Realistic love interest in YA vs Fantasy fill-in?

Windcutter · Jan 30, 2012

Just curious. I see this issue crop up here and there, but I very rarely saw the target audience itself complaining.

UPD I hit the send button too early on accident. On with the post.

But the target audience doesn't seem to be complaining about the supposed lack of realism. Those who complain are usually adult readers. What do you think about the trend and its development?

Becca C. · Jan 30, 2012

I can see why the target audience likes fantasy-fulfilling love interests. I mean, when you're thirteen or fourteen, stuck in a high school surrounded by sweaty, smelly, offensive-joke-cracking boys who aren't interested in girls for anything other than their boobs and are too immature to even handle relationships yet, reading about chiselled, worldly, poetry-reciting love interests sweeping regular high school girls off their feet sounds pretty damn good.

But on another level, looking at it as an older reader of YA, I definitely see the need for realistic love interests. I don't want young girls to be dismissing boys their own age for not looking like models and not having the IQ of a college literature professor.

Can't we go middle-of-the-road? Decent-but-normal-looking boys who are smart and sensitive but realistically so? I think there's definitely a way to make your average, everyday teenage guy totally dreamy. Why don't we emphasize more important qualities than well-read-ness and looks, like a passion for something (anything) and a capability for love? A bond with a favourite pet or an intense ambition or passion can be equally as swoony as looks and fancy poetry.

bickazer · Jan 30, 2012

I don't mind idealized love interests so much, since I'm a big defender of wish fulfillment whatever the form, and I don't think most teenagers read YA books (or at least fantasy/paranormal books, which are the ones I write) looking for actualfax love advice. I do have a problem, however, when abusive/creepy/controlling love interests are presented as ideal. It's one thing to intend for a supposed love interest to be creepy, but a lot of the love interests from which I get creeper vibes seem to be presented as the epitome of hot and awesome and romantic.

Niiicola · Jan 30, 2012

This might sound controversial, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that books like this are sort of like a minor version of porn. You get to fantasize about being with a person who you'd never be with in real life, which is kind of the same as looking at pornography, except with lots more context and back-story and usually not quite so much sexytime and more insinuating.

I don't know if this makes a ton of sense, but it's how I tend to rationalize the huge popularity of books like Twilight. It's pretty much a graphic depiction of how hot/clever/devastatingly amazing Edward is, and people ate it up with a spoon (ahem, maybe myself included). It's just a different presentation of a very similar thing.

Becca C. · Jan 30, 2012

Niiicola said:
This might sound controversial, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that books like this are sort of like a minor version of porn. You get to fantasize about being with a person who you'd never be with in real life, which is kind of the same as looking at pornography, except with lots more context and back-story and usually not quite so much sexytime and more insinuating.

I don't know if this makes a ton of sense, but it's how I tend to rationalize the huge popularity of books like Twilight. It's pretty much a graphic depiction of how hot/clever/devastatingly amazing Edward is, and people ate it up with a spoon (ahem, maybe myself included). It's just a different presentation of a very similar thing.

Totally agree.

Carissa · Jan 30, 2012

Niiicola said:
This might sound controversial, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that books like this are sort of like a minor version of porn. You get to fantasize about being with a person who you'd never be with in real life, which is kind of the same as looking at pornography, except with lots more context and back-story and usually not quite so much sexytime and more insinuating.

I don't know if this makes a ton of sense, but it's how I tend to rationalize the huge popularity of books like Twilight. It's pretty much a graphic depiction of how hot/clever/devastatingly amazing Edward is, and people ate it up with a spoon (ahem, maybe myself included). It's just a different presentation of a very similar thing.

you expressed my thoughts better than I could

Rhoda Nightingale · Jan 30, 2012

While I agree with everyone who's theorized as to why wish-fulfillment fantasy romance love interests exist, I don't believe that the target audience is entirely satisfied with the trope either. Sure, plenty of popular YA seems to feed into it, but there are just as many--some under the paranormal umbrella--that do a pretty good job of developing more believable relationships between the characters.

Examples: Paranormalcy, Misfit, Wicked Lovely (the first book anyway; I don't know where it goes after that), even the second book in the Fallen series has the heroine questioning why, besides the whole "destiny" thing, she and her LI are together.

Admittedly I don't read much of it for the romance angle, but I still say the audience is out there for teens who want more realism in their love stories.

Niiicola · Jan 30, 2012

Rhoda Nightingale said:
While I agree with everyone who's theorized as to why wish-fulfillment fantasy romance love interests exist, I don't believe that the target audience is entirely satisfied with the trope either. Sure, plenty of popular YA seems to feed into it, but there are just as many--some under the paranormal umbrella--that do a pretty good job of developing more believable relationships between the characters.

Examples: Paranormalcy, Misfit, Wicked Lovely (the first book anyway; I don't know where it goes after that), even the second book in the Fallen series has the heroine questioning why, besides the whole "destiny" thing, she and her LI are together.

