Limiting your characters

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TheIT

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How do you keep your characters from turning into Superman? Part of the fun of fantasy and science fiction is to create characters with special abilities like magic or give them technologies which make them nigh invincible, but reading about a character who can't be defeated gets boring. What do you do to give your characters an edge but still keep them vulnerable?
 

My-Immortal

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A flaw.

Even Superman is weakened by Kryptonite.
 

Andrew Jameson

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Good question, and one that can be answered in multiple ways. A rule of thumb, of course, is magic extracts a price. What that price is, is up to you. Maybe the character becomes exhausted after performing magic. Or maybe he needs to complete an elaborate, time-consuming ritual. Or he can only work magic at certain times. Or there's a randomness about the actual effects. Or magic requires a sacrifice (what are you willing to give up?). Or "magic sniffers" seek to destroy anyone using magic. Or using magic decreases one's lifespan. Tons of possibilities.
 

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weakness

My-Immortal said:
A flaw.

Even Superman is weakened by Kryptonite.

Not any more. He's been immune to kryptonite for a good while now.
 

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character

TheIT said:
How do you keep your characters from turning into Superman? Part of the fun of fantasy and science fiction is to create characters with special abilities like magic or give them technologies which make them nigh invincible, but reading about a character who can't be defeated gets boring. What do you do to give your characters an edge but still keep them vulnerable?

Always make the bad guy more powerful than the good guy. If the good wins through character and effort and intelligence, rather than from being stronger, it makes for a better story.

I think good protagonists are always weaker than the antagonist.
 

My-Immortal

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Jamesaritchie said:
Not any more. He's been immune to kryptonite for a good while now.

Then what is his flaw now? (at least I got part of the post right...'a flaw') :)
 

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Andrew Jameson said:
Good question, and one that can be answered in multiple ways. A rule of thumb, of course, is magic extracts a price. What that price is, is up to you. Maybe the character becomes exhausted after performing magic. Or maybe he needs to complete an elaborate, time-consuming ritual. Or he can only work magic at certain times. Or there's a randomness about the actual effects. Or magic requires a sacrifice (what are you willing to give up?). Or "magic sniffers" seek to destroy anyone using magic. Or using magic decreases one's lifespan. Tons of possibilities.

All very good ideas, Andrew!

Personally, I think any use of magic (unassisted by some kind of magical item, at least) should at least wear out the character. Any time you expend any kind of energy to do something, you... use up energy. The magic user should become weary after a certain amount, or need to get their energy back by eating soon after or right before. (If you can't tell, this is what I use. There's also stronger battle magic, through the evil version of their magic, but to use it just once would guarantee you turning evil eventually)

Another possibility is that it's not qualities of the magic/abilities that keep the character from becoming Superman, but his own personal qualities... a character flaw. If your character is a shy push-over, he might fight the idea of going into battle, & once there, it might be easy for the Big Bad to demoralize him. If he's a narcissist, he might get overly cocky & make stupid mistakes.

Then there's also the idea of throwing something that needs to be fought other than w/ pure strength. One example I can come up with is in the show Buffy, the Vampire Slayer. She fought Big Bads of increasing strength through the fifth season when she fights a goddess. Where do you go from there, once you defeat a god? Well, your next battle comes from somewhere a little closer to home, like one of your friends. All the physical strength in the world won't help if in the end you really don't want to use it.
 

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I've always been partial to the "there should be a flaw in there somewhere" mentality, kind of like superman and kryptonite.

If you use any magic, make sure there's some kind of cost (in my universe, they can only cast so much before wearing out, as it heavily drains the caster's stamina, or something like that), and make sure it's only so powerful. If the caster becomes god-like, it'll be kind of boring, particularly if said character was "of noble blood and didn't know it, so that's why he can summon "god mode" hehe". Heck, one of my stories has a commoner save the day simply because I'm so tired of it always being some noble hero from a high birth or status. I want an "average joe" to be a hero for a change hehe (similiar to Frodo, but he actually fights well. Obviously he'll have "nobility" friends, but they're mostly just support, not the main characters).

To use something a little less orthodox, in the video game Metal Gear Solid, your character (Solid Snake) talks to one of the scientists (Octacon) that created this super weapon (a giant walking mech capable of launching nukes without creating a trail, think it used magnets to hurl the nukes at targets). It's virtually indestructible, save for this one thing the scientist deliberately left on it. While it's an obvious weakness you can exploit (with Stinger missiles), the scientist says he put it on because he wanted the machine to have some "character" to it, a flaw of some sort (the Metal Gear games have really good storylines too, they'd make better movies with their own in game cinema cut scenes than some of the recent movies coming out lol). The other Metal Gear games are kind of like this too, but with some twists (in part 2, you have to fight anywhere from 3-25 of the giant mechs, and in part 3, you're riding in a motorcycle being chased by that giant mech, which is really cool because that thing moves extremely fast and you're also being pursued by soviet soldiers at the same time).

