weeping and gnashing of teeth.....

Lseeber · Jan 31, 2012

Hi Everyone,

First, I just love that phrase. How exactly does one "gnash" their teeth?

But anyway, I have a question, request of opinion for everyone, especially the more seasoned writers.

I've been querying one of my manuscripts for a while now, and as I expected, it's being rejected quite a bit. I've gotten a total of 15 rejections out of the first batch of 50 queries that I sent out so far. I expected it, and so far it doesn't bother me. There is no "gnashing of teeth" or wailing at the injustice of it all, etc, etc.

My friends say that my attitude is either 1) a form of denial 2) a sign of pyschotic detachment, or 3) an indication that I truly don't believe in my work.

So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer? And if it is something wrong, is it worth trying to correct?

Again, just curious.

Laura

Literateparakeet · Jan 31, 2012

Laura, I certainly don't consider myself one of the more seasoned writers, but I have to throw in my two cents anyway.

Are your friends writers? If no, then the answer is simple, they don't understand how the process works. As I understand it, even if an agent/editor loves a book, it may not fit their particular needs. So they may reject it based on factors that have nothing to do with your work.

If all 50 reject you, then you might want to go to SYW, see what might be the problem, and try again.

Non-writers don't understand that most of us write for the love of writing not simply to get published. Years ago, I got discouraged and stopped trying to sell my work, but I couldn't stop writing! I journaled; I blogged. I created "works of art" with words on message boards. I love writing. I don't know why this is so hard for non-writers to understand. If someone plays golf they don't expect them to be working on being the next Tiger Woods, or give up golf. Everyone accepts that people play golf for fun.

So, I think your attitude is healthy, and your friends are mistaken.

If your friends ARE actually fellow writers, then they have more to learn about the love of writing and how publishing works.

Either way, educate them, and keep your great attitude.

Lady MacBeth · Jan 31, 2012

Literateparakeet said:
I think your attitude is healthy, and your friends are mistaken.

If your friends ARE actually fellow writers, then they have more to learn about the love of writing and how publishing works.

Either way, educate them, and keep your great attitude.

Well said.

FrankiiGii · Jan 31, 2012

Totally agreed with LiterateParakeet

Jersey Chick · Jan 31, 2012

Lseeber said:
My friends say that my attitude is either 1) a form of denial 2) a sign of pyschotic detachment, or 3) an indication that I truly don't believe in my work.

Or maybe it's just that you realize that rejections aren't personal and that they come with the territory.

So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer?

Nope. Like I said, to me it seems as if you're able to separate rejecting the story and rejecting the person. Rejections aren't personal. They aren't a reflection on you as a person. It might not necessarily even be on you as a writer. There are a lot of reasons for rejection (the editor/agent may have made an offer on something very similar before they received your project, for example) and 99% of the time, it isn't anything personal. It's part of being a writer and subbing your work.

And if it is something wrong, is it worth trying to correct?

Nope. Why make yourself miserable if you don't have to be?

L.C. Blackwell · Jan 31, 2012

Lseeber said:
So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer? And if it is something wrong, is it worth trying to correct?

No, it means you're a grown-up writer, and we wish more writers would grow up. You are exhibiting professionalism. If there's a time when the emotional pull gets stronger, remember that you already know how to behave professionally, and that it's a good pattern to keep following.

Ctairo · Jan 31, 2012

Lseeber said:
My friends say that my attitude is either 1) a form of denial 2) a sign of pyschotic detachment, or 3) an indication that I truly don't believe in my work.

So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer? And if it is something wrong, is it worth trying to correct?

Again, just curious.

Laura

I vote for emotionally mature and someone the right agent will appreciate once you two connect.

Chase · Jan 31, 2012

Everyone said it first, and especially Laura and L.C. said it better. You're riding for the big brands now, and every reject is another notch on your six-guns.

blacbird · Jan 31, 2012

Lseeber said:
First, I just love that phrase. How exactly does one "gnash" their teeth?

Don't have a clue. Never experienced anyone doing that.

