Anti-Americanism, xenophobia and glorification of a controversial historical figure?

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Morwen Edhelwen

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In the YA WIP I'm working on (The Lady's Got Potential), the young male lead is very anti-American (comes of being from a dieselpunk version of Honduras, dominated by the United Fruit Company). This also means that he's very xenophobic and prejudiced against Afro-Jamaicans. Would anyone find a protagonist with these views to be objectionable? (This guy is loosely based on a well-known historical figure) ETA: by "these views", I mean the cultural and (bits of racial) prejudice.
 
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Grunkins

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I would only find him objectionable if he was badly written.
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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The sort of stuff I'm thinking off is comments like "why can't they (meaning United Fruit Co.'s mostly Jamaican workers) get out of this country?" ETA: Black West Indian workers (predominantly Jamaican) were contracted by UFCO to its banana plantations in Central America starting in the 19th century.
 
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thothguard51

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How does being Anti-American make him a racist? America is made up of many cultures.

And how does that make him automatically racist against Afro-Jamaican?
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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The United Fruit Company often employed Afro-Jamaican workers to work its banana plantations. These workers competed with local Hondurans for jobs and were often used as strike breakers, which contributed to racist attitudes among some Hondurans. Since UFCO (American company- paid low wages and the West Indians were often given better-paying jobs than locals, (mostly because they spoke English) some people were hostile to them. Kind of a scapegoating thing going on.
 

job

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Would anyone find a protagonist with these views to be objectionable?

Anything you write, except possibly the alphabet, is going to offend somebody.


You do have some things to consider:

-- Is this 'book idea' marketable and if so, to whom? What's your audience?
-- Will holding these political and social views build the character you want?
-- Can the reader find the protagonist and his views sympathetic? Does 'sympathetic' matter?
-- What are good techniques to incorporate politics into fiction?
-- What books do this very well?

In short, it might be worthwhile looking at marketability, the technique of writing this kind of story, and books that are similar to yours.

FWIW, if your target audience is young Americans, I don't see them getting bent out of shape that a protagonist in Honduras is anti-American. There's a good deal of this going on.
Your protagonist being virulently anti-Black is likely to present a larger problem in attracting that audience.
 
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Morwen Edhelwen

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It's going to be YA when I'm done with it (have just started it again) ETA: I'm also worried that people might think I'm glorifying the historical figure, who was and still is very controversial, because the protagonist (who's Black too) is loosely based on him. (The historical figure was not Black and had a very different background.) It's more of a scapegoating thing.
 
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Diana_Rajchel

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How does being Anti-American make him a racist? America is made up of many cultures.

And how does that make him automatically racist against Afro-Jamaican?

There are those who understand this - and I have been subjected to those who really, REALLY, don't. Two weeks in the UK at Tony Blair's re-election made me more sympathetic with Ireland than any direct experience with the Irish ever could.

Common attitudes include that the US poor aren't "really" poor because they have it better on a comparative scale; the belief all Americans are utterly ignorant of world events, and the idea that whatever television management chooses to air in some way directly represents all of the United States.

Any Snooki-based insult could apply.
 

Diana_Rajchel

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It's going to be YA when I'm done with it (have just started it again) ETA: I'm also worried that people might think I'm glorifying the historical figure, who was and still is very controversial, because the protagonist is based on him.

Save worrying about that for the rewrite. You can always alter it to speak of him more accurately once you get the bones of the story down.
 

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Being a student of the history of US-Latin American relations, I understand where you're coming from and in no way find such a character's perspective objectionable. It's more than justified in many ways.

That being said, questions arise since you're writing a YA audience. My first worry would be that it would come off too preachy, which can obviously be avoided by good writing and character development. The other problem I foresee, as mentioned by others, is marketability. I hate telling someone to think about the business side of art, and although I think exposing young adults to world issues (albeit in a perhaps mild manner) is an excellent idea, marketability is something to think about. Most people probably won't want their kids reading anti-American fiction. That being said, I'd say screw them. Write what you want to write. Controversial books sure are interesting.
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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Being a student of the history of US-Latin American relations, I understand where you're coming from and in no way find such a character's perspective objectionable. It's more than justified in many ways.