The point is, have some kind of flaw, or weakness. Sure, magic could cost nothing, but it would make for a weak story, and nobody's perfect (at least in this mortal realm hehe). And yes, definitely make the bad guy stronger, at least initially, or else why bother writing it in the first place? You might as well have the hero wave his hand and smite the bad guy on page 5 and end your story there lol.

Weakness could also take the form of another character. Movies do this all the time, where the hero is seemingly invincible, till the bad guy captures his sidekick/girlfriend. I've seen it go a lot of ways, but usually this will cause the hero to stop doing whatever he was doing to kick the bad guy's butt (if you want to make it more dramatic, have the hero not care about anyone, and is resistant to developing any feelings for anyone other than themselves, probably due to a tragic past, and this "person in trouble" gradually breaks that wall away. Yeah, kind of cliched now, but if done right can be pretty cool). If you go this route however, make sure it's unpredictable (for example, if the hero finds an elixir that can bring someone near death back to life, and then the bad guy captures his sidekick and girlfriend, and tells him to choose who he wants to save, and then shoots both of them. This kind of scenario would be intense, because if the hero cares for both, it won't matter who he saves, since one of them will die regardless. You could "cop-out" and have a 2nd elixir hidden away somewhere, but again, make it unpredictable).

Just some random ideas I'm tossing out (lol, I might have to use some of them myself :D). Take it for what you will.
 

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TheIT said:
How do you keep your characters from turning into Superman? What do you do to give your characters an edge but still keep them vulnerable?

Know what their weakness/flaw is ahead of time. I tend to write up a short character sheet on all of my main characters beforehand, mostly to keep track of things like hometown, eye color, little details that work their way into the story and have to be kept track of. I use part of a character sheet from my online RPGing, which includes a "Weakness/Flaws" section at the bottom. If you know ahead of time that casting a spell gives your hero migraines, then he will control himself.

Several characters in my current project (science fiction) possess some form of psychic power. As I created the backstory for these abilities, I built a weakness right into the strength: the ability to manifest each particular power is phyiscal, not mystical, and therefore causes physical pain in the form of headaches and nosebleeds. So any time I felt the urge to let one of them loose, I remembered the consequences, and backed down.

Build the weakness into the strength, and Superman will stay out of the story.
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What about a flaw of personality? Not so much a limit to their magical power or strength, but a character flaw that keeps them from reaching their true potential? For example, maybe they're paranoid and that gets them into trouble; or they are plagued by self-doubt; or they are easily distracted or overly concerned about apperances or something. The Greeks and Shakespeare all had plenty of characters who were all-powerful but were undone by their pride.

Or, perhaps, their magical power or strength came at a physical price; blindness, or an illness that is slowly killing them and weakening them; or migraine headaches that incapacitate them for a long time...etc, etc.

A flaw that exists simply to serve as a flaw might come across as a contrived plot device (like the exhaust port on the Death Star). But something that serves a purpose far beyond being the hero's achilles heel can really enrich a story.
 

Andrew Jameson

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Captain_Campion said:
What about a flaw of personality? Not so much a limit to their magical power or strength, but a character flaw that keeps them from reaching their true potential? For example, maybe they're paranoid and that gets them into trouble; or they are plagued by self-doubt; or they are easily distracted or overly concerned about apperances or something. The Greeks and Shakespeare all had plenty of characters who were all-powerful but were undone by their pride.
That may work for a character. However, I think that would be unsatisfying for a world of magic that contains multiple magic-workers. Your character Scully the kitchen wench may be plagued by issues of self-worth that impede her effectiveness as a mage, but that won't explain why Snobissa McHaughtypants the heiress, living in the shire next door, hasn't taken over the world with her unstoppable mage-fu.
 

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Dan Jurgens -[size=-1] "I find what Superman can't do more interesting than what he can."[/size]
 

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Andrew Jameson said:
That may work for a character. However, I think that would be unsatisfying for a world of magic that contains multiple magic-workers. Your character Scully the kitchen wench may be plagued by issues of self-worth that impede her effectiveness as a mage, but that won't explain why Snobissa McHaughtypants the heiress, living in the shire next door, hasn't taken over the world with her unstoppable mage-fu.