Admittedly I don't read much of it for the romance angle, but I still say the audience is out there for teens who want more realism in their love stories.

I agree with this. And I think people like to "try on" all different kinds of relationships through books. Not necessarily the same audience, but it can be, I think.

J.S.F. · Jan 30, 2012

Talking about relationships, I like to handle my characters' developing relationships with the opposite sex as something uneasy, somewhat angst-filled, and with the same uncertainty most of us had as teens. For me, it seems to work better that way as opposed to writing the impossibly perfect guy with the impossibly perfect girl. Life just doesn't work that way and even if Twilight hit the right spots with a lot of readers, everything was too perfect.

legendary bum · Jan 30, 2012

Most intelligent* teenage readers aren't impressed with the current love interest trend in YA. My friends and I make fun of it all the time.

*when I say "intelligent," I just mean "capable of thinking critically about literature," a skill that develops at different times for different people regardless of raw intelligence

missesdash · Jan 30, 2012

I love the porn comparison specifically because of how damaging porn can be to budding sexuality and how "mainstream" porn really gives boys lots of unrealistic expectations and makes girls insecure. There is porn that addresses that in that it really is more representative of what healthy sex is like and how both partners can enjoy it and SO

That definitely relates to the whole giving girls unrealistic standards. The thing about the romances, though, is that most teens are exposed to a variety of relationships and get to observe how it really works through a lot of mediums. Whereas with sex, an overwhelming amount of them "learn" from porn.

So I'd say we do have a little more wiggle room for those totally idealistic and fantastically-perfect love interests precisely because there is a wider variety out there. But I do think the majority of romances written for young people should try to reflect some semblance of complexity and not just melodrama. We get plenty of prince charmings growing up. Once we're teens there should be a little more conflict.

Toothpaste · Jan 31, 2012

I would also add to this discussion: don't discount the older readers. Just because YA technically is for teens, doesn't mean there isn't a huge adult readership for it. And they spend their money and talk about their fav YA books just as much as the teens do. So I don't think one ought to dismiss their concerns, just because in theory the books are meant to be for younger readers. Of course the books must still appeal to younger readers, but I think it's quite possible to show healthy interesting AND romantic relationships in YA.

inspiredbymusic · Jan 31, 2012

This is a really interesting topic and I've found the comments thought-provoking. I bet there is enough material for a PhD dissertation or two in this subject.
My simplistic 2 cents is that these fantasy love interests/relationships are kind of like junk food. A little is ok and might be fun to have once in a while, but a constant diet will probably leave you feeling like crap. A nutrient-rich, balanced and flavorful meal will end up being more enjoyable and satisfying in the end. But in literature (both YA and adult) I think there is room for twinkles, gourmet meals, and pretty much everything in between.

Becca C. · Jan 31, 2012

missesdash said:
I love the porn comparison specifically because of how damaging porn can be to budding sexuality and how "mainstream" porn really gives boys lots of unrealistic expectations and makes girls insecure. There is porn that addresses that in that it really is more representative of what healthy sex is like and how both partners can enjoy it and SO

That definitely relates to the whole giving girls unrealistic standards. The thing about the romances, though, is that most teens are exposed to a variety of relationships and get to observe how it really works through a lot of mediums. Whereas with sex, an overwhelming amount of them "learn" from porn.

So I'd say we do have a little more wiggle room for those totally idealistic and fantastically-perfect love interests precisely because there is a wider variety out there. But I do think the majority of romances written for young people should try to reflect some semblance of complexity and not just melodrama. We get plenty of prince charmings growing up. Once we're teens there should be a little more conflict.

Wasn't sure what exactly to quote but kind of along the same lines...

I think it's really important to show all types of people in romantic relationships. Not just in YA, but in movies and TV as well. Because a lot of people (myself very much included) kind of grow up with this idea that romance is only for pretty people. I'm trying to get myself to break out of it now, but basically since I was thirteen or so I've always had a thought in the back of my head that certain things about my appearance made "love" impossible.

"Oh, he's cute. But I won't be able to get a boyfriend until my acne clears up," "James is so dreamy, too bad liking me is out of the question until my hair grows out," "When I lose five pounds, that's when someone will finally hit on me."

It can be really damaging to see only perfect-skinned, glossy-haired, makeup-wearing girls get the guy every time. Even when the guy is nerdy or not the best looking, the girl he loves is always perfect! If there's a fat girl who gets the guy, in movies it's always played for laughs. Or (in YA especially), the girl will be so self-conscious and hard on herself about her flaws, and when she finally gets her love interest she thinks he likes her in spite of those things, not that her "flaws" endear her to him.

I'm not quite sure where I was going with this, but anyway

those are my thoughts!