The term "gnashing of teeth" is derived from the King James Bible, as near as I can tell, and the word "gnash" is really archaic, useful in a Scrabble game, but not for much more. As to what it means, what else could you possibly "gnash"?

You may love the phrase, but it's an archaic cliché, and I would advise against its use.

caw

gothicangel · Feb 1, 2012

Lseeber said:
I've been querying one of my manuscripts for a while now, and as I expected, it's being rejected quite a bit. I've gotten a total of 15 rejections out of the first batch of 50 queries that I sent out so far. I expected it, and so far it doesn't bother me. There is no "gnashing of teeth" or wailing at the injustice of it all, etc, etc.

What type of rejections are these?
What is your ratio of form letters, partials, and full requests.

When you say 'you expected it,' this starts alarm bells for me. Can you explain why this is?
Yes, we writers expect it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

Polenth · Feb 1, 2012

Lseeber said:
So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer? And if it is something wrong, is it worth trying to correct?

Rejections don't bother me either. It's a personality thing and I doubt you could change it, even if you wanted to change it. Don't be apathetic about them though. If you're getting too many at the query stage, stop and take another look at your query.

allenparker · Feb 1, 2012

Rejections are part of writing. They are about learning the process and being tough enough to keep going. I believe every writer should have to endure fifty rejections before he gets to celebrate life as an author.

I think our own gentle Uncle Jim said that rejection is their way of telling you to write a better story. He also said never let a manuscript spend the night at home. Keep sending it out until Hell won't have it. Following his line of thinking means that all of us will get rejected and that the process, if we follow it, will make us better writers.

Perhaps rejection is just a part of our mental training.

I don't like being rejected, but I hardly notice much more of the letters but the handwritten stuff and the prominent "no."

KaiaSonderby · Feb 1, 2012

Maybe it's just that all people are different. I don't like rejections and they do upset me (and the last year or so I really couldn't handle them for various reasons, so I stopped during that time). I'm kind of an emotional person; I'll usually complain (to my husband) and cry until I feel better, then get on with it. I don't think there's really one reaction we're all supposed to have.*

That said, I have to ask: Why does this bother you? If the rejections don't, why should what your friends say get to you? Maybe you should ask yourself whether you're concerned that you're too detached. Never mind what they think.

*There are a few reactions no one should have, though.

QuantumIguana · Feb 1, 2012

I found this on the web:

In Webster's original dictionary, Webster defined the verb "gnash" as "to grind the teeth, to rage even to collision with the teeth, to growl." Webster defined the noun "gnashing" in this way: "striking the teeth together, as in anger, rage or pain. A grinding or striking of the teeth in rage or anguish."

Hip-Hop-a-potamus · Feb 1, 2012

Literateparakeet said:
Are your friends writers? If no, then the answer is simple, they don't understand how the process works. As I understand it, even if an agent/editor loves a book, it may not fit their particular needs. So they may reject it based on factors that have nothing to do with your work.

This. Yeah, I started out hopeful too. The first form rejections stung like nobody's business. But then you come to know that it's part of the process, and you numb yourself to it a bit. Sure, it still hurts, but it just means you have to work harder. Sounds like you're coping remarkably well.

Lseeber · Feb 1, 2012

blacbird said:
Don't have a clue. Never experienced anyone doing that.

The term "gnashing of teeth" is derived from the King James Bible, as near as I can tell, and the word "gnash" is really archaic, useful in a Scrabble game, but not for much more. As to what it means, what else could you possibly "gnash"?

You may love the phrase, but it's an archaic cliché, and I would advise against its use.

caw

Oh, don't worry, I don't really have any real reason to use the phrase, just like the mental image it conveys. Like you said, it's an archaic cliche.

gothicangel said:
What type of rejections are these?
What is your ratio of form letters, partials, and full requests.

When you say 'you expected it,' this starts alarm bells for me. Can you explain why this is?
Yes, we writers expect it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

Not entirely sure why my expectation of receiving rejections as part of the process would start alarm bells for you, but ok. I expect it because not everyone is going to like what I write, or feel that it is the best fit for their agency or publication. I don't expect everyone to love what I write; and having some people dislike or even hate it is simply part of the game, isn't it?