Whoops, my bad, I thought I was posting on a writer's site where things like character are important. Or maybe I just don't understand fantasy. Sigh. Plug in another cookie-cutter plot contrivance, I suppose.
 

TheIT

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Thanks for the replies so far. This has been interesting.

Captain Campion, I believe what Andrew Jackson meant is that a personality flaw would work better as a limiting factor for a single character, but not for an entire system of magic. Unless the magic system itself has some inherent limitations, what would prevent a well-adjusted mage from taking over the entire world? It seems unreasonable to suggest that every practitioner of magic would have a character flaw which prevented them from excelling in their craft.

James Ritchie said to make the bad guy more powerful than the good guys. I like the concept, it's always enjoyable to see the underdog get ahead, but what if the story doesn't contain a specific bad guy? The story I'm thinking of would be more of a man vs. the environment situation. My guess here for limitations would be to take the characters out of their comfort zones, either physically or mentally. Sherlock Holmes might know London like the back of his hand, but I doubt he'd fare so well on the streets of New York, or telling bedtime stories to children. Throwing him somewhere else would force him to stretch to meet the situation.
 

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TheIT said:
Thanks for the replies so far. This has been interesting.

Captain Campion, I believe what Andrew Jackson meant is that a personality flaw would work better as a limiting factor for a single character, but not for an entire system of magic. Unless the magic system itself has some inherent limitations, what would prevent a well-adjusted mage from taking over the entire world? It seems unreasonable to suggest that every practitioner of magic would have a character flaw which prevented them from excelling in their craft.

James Ritchie said to make the bad guy more powerful than the good guys. I like the concept, it's always enjoyable to see the underdog get ahead, but what if the story doesn't contain a specific bad guy? The story I'm thinking of would be more of a man vs. the environment situation. My guess here for limitations would be to take the characters out of their comfort zones, either physically or mentally. Sherlock Holmes might know London like the back of his hand, but I doubt he'd fare so well on the streets of New York, or telling bedtime stories to children. Throwing him somewhere else would force him to stretch to meet the situation.

But even 'well-adjusted' people / wizards should still have some sort of personality flaw. That flaw doesn't necessarily have to limit the magic-use, but it would help to reduce the cookie-cutter way many of these near-all-powerful wizards seem to be portrayed.
 

TheIT

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My-Immortal said:
But even 'well-adjusted' people / wizards should still have some sort of personality flaw. That flaw doesn't necessarily have to limit the magic-use, but it would help to reduce the cookie-cutter way many of these near-all-powerful wizards seem to be portrayed.

Agreed, to some extent. "Perfect" anythings are boring. Shades of gray are much more interesting to read about. But should the limitation be personality or something inherent in the system? Taking Gandalf vs. Voldemort as the cookie cutter extremes, we've got the benevolent wizard who advises but rarely intervenes, and the all powerful evil dude who revels in his power. Once you create an all powerful character, how do you keep them from taking over the story? Why can't Gandalf just take the ring to Mordor himself? Why doesn't Voldemort just crush anyone who stands in his way? Because we wouldn't have a story. Is it a personality flaw which stops Gandalf from acting, or a moral stance? What's stopping Voldemort?

One of the pitfalls of fantasy seems to be the whole good vs. evil concept. No one is totally good, just as no one is totally evil, yet a lot of the powerful characters we read about never display any other traits.
 

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Superman

My-Immortal said:
Then what is his flaw now? (at least I got part of the post right...'a flaw') :)

I don't think weakness to kryptonite is a flaw, it's just a weakness. Different things, to my mind. I'm not sure Superman ever had a flaw.

The writers simply pit Superman against an antagonist who's at least as powerful, and often more so, than he is.

I never bought the kryptonite weakness, anyway. Superman is so fast that kryptonite couldn't harm him. He can move and fly faster than light, which means he could outrun kryptonite radiation, and he could then swoop back in and annihilate anyone or anything trying to use kryptonite against him, and then be gone before he was harmed.

I'm not sure many comics are good sources for SF and fantasy. Very few are the least bit logical, or stand up to close scrutiny.

In comics, I'd say Batman is the best example of a good model for fiction. He may lack super powers, or supernatural powers, but what good is an all-powerful hero unless you're a child?
 

Andrew Jameson

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TheIT said:
Captain Campion, I believe what Andrew Jackson meant is that a personality flaw would work better as a limiting factor for a single character, but not for an entire system of magic. Unless the magic system itself has some inherent limitations, what would prevent a well-adjusted mage from taking over the entire world? It seems unreasonable to suggest that every practitioner of magic would have a character flaw which prevented them from excelling in their craft.
Er, right. I'm not exactly sure what in my comment instigated the snarky reply from Captain Campion. Character issues and personality are sort of by definition limited to individual characters.