Niiicola · Jan 31, 2012

inspiredbymusic said:
My simplistic 2 cents is that these fantasy love interests/relationships are kind of like junk food. A little is ok and might be fun to have once in a while, but a constant diet will probably leave you feeling like crap. A nutrient-rich, balanced and flavorful meal will end up being more enjoyable and satisfying in the end. But in literature (both YA and adult) I think there is room for twinkles, gourmet meals, and pretty much everything in between.

My thoughts exactly.

Niiicola · Jan 31, 2012

Becca C. said:
It can be really damaging to see only perfect-skinned, glossy-haired, makeup-wearing girls get the guy every time. Even when the guy is nerdy or not the best looking, the girl he loves is always perfect! If there's a fat girl who gets the guy, in movies it's always played for laughs. Or (in YA especially), the girl will be so self-conscious and hard on herself about her flaws, and when she finally gets her love interest she thinks he likes her in spite of those things, not that her "flaws" endear her to him.

Or, my personal favorite, the total slob sitcom man with the gorgeous wife. But never the other way around.

I feel like this is one of the big problems with Hollywood and American (and I'm assuming Canadian?) TV. Everybody is always perfect looking. In other countries -- France and England at least -- the people on TV are a lot more normal looking. I think it's healthier for everybody that way.

missesdash · Jan 31, 2012

@Niicola haha this is so true. When I first moved to France I kept thinking "why are there so many ugly people on TV??"

But they weren't ugly (well, not all of them) just normal looking people. It's still something that stands out for me.

I don't think I necessarily mind it with certain things, though. In some mediums (music, soap operas) I think of the people as models or "things." So I expect to enjoy looking at them. The heavier the subject, the more I ignore that kind of thing. But I sort of expect the host of some crappy talk show to at least be attractive. Entirely shallow, I know.

Alouette · Jan 31, 2012

I'm still a teen and I've never liked the perfect, unrealistic LI many YA books portray. The author usually tries to make them so awesome and great at everything that they forget to make them interesting. I have nothing to identify with, with a perfect love interest and I just don't find them appealing or fun to read about in way. Clearly, many teens like it but it really puts me off a book to the point where I'll stop reading if a flawless LI starts dominating the book.

Zoombie · Jan 31, 2012

Well, in my story at least there's a reason why the MC's are skinny!

One lives in space, where what you eat is regulated by complex nutritional AIs and local supplies, AND she's been through the equivalent of the USMC basic training and 3-4 months at the front lines.

And the other is skinny because she lives on a farm in rural Quebec and was afflicted with the War-Pox when she was 12, paralyzing her from the waste down and making it pretty damn hard to get around on her wheelchair without putting lots of effort in.

Both my girls have lots of upper body strength, is what I'm saying.

But, yes, there's a good reason to have realistic characters: The blemishes make the fine parts stand out all the more acutely. Contrast is a huge part of what makes stuff compelling. And furthermore, relatability trumps self insertion fantasy for long term appeal.

In ten years, I doubt the Twilight fans will be nearly so rabid...but, even eight years after I read it, I still adore a Deepness in the Sky, and that's a romance between a coward and a brilliant, brawny girl that barely comes up to his chest in terms of height!

(Well, okay, she was rasied on a high gravity planet, so her being able to punch through most people makes sense...)

jmlee · Jan 31, 2012

I don't feel like I get to be part of this conversation, but I want to be. All my characters are sex-bombs and one is an albino teleporting gypsy

[lurks]

SaronaNalia · Feb 1, 2012

Windcutter said:
I see this issue crop up here and there, but I very rarely saw the target audience itself complaining.

I've noticed just the opposite. I'm almost not a teen anymore, but I was one pretty recently, and the other teens I hung out with were complaining. For the most part, I don't think teens are satisfied with these unreal love interests. I know I wasn't. But all the adults I knew who read YA (mostly my friends' moms) were totally in love with those characters.

Becca C. said:
Can't we go middle-of-the-road? Decent-but-normal-looking boys who are smart and sensitive but realistically so? I think there's definitely a way to make your average, everyday teenage guy totally dreamy. Why don't we emphasize more important qualities than well-read-ness and looks, like a passion for something (anything) and a capability for love? A bond with a favourite pet or an intense ambition or passion can be equally as swoony as looks and fancy poetry.

This is what I want to see, personally.

Niiicola · Feb 1, 2012

I want to know what book it is where the love interest writes fancy poetry so I can NEVER READ IT.

bickazer · Feb 1, 2012

jmlee said:
I don't feel like I get to be part of this conversation, but I want to be. All my characters are sex-bombs and one is an albino teleporting gypsy

[lurks]

If it makes you feel better, I would read the crap out of a story about an albino teleporting gypsy.

LadyA · Feb 1, 2012

jmlee said:
I don't feel like I get to be part of this conversation, but I want to be. All my characters are sex-bombs and one is an albino teleporting gypsy

[lurks]

Is he Edward Cullen?

jmlee · Feb 1, 2012

LadyA said:
Is he Edward Cullen?

No! But he does sparkle!

/derail

Realistic love interest in YA vs Fantasy fill-in?

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