and a thriller thrills because . . . ?

tko

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Does a thriller thrill because of the stakes, or are the stakes just an elaborate Macguffin that could be replaced by any plot device? Aren't all thrillers character driven, in the sense that we really care more about the main characters than any abstract threat to the world?

In concrete terms, if you read a thriller about terrorists about to set a bomb off in New York City, do you care more about the potential bombing, and its devastating effects, or the actions, perils, and efforts of the protags in stopping it?

Personally, I don't care much about the raise-the-stakes consequences. It's somewhat satisfying to have a threat that threatens the world, but it's also more of an abstract concept. How do you really feel the threat to a few million people you don't know? An immediate threat to one character that you know generates a stronger reaction than an abstract threat to a million people you don't.

A good writer makes the main character come alive. In a thriller, they're constantly facing very real and intimate dangers. Personal choices. We get to know them. In my opinion, this is where the suspense comes from; the conflicts facing your protag as he/she tries to save the world.

My position (and I could be very wrong; that's why I'm posting) is that a good thriller is part mystery (how are the bad guys going to smuggle in the bombs?) and suspense/action (the protag is constantly being threatened.) The threat itself is somewhat inconsequential. Sometimes I actually forget what the stakes are when reading - I'm more concerned with how our character escapes the current chapter's dilemma.

You may love or hate The Da Vinci Code, but it did sell. I think it was sucessful because it was driven by mystery (the puzzles), and the constant danger to the protag. Not because of the stakes. Each chapter ended with a new mystery, and a new threat.

Now, there are a few high-concept novels where the threat defines the book. Jurassic Park wouldn't be Jurassic Park without the dinosaurs. But in most thrillers the stakes could be replaces with anything (a bombing in New York could be replaces by a plague in London) with no impact. A few years after reading a thriller I've usually forgotten the stakes. What were the stakes of the DaVinci Code? I honestly can't remember, but the albino monk killer dude is stuck in my brain (for better or worse!)

If you agree with me, then when marketing, querying or writing a blurb about your novel, you'd want to concentrate on personal stakes, characterization, and plot twists, with only a brief mention of the high-level stakes:

"Policeman John Strong has been given one week to live by his doctors, and must battle his own addictions, corrupt management, a transsexual nun, and his cross-dressing dog in stopping a sinister plot of some type."

So, what drives a successful thriller?
 

leahzero

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Making big threats personal is what makes a good thriller, IMO. At least the type I like to read.

The death of one is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic.

The Jurassic Park trilogy is an excellent example of this, actually. In the first novel/movie, the scope of the threat is small and nicely defined: a handful of people on a small Costa Rican island full of dinosaurs. They're cut off from the world and there are few weapons available, forcing the plot to focus on the ingenuity of the humans (and dinosaurs). This works wonderfully to create tension, and make the stakes feel big even though they're just the lives of a handful of people.

In the sequels, Crichton tried to raise the stakes and lost sight of the magic of the first novel. A T-rex stomping around a town eating hapless suburbanites makes for an entertaining spectacle, but it doesn't connect to the readers or viewers in an emotional, personal way.

I think thrillers can be character-driven, and I enjoy them most when they are--because really, what's another bomb threat, or planet threat, or even galaxy threat?--but lamentably I find too many focus on the what and not the who.
 

DeleyanLee

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My position (and I could be very wrong; that's why I'm posting) is that a good thriller is part mystery (how are the bad guys going to smuggle in the bombs?) and suspense/action (the protag is constantly being threatened.) The threat itself is somewhat inconsequential. Sometimes I actually forget what the stakes are when reading - I'm more concerned with how our character escapes the current chapter's dilemma.

You may love or hate The Da Vinci Code, but it did sell. I think it was sucessful because it was driven by mystery (the puzzles), and the constant danger to the protag. Not because of the stakes. Each chapter ended with a new mystery, and a new threat.

I'll take a stab at this.

Thrillers thrill because the reader generally knows the exact nature of the dangers that the characters are up against--more than the characters. The reader cannot see how the characters is going to come through it, let alone win. They want to see that win.

I don't really agree with having to fall in love with the characters or the characters having any real depth to them. I adore The DaVinci Code, but I found the characters very cardboard but serviceable. It wasn't the puzzles they had to solve, it was the fact that, if this was correct, it would rewrite the truth of a major religion that would affect me and my country very profoundly. I wanted to see A) if it was true and B) if that truth got rewritten.

All the running and jumping and dancing in place of the plot events were interesting ways to move the story along, but all of that was incidental to that question.

My knowing about the albino assassin and the baddies' plans was what upped the stakes. It was my anticipation of how things could work out, and the fact that the heroes didn't always get the easy win so they could lose at a critical moment, that kept me reading the entire book until 40 minutes before I had to leave for work the next morning. (true story)

I don't write Thrillers, but I read them and that's why I read the genre--for that "I know and can't figure out how it's going to wind up good for anyone" experience only Thrillers give me.
 

gothicangel

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what's another bomb threat, or planet threat, or even galaxy threat?--but lamentably I find too many focus on the what and not the who.