That being said, questions arise since you're writing a YA audience. My first worry would be that it would come off too preachy, which can obviously be avoided by good writing and character development. The other problem I foresee, as mentioned by others, is marketability. I hate telling someone to think about the business side of art, and although I think exposing young adults to world issues (albeit in a perhaps mild manner) is an excellent idea, marketability is something to think about. Most people probably won't want their kids reading anti-American fiction. That being said, I'd say screw them. Write what you want to write. Controversial books sure are interesting.

Thanks, Logan!
 

ViolettaVane

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Disclaimer: I don't know anything about YA. I don't write it and I haven't read it since I was a YA myself, so I don't know what level of sympathy and realism is required.

But as a writer, I think you're asking the wrong questions. Characters can be objectionable. Heroes can be flawed. Does the narrative regard their flaws as flaws? That's the real question. I don't like reading historical fiction in which injustice is erased or glossed over. Ideally for me, it should be present as part of the picture, but not completely dominating the narrative (otherwise, injustice becomes the whole point of the story, it gets too preachy, and it would be better as nonfiction)

As someone who's been to Central America, I think they have their own issues with racism and colorism that are quite separate from anti-Americanism. I don't think anti-Americanism is prejudice per se, anyway... it's just acknowledgement of a political reality and desire not to be totally dominated by a vastly more powerful country. The racism is something different. Those countries were dominated for hundreds of years by slaveholding white European elites (just like the United States), so even though they're much more multiracial than the United States, a lot of that attitude is still there in the present day.

Realistically for that time period, unless your character is himself Afro-Honduran, he'd likely be racist against the Afro-Jamaicans, not because they're associated with the US, but because they're black. Maybe that's an issue he works through and gets better on throughout the course of the book. Or maybe he's the rare person who was better than that. I'm sure there were crusaders for racial justice in Honduras too.
 

Katrina S. Forest

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Anything you write, except possibly the alphabet, is going to offend somebody.

I'm offended by the alphabet.

Seriously, letter X, preschool teachers everywhere hate you. We can only do so many art activities about X-rays and xylophones. Either be useful or get lost.

(Apologies for thread derailment.)
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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Disclaimer: I don't know anything about YA. I don't write it and I haven't read it since I was a YA myself, so I don't know what level of sympathy and realism is required.

But as a writer, I think you're asking the wrong questions. Characters can be objectionable. Heroes can be flawed. Does the narrative regard their flaws as flaws? That's the real question. I don't like reading historical fiction in which injustice is erased or glossed over. Ideally for me, it should be present as part of the picture, but not completely dominating the narrative (otherwise, injustice becomes the whole point of the story, it gets too preachy, and it would be better as nonfiction)

As someone who's been to Central America, I think they have their own issues with racism and colorism that are quite separate from anti-Americanism. I don't think anti-Americanism is prejudice per se, anyway... it's just acknowledgement of a political reality and desire not to be totally dominated by a vastly more powerful country. The racism is something different. Those countries were dominated for hundreds of years by slaveholding white European elites (just like the United States), so even though they're much more multiracial than the United States, a lot of that attitude is still there in the present day.

Realistically for that time period, unless your character is himself Afro-Honduran, he'd likely be racist against the Afro-Jamaicans, not because they're associated with the US, but because they're black. Maybe that's an issue he works through and gets better on throughout the course of the book. Or maybe he's the rare person who was better than that. I'm sure there were crusaders for racial justice in Honduras too.

