GRRM Interviews Bernard Cornwell

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thothguard51

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Just thought I would share this interview by GRRM with Bernard Cornwell I found on the Omnivoracious web site.

Here's the link...

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/3bRST...e-r-r-martin-interviews-bernard-cornwell.html

Very interesting interview as both feel a strong influence from Tolkien and yet have taken great pains to push away from Tolkien like fantasy. Very interesting...

Edited to add...Even though this is an interview by GRRM of Cronwell, GRRM sure gets his plugs in about his work, less we forget...
 

Hallen

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Thanks for sharing the link.

I found some of the answers interesting:

"And perhaps flawed characters are more interesting because they are forced to make a choice . . . a conventionally good character will always do the moral, right thing. Boring. Sharpe often does the right thing, but usually for the wrong reasons, and that's much more interesting!"

I think they are being way to shallow about "conventional good" characters vs flawed characters. All characters should be flawed otherwise they are not interesting nor even remotely real. We are all flawed. We all have things we struggle with, and we'll all do slightly bad things in certain situations. That's only normal.

If characters are not forced to make tough choices, then the STORY is boring, and that's the author's fault. A character does not have to be "gray" (in this context, I take that to mean has an evil streak to them that is apparent and accepted by the character), to force them to make bad choices, or choices that cause harm. A character who tries to be good, moral, and wise will still make stupid mistakes that cause harm (if they don't then again, that's a story problem).

So, I don't exactly understand what they mean about a "conventional good character". They seem to be referencing Tolkien here, but I don't see that either. Sam was possibly the "goodest" character in the story, yet he was flawed. He couldn't see any good in Gollum even though Frodo could. Sam fought his demons along the way. It was his love of his friend that gave him strength to do what was necessary in the end. Although Tolkien may be guilty of making his good a little too good, and his evil a little too evil, one has to take into account the era that he wrote in and the type of epic story he was writing. Plus, I think all his characters were flawed enough to make them interesting.

A non-flawed character is a boring one, for the most part. But more importantly, the story is probably lacking if any character is not forced to make difficult choices that probably go against their normal nature.

I really found the last few comments funny -- about why did GRR kill off Eddard?? Well, gee, let's see, he was a flawed interesting character that believed in honor (probably too much) -- one of the few in GRRM's books that one could characterize as "good". And Bernard laments him getting killed off after saying that 'good' characters are boring?

Anyway, I realize that both men have a lot more to say on these topics than what they have in that interview. I've never read Bernard, but have read GRRM. GRRM knows what they are doing. I just found it a bit odd for them to word things the way they did.
 

CrastersBabies

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Eddard was my least favorite POV character in GoT because he just kept bungling things up by "doing the right thing." Not boring so much as hard-headed. I felt more sympathy for Cat, Arya, Sansa and the other children (losing their father) than I did for Ned in the end. :)

Great interview. Thanks for sharing!
 

thothguard51

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I think Stark dieing was even a shock to Cornwell...

In another interview with GRRM, he says he struggles with killing off characters but does so for the good of the story.

Edited to add...what I find interesting with the interview is that both have worked in TV before starting their writing careers and they both write with a goal in mind, somewhat.
 

Hallen

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Eddard was my least favorite POV character in GoT because he just kept bungling things up by "doing the right thing." Not boring so much as hard-headed. I felt more sympathy for Cat, Arya, Sansa and the other children (losing their father) than I did for Ned in the end. :)

Great interview. Thanks for sharing!

I felt bad for Ned because in the end, he compromised his ethics and honor in order to stay alive and be a father to his kids and, ultimately, for the good of the realm (misguided as that turned out to be). He compromised himself -- made that difficult choice that went against his nature. From a writing / story perspective, it was very tense. In my head, I was screaming at him to not do it, to stay true to his honor. Whatever way you viewed him as a character, he was very flawed in many ways, and faced very difficult conflicts that he had to deal with. That's good story telling and good character development. And he was flawed, but not evil.

Of course Joffery made a complete shamble of things by offing Ned. That wasn't the plan and ended up starting the war. In a way, it was the inciting event for the whole story.

I guess what I disagree with is the idea that a character has to have a dark side that they act on to be an interesting character. I don't think that GRRM or Cornwell believe that either. I suspect what they mean is that a character has to be real with depth and flaws like real people.
 

CrastersBabies

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Yeah, I found Ned flawed, absolutely! And saying he was my least favorite does not mean that I didn't enjoy reading his POVs, I just looked forward to them less. They were still brilliantly written! As were all of GRRM's POVs!

I'm not sure about the dark side. I think all people DO have a dark side, but I'm a Jungian at heart, so take that as you will. I don't think that a character's dark side has to be exploited in the book, but unless a wholly "good" character has flaws and inner conflict, he/she is really going to fall flat, imho.
 

jjdebenedictis

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Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who wasn't surprised by Ned dying.

I mean, that leg was festering. He was a goner either way.
 

Ian Isaro

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According to a quick wordcount...
GRRM talking: 740 words
Cornwell talking: 600 words

Just putting that out there.
 

Lhipenwhe

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Looking at the interview, I was pleasantly surprised that Martin didn't come off as how I'd imagine, i.e. full of himself; I'd built up the image that he was rather arrogant for some reason. I disagree with his talk on 'traditionally good' characters, though. I've found that morally 'grey' characters aren't necessarily more interesting then 'traditional' ones just because of their ambiguity; rather, I find reading on how any character justifies, and sees themselves, to be a determining factor.