So this. :)

I've just seen Haywire in the cinema tonight [spy thriller.] The MC is as tough as nails until the point until character x is killed [love interest] by the antagonist. Suddenly the stakes aren't just intellectual, but emotional too.
 

cbenoi1

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Mystery: The MC combs an appartment for clues in a murder case.

Suspense: The victim is the MC's lover and the only witness has vanished.

Thriller: The MC gets a call from the terrorist holding her daughter.

-cb
 

Jamesaritchie

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I think most would say that thrillers are the least character driven novels out there. I believe all really good novels are character driven and plot driven, but almost by definition, thrillers are plot driven, and the protagonist is often pure cardboard.

But it is NOT plot or character that makes a thriller a thriller. Terrorists hiding a bomb in New York city is not a thriller, a mystery, or anything else, based on plot. It falls into a given type depending solely on how it's told. I can see several easy ways to use such a plot in a cozy.

A thriller is a thriller because of the way it's written. It's literally one thrill after another, and a thrill is defined as the combination of high action and high danger, one after another after another.

This is probably easier to see in thriller movies than in thriller novels, but it's always there.

It's a roller coaster ride, often with almost no time given to real character development. Clive Cussler's Dirk Pit novels also show this pretty well.

I think the problem lies in the fact that the word "thrill" is attached to too many things, though one of the most common association is with a roller coaster, and other such rides, at an amusement park. This is not coincidence, is where the thriller got its name.
 

tko

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some interesting points

I agree with you. But what does this mean for a query? If we can agree that a successful thriller depends on pace and thrills, then wouldn't a successful thriller query depend on highlighting these aspects?

Yet the classic three questions:

1. What does your protagonist want?
2. What does s/he have to do to get it?
3. What happens if s/he fails to get what she wants?

are more character based. For Dirk Pitt these questions are kind of silly and don't determine the quality of the novel. Thriller heros don't usually have a choice. They kick butt because it's a thriller, no other reason need or even wanted.

Sure, you could argue that if Dirk doesn't succeed, NYC will be blown up by a nuclear bomb, but point is that could be replaced w/any decent threat. It's the cliff hangers in each chapter that drive the plot and sell novels.

So, to repeat myself, why would a thriller query concern itself with stuff that a average thriller reader doesn't care about? Something just seems off here.


I think most would say that thrillers are the least character driven novels out there. I believe all really good novels are character driven and plot driven, but almost by definition, thrillers are plot driven, and the protagonist is often pure cardboard.

But it is NOT plot or character that makes a thriller a thriller. Terrorists hiding a bomb in New York city is not a thriller, a mystery, or anything else, based on plot. It falls into a given type depending solely on how it's told. I can see several easy ways to use such a plot in a cozy.

A thriller is a thriller because of the way it's written. It's literally one thrill after another, and a thrill is defined as the combination of high action and high danger, one after another after another.
 

grizzletoad1

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Speaking entirely from my own gut-wretching experience with a query, I think the problem with a Q is that it has to be a thumbnail sketch of a story. It can only touch on certain limited elements in the manuscript and therefore has to focus on the central threat, not the character. In many ways, a character's background takes too much time to develop to be the central focus of a Q. That was the trouble I had in trying to build a Q for my ms. I too believe that a thriller has to involve the mc and the things he/she feels or either can lose, or has already lost. A tale about the rescue of a loved one, or the retribition for the murder of someone the mc cared deeply for are the most effective drivers of a story, in my opinion. Much of the rest is the backdrop for the story, kind of the canvas a picture is painted on. Do we care about the material of the canvas? No. Do we care about the subject on that canvas? Absolutely.
 

kaitie

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I actually agree both with Leah and James. I agree that there's often a sense of outdoing other books by ratcheting up the stakes, and honestly if I don't care about a character or why they're doing it, it's not going to appeal to me as much.

At the same time, I think the writing itself is a major factor here. While I prefer character-driven books, suspense can be as much about how something is written and the way the scenes play out as what's actually going on. Some writers are just brilliant at building suspense and will have me turning pages the whole book.

Something I see a lot when I do critiques is that people will often have a scene that should be suspenseful, and on the surface level of what's happening it is, but the writing itself is too slow or detailed to give it the oompf it needs. Pacing and structure are advanced writing skills that, if done well, can make even something that's boring on the surface look exciting.
 

gothicangel

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I actually agree both with Leah and James. I agree that there's often a sense of outdoing other books by ratcheting up the stakes, and honestly if I don't care about a character or why they're doing it, it's not going to appeal to me as much.

I agree with Kaitie.

I'm currently reading Ben Kane's Spartacus. I'm 200 pages in, and all it has been is fight after fight after fight, and I'm worn out.
I'm seriously considering giving up on this one.
The major problem really, is the consequetive fights have come at the price of character, and the suspense has fallen flat on its face. Now I'm not sure whether this is because there is a new boy in town - Robert Fabbri. His Vespasian was brilliant and well crafted.