He's Afro-Honduran. It's not really "racism" as such- maybe that's the wrong word."They speak English. We don't. They're getting jobs while we're being shortchanged."
He doesn't like them because he knows that "they're taking away "our" (other Afro-Hondurans)' jobs, according to the adults around him, and he can see that it's because they're skilled in English that they get the better-paid jobs.
I know that it isn't prejudice- in fact I'd be angry too if I was in that situation. I don't want this to sound like "HEY GUYS AMERICANS ARE BAD." (Caps for emphasis on what I don't want.)
 
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IceCreamEmpress

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I think that "xenophobic" is the word you're looking for, not "racist", maybe? "Cultural prejudice" is also a good way of putting it, as is "bigotry".

But, yeah, I don't see why someone would be offended by that--it seems like a fairly common prejudice for a character in that situation to have. Could it get uncomfortable to read, or even tiresome, if the character goes on and on and on about how terrible Jamaicans are, and how corrupt the US is, and blah blah blah? Possible. But perhaps also illuminating.
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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I think that "xenophobic" is the word you're looking for, not "racist", maybe? "Cultural prejudice" is also a good way of putting it, as is "bigotry".

But, yeah, I don't see why someone would be offended by that--it seems like a fairly common prejudice for a character in that situation to have. Could it get uncomfortable to read, or even tiresome, if the character goes on and on and on about how terrible Jamaicans are, and how corrupt the US is, and blah blah blah? Possible. But perhaps also illuminating.

Thanks, IceCreamEmpress. Xenophobia, yeah that's it! Definitely plausible for an Afro-Honduran boy to be xenophobic.
 

kuwisdelu

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blacbird

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the young male lead is very anti-American (comes of being from a dieselpunk version of Honduras, dominated by the United Fruit Company). This also means that he's very xenophobic and prejudiced against Afro-Jamaicans. . . . He's Afro-Honduran.

I can understand the anti-Americanism, given that UFC and many other big American corporations have colonialized impoverished foreign nations (e.g., Haiti), in pretty brutal ways. The rest of the connection I don't get. Why, if he's Afro-Honduran, is he "prejudiced against Afro-Jamaicans"?

This is my ignorance, but I suspect it may be many other readers' ignorance as well. I saw your explanatory post, but for readers you're going to need to give some background explanation of this attitude. Having some dramatic confrontation between the two groups would be a good way to accomplish this. Strikes me as a classic "show, don't tell" situation.

caw
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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It's something he's picked up because he's heard stuff from the adults around him about the Jamaicans taking people's jobs. UFC employed Jamaicans and other West Indians in higher-paid positions than local Hondurans, and used them as scabs and strike breakers etc because they spoke English well.
 
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Lhipenwhe

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Anything you write, except possibly the alphabet, is going to offend somebody.

Excuse me?! The alphabet is the language of my peoples ancient oppressors! How dare you honor them by using their language!

Ahem. Bad jokes aside...

It's entirely possible to make bigoted protagonists/MCs. Archie Bunker, Eric Cartman, and Rorschach are protagonists (although applying that to Eric is... problematic). Like the other posters said, good writing is the alpha and omega for the story and characters.
 

Theo81

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Is it okay to have a xenophobic character? Yes.
Is it okay to have a racist character? Yes.

Will you be able to sell a book in which you have a horribly racist MC, which is patronising and neo-colonialist and in which his views don't have anything to do with the plot? Yes, to those who share those views.

Write what is good for the character. When you get Beta readers, ask them (afterwards) if they found X to be too racist, or if they were offended, etc etc.

I am horribly offended by:

Two weeks in the UK at Tony Blair's re-election made me more sympathetic with Ireland than any direct experience with the Irish ever could.

(although I should mention Diana probably doesn't mean what I think she means and I'm annoyed due to, yet more, "viable devices" being found. Sympathetic to the Irish translates to "Well, blowing people up is never a good idea, but I do see why they are doing it.")

Would I have a problem with them in a book? Yes. Does it mean that book shouldn't be published? No.


You don't need to ask permission to do stuff. Do it, then find out from your Betas if it's going to be an obstacle to publication. If it is, you've probably gone to far anyway.
 
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