As for rejection hurting, so far it hasn't yet, not to the extent that I've seen other writers go through. There may come a time when it does, and if it happens I'll deal with it then. Shrug.

brightlyiburn said:
Maybe it's just that all people are different. I don't like rejections and they do upset me (and the last year or so I really couldn't handle them for various reasons, so I stopped during that time). I'm kind of an emotional person; I'll usually complain (to my husband) and cry until I feel better, then get on with it. I don't think there's really one reaction we're all supposed to have.*

That said, I have to ask: Why does this bother you? If the rejections don't, why should what your friends say get to you? Maybe you should ask yourself whether you're concerned that you're too detached. Never mind what they think.

*There are a few reactions no one should have, though.

Not sure it "bothers" me really. It's more of curiosity factor. Most of my writing or artistic friends react to things in much the same way that you do. I guess it was just a matter of wondering if I was wired differently than the 'normal' writer. Sorry if I gave the impression that it worried me.

thanks for all the responses everyone!

Laura

BethS · Feb 1, 2012

Lseeber said:
Hi Everyone,

First, I just love that phrase. How exactly does one "gnash" their teeth?

It means to grind them together.

So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer?

You have a detachment many writers would envy. Enjoy it.

I've been querying one of my manuscripts for a while now, and as I expected, it's being rejected quite a bit. I've gotten a total of 15 rejections out of the first batch of 50 queries that I sent out so far. I expected it, and so far it doesn't bother me.

Maybe it should. Has the query been rejected in all 15 cases, or did any of them get as far as requesting pages?

If the former, you may have problem with your query letter. If a few of the agents requested pages and then rejected it, then it's a writing issue.

Either way, 50 queries is a lot to send out at one time. The usual advice is to send them out in batches of about 10, and then re-evaluate depending on the results.

dangerousbill · Feb 1, 2012

Lseeber said:
My friends say that my attitude is either 1) a form of denial 2) a sign of pyschotic detachment, or 3) an indication that I truly don't believe in my work.

Or that they don't understand how the writing biz works.

gothicangel · Feb 1, 2012

BethS said:
Maybe it should. Has the query been rejected in all 15 cases, or did any of them get as far as requesting pages?

If the former, you may have problem with your query letter. If a few of the agents requested pages and then rejected it, then it's a writing issue.

This, if I received 15 straight form rejection letters I would be wailing and rendering my garments.

Then I would wonder what was going wrong.

When I queried [my now trunked] crime novel, my ratio was something like:

1 in 5 requested a full.
4 in 10 requested a partial.
Formal rejections were a rarity, most contained encouraging comments.

quicklime · Feb 1, 2012

Lseeber said:
Hi Everyone,

First, I just love that phrase. How exactly does one "gnash" their teeth?

But anyway, I have a question, request of opinion for everyone, especially the more seasoned writers.

I've been querying one of my manuscripts for a while now, and as I expected, it's being rejected quite a bit. I've gotten a total of 15 rejections out of the first batch of 50 queries that I sent out so far. I expected it, and so far it doesn't bother me. There is no "gnashing of teeth" or wailing at the injustice of it all, etc, etc.

My friends say that my attitude is either 1) a form of denial 2) a sign of pyschotic detachment, or 3) an indication that I truly don't believe in my work.

So I'm starting to get curious. Is the fact that I don't get emotionally riled up when someone rejects my work or offers criticism a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with me as a writer? And if it is something wrong, is it worth trying to correct?

Again, just curious.

Laura

let's start here (sorry if this has been addressed at all before): any of them writers or in any way in a position to have a clue what they're talking about?

