned," that people attribute to all sorts of painters and writers so I'm unsure of its source but the sentiment stands.
You don't have to send your writing (if you're feeling protective) to someone you don't know. Have a couple friends read it over and see if it makes sense to them.
Friends are overrated. I have a few, but no short story writer friends. I do like your quote, though.
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a "poor" publication rejects 98% of the stories it gets. A prize pub rejects 99.99%. Send the story. The best writers here get rejections. Get used to it.
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