As an aside, I didn't really care that much when Ned died. Yes, he was trying to do the 'honorable' thing (how I dislike the word), but honor means preciously little if you're dead, and even less if the consequences damn others besides yourself. He wasn't the one who endured the bulk of the suffering for his actions; the entirety of Westeros suffers for it. I did feel bad reading about some of his families reaction to his death such as Arya and Jon, but my dislike of Sansa and especially Cat counter-weighted most of my potential sympathy.
 

Hallen

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As an aside, I didn't really care that much when Ned died. Yes, he was trying to do the 'honorable' thing (how I dislike the word), but honor means preciously little if you're dead, and even less if the consequences damn others besides yourself. He wasn't the one who endured the bulk of the suffering for his actions; the entirety of Westeros suffers for it. I did feel bad reading about some of his families reaction to his death such as Arya and Jon, but my dislike of Sansa and especially Cat counter-weighted most of my potential sympathy.

Ned died. That's one hell of a lot bigger price than pain over the loss of a father. And honor is used both as an excuse for brutality and selfishness and for some of the most selfless and worthy sacrifices a person can make. Ned chose to forgo his personal honor in order to save his family and his realm against a greater evil. That was an honorable choice to make.

My point was mostly that Ned tried to do the right thing, the "good" thing with everything that he did. He wasn't a shallow character even though he was too predicable. But that was what he was supposed to be and it was his weakness that brought him down. He expected others to act honorably like he did even though he knew that was unrealistic. He couldn't help himself.

Cersei is much the same way but the opposite. She expects everybody around her to behave selfishly and brutally. That's her world view. So, she acts accordingly even though Ned would have worked with her given the option. Which one is more real? Is Cersei more interesting because she is basically the evil antagonist for the most part (even though there are many that fill that roll)? She is just as predictable as Ned, but opposite.

I think it depends on the individual and what they like to write and read. The statement that " a conventionally good character will always do the moral, right thing. Boring." is an over simplification and a tad one-sided.
 

Lhipenwhe

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Ned died. That's one hell of a lot bigger price than pain over the loss of a father. And honor is used both as an excuse for brutality and selfishness and for some of the most selfless and worthy sacrifices a person can make. Ned chose to forgo his personal honor in order to save his family and his realm against a greater evil. That was an honorable choice to make.

My point was mostly that Ned tried to do the right thing, the "good" thing with everything that he did. He wasn't a shallow character even though he was too predicable. But that was what he was supposed to be and it was his weakness that brought him down. He expected others to act honorably like he did even though he knew that was unrealistic. He couldn't help himself.

Cersei is much the same way but the opposite. She expects everybody around her to behave selfishly and brutally. That's her world view. So, she acts accordingly even though Ned would have worked with her given the option. Which one is more real? Is Cersei more interesting because she is basically the evil antagonist for the most part (even though there are many that fill that roll)? She is just as predictable as Ned, but opposite.

It's been some time since I read the books, but that's no excuse for my poorly written post. I think I meant to say that I understood the pain and suffering the family felt for Ned, but due to my dislike of some of the mentioned characters, I was unable to really feel anything emotional in regards to it. I rarely develop strong attachments to characters in general; I can count the number of times I truly emphasized with a character on one hand.

I hope that explains my thoughts.
 

thothguard51

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From what I have read, Cornwell's character Sharpe seems to be just the opposite of Ned, an honorable rogue and that has not turned readers off.

It is also interesting that Ned and Sharpe were both played by Sean Bean.

According to the article noted above, Bean playing Sharpe on a BBC series is why GRRM and the HBO producer chose Bean. It is also interesting that the BBC handled the battle scenes pretty much like HBO is doing and Cornwell is OK with that fact as tens of thousands of extras would put the production cost out of reach...

For TV I agree, but for large scale movies, I still want to see the large battles as depicted in the books, and not with CGI. Think Kingdom of Heaven or LOTR Trilogy.
 

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I've never read any Cornwell, but his books sound fascinating. Can anyone tell me a good place to start (he has lots of books!)?
 

thothguard51

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I haven't read any Bernard Cornwell either, but this article and GRRM views of his writing made me go searching on Amazon.

I started with, The Last Kingdom which is about the Danes/Vickings. I plan on getting the Sharpe novels as well and of course, I start with Book 1 in the series. Amazon has them all...

If you don't have an e-reader, you can order them in PB and some in HB...
 

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I really found the last few comments funny -- about why did GRR kill off Eddard?? .

Because the rest of the story could not have happened with Eddard still alive. His death was like the assassination of the Archduke that touched off WWI.
 

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I started with, The Last Kingdom which is about the Danes/Vickings. I plan on getting the Sharpe novels as well and of course, I start with Book 1 in the series. Amazon has them all...

I love that series. The first book is good but it really takes off in the second volume.
 

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I've never read any Cornwell, but his books sound fascinating. Can anyone tell me a good place to start (he has lots of books!)?

I love the Anglo-Saxon series that starts with The Last Kingdom.
 

thothguard51

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I love the Anglo-Saxon series that starts with The Last Kingdom.

This is the first book where Sharpe is introduced...from what I have read. Each book in the series is a complete stand alone adventure as I understand them. There are what 6 or 7 of them now.

Might take me a while but while I am waiting for GRRM to get around to book 6 and 7, I should have time...
 

thothguard51

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Just finished the Last Kingdom from Bernard Shaw and I have to say it is a marvelous piece of writing that gives the flavor of the time period.

I wasn't sure I was going to like the first person past narrative, but once I got into the book, I loved this PoV.

I would highly recommend this book to anyone who loves a good adventure story that is based on historical facts. Bernard Cornwell is a marvelous writer and storyteller.

Now, onto the second book of the series...
 
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