Also, any acceptances? the number of rejections you get is meaningless as a single value, but as a ratio I'd hope to get at least 10% acceptance. On the other hand, if they are saying this because they think you should be getting at least a 75% acceptance rate, well, I guess i wouldn't be listening to any more hints from them.

gothicangel · Feb 1, 2012

Lseeber said:
Not entirely sure why my expectation of receiving rejections as part of the process would start alarm bells for you, but ok. I expect it because not everyone is going to like what I write, or feel that it is the best fit for their agency or publication. I don't expect everyone to love what I write; and having some people dislike or even hate it is simply part of the game, isn't it?

Can you say, hand on heart, that this is you're best work? Although I do expect rejection, it doesn't mean that I don't start wailing 'but this is the best I can do', when it comes.

The danger is that the detatchment is coming across to agents/editors.

kuwisdelu · Feb 1, 2012

Don't worry. It merely means you're not human.

BethS · Feb 1, 2012

gothicangel said:
This, if I received 15 straight form rejection letters I would be wailing and rendering my garments.

Then I would wonder what was going wrong.

When I queried [my now trunked] crime novel, my ratio was something like:

1 in 5 requested a full.
4 in 10 requested a partial.
Formal rejections were a rarity, most contained encouraging comments.

That's a great response. Why is it trunked?

gothicangel · Feb 1, 2012

BethS said:
That's a great response. Why is it trunked?

I think I killed it with love.
Over-editing and a never-ending cycle of rewriting. I got to the point were I couldn't stand the thought of salvaging it. I learned a lesson though, I'm getting very near to the submission stage with a new book, and I recognised the signs this time and stopped myself.

I may go back to it one day.

Lseeber · Feb 1, 2012

BethS said:
Maybe it should. Has the query been rejected in all 15 cases, or did any of them get as far as requesting pages?

If the former, you may have problem with your query letter. If a few of the agents requested pages and then rejected it, then it's a writing issue.

Either way, 50 queries is a lot to send out at one time. The usual advice is to send them out in batches of about 10, and then re-evaluate depending on the results.

A few of them requested chapters and later determined that it wasn't for them, although they liked the concept. The majority of them have simply been form letters saying essentially that it wasn't what their editors or contacts were looking for at the moment.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I sent 50 queries all at once. They were sent over a three month period.

.

quicklime said:
let's start here (sorry if this has been addressed at all before): any of them writers or in any way in a position to have a clue what they're talking about?

Also, any acceptances? the number of rejections you get is meaningless as a single value, but as a ratio I'd hope to get at least 10% acceptance. On the other hand, if they are saying this because they think you should be getting at least a 75% acceptance rate, well, I guess i wouldn't be listening to any more hints from them.

Well to be honest, I really didn't think to put an actual percentage requirement for the number of rejections versus the number of acceptances. As far as what my friends think, I'll have to ask them.

gothicangel said:
Can you say, hand on heart, that this is you're best work? Although I do expect rejection, it doesn't mean that I don't start wailing 'but this is the best I can do', when it comes.

The danger is that the detatchment is coming across to agents/editors.

Interesting question. On one hand I can say that yes, at this moment this is the best that I can give. However does that mean that it couldn't be improved during the publication process? Of course not. From what I understand, there is a long process between submission and actual publication where there is a give and take between the writer, agent, editor and publisher to put together a book that is well written and marketable. Right now, what I'm submitting is what I have to begin that process. It's a finished piece, but there is always going to be room for improvement.

I can see your point about being too detached in my presentation to potential agents and publishers. However, I think it would be better in the long run to present myself as a professional, one who believes in the merit of my work, rather than allowing my emotions to drive my actions.

God, I sound like a Vulcan.

kuwisdelu said:
Don't worry. It merely means you're not human.

Dammit! I've been discovered!!

Laura

weeping and gnashing of teeth.....

Nerdy Budgie

Out, damn'd spot! out, I say.

Up all night to get Loki

Keeper of Fort Blanket

Why Isn't IGNORE Available in RL?

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Toughen up.

Mushroom

Naked Futon Guy

The Little Aspie That Could

My rhymes are bottomless

Retired Illuminatus

Toughen up.

all out of fucks to give

Toughen up.

Revolutionize the World

Toughen up.