If you have a world where multiple people have magic power, then limiting the scope of the power becomes a world-building issue. In a world where mages are infinitely more powerful than everyone else, they will wind up running the show, or there had better be a plausible reason why not. I don't think you can adequately explain that with personality flaws.

Now, if your world has a single person (your protagonist, probably) or a tiny few (your protagonist and the villain?) with a special power, then it's no longer a world-building constraint that you explain why the world isn't run by mages.

And, I should point out, the existance of inherent limitations on magical systems and the existance of character flaws are not mutually exclusive. Crafting a well-built world does not prevent crafting interesting characters.
 

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TheIT said:
Agreed, to some extent. "Perfect" anythings are boring. Shades of gray are much more interesting to read about. But should the limitation be personality or something inherent in the system? Taking Gandalf vs. Voldemort as the cookie cutter extremes, we've got the benevolent wizard who advises but rarely intervenes, and the all powerful evil dude who revels in his power. Once you create an all powerful character, how do you keep them from taking over the story? Why can't Gandalf just take the ring to Mordor himself? Why doesn't Voldemort just crush anyone who stands in his way? Because we wouldn't have a story. Is it a personality flaw which stops Gandalf from acting, or a moral stance? What's stopping Voldemort?

One of the pitfalls of fantasy seems to be the whole good vs. evil concept. No one is totally good, just as no one is totally evil, yet a lot of the powerful characters we read about never display any other traits.

If I remember correctly (and I've seen the movie more recently than read the book so perhaps this is not the same in the book), but Gandalf didn't take the ring himself because he was afraid its power would overcome even him. Someone weaker (powerwise), such as Frodo carried the ring because there was less power in Frodo to corrupt. (not saying Frodo is 'weak' but he had no innate magic and was relatively innocent and naive).

I prefer reading and writing stories where most of the characters are shades of gray. Villains are the 'heros' of their own stories and so I write them that way. Their desires however are opposed by the protagonist and generally go against the 'norm' of society.

Take care all -
 

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Perhaps the easiest way of toning down a "Superman" is to scale down the power levels a bit. (They did exactly this to Superman himself in the recent animated series.) Figure out how much power your characters actually need, and keep yourself to that.

One virtue of magic and Clarke's-Law technology (i.e. indistinguishable from magic) is that you can adjust the parameters of the world to fit what you're trying to do. However, you have to be internally consistent, but that's something different.

I'm a great fan of character flaws, but you have to be careful to keep these within reason as well. Otherwise you'll end up with angst overload.
 

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Andrew Jameson said:
Er, right. I'm not exactly sure what in my comment instigated the snarky reply from Captain Campion.

QUOTE]

My post was in response to the original theme of this thread that said nothing of large-scale magic users but of the idea of limiting individual characters (as in one) from becoming supermen. I took your response as being rather snarky in itself.

Obviously this is a case of miscommunication. My apologies for any snarkiness contained inside my response.

In a related note, would snarkiness be the type of character flaw that might keep a powerful wizard from achieving greatness? ;)
 

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Captain_Campion said:
Andrew Jameson said:
Er, right. I'm not exactly sure what in my comment instigated the snarky reply from Captain Campion.

QUOTE]

My post was in response to the original theme of this thread that said nothing of large-scale magic users but of the idea of limiting individual characters (as in one) from becoming supermen. I took your response as being rather snarky in itself.

Obviously this is a case of miscommunication. My apologies for any snarkiness contained inside my response.

In a related note, would snarkiness be the type of character flaw that might keep a powerful wizard from achieving greatness? ;)

I think it might make for a fun read....
 

TheIT

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Captain_Campion said:
In a related note, would snarkiness be the type of character flaw that might keep a powerful wizard from achieving greatness? ;)

That could be fun. What about a world where magic has a "nicety" factor, so if someone is rude their spells stop working? Maybe they have to say please first?

In Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar, I believe magic was considered an evil force so using magic twisted the magic user physically. Anyone who wanted power had to accept the consequences, so snarkiness would probably be considered an asset. :)

As for limitations, I'm interested in discussion both general and specific. For specific characters, internal flaws are definitely a limiting factor. External circumstances can limit as well. Gandalf couldn't touch the ring directly because he would be overwhelmed, but he could aid Frodo on the quest. A general limitation could be something like the D & D system of magic where magic users only have a limited number of spells they can cast during a day. Or something like Star Trek where the dilithium crystals blew up at the drop of a hat so the ship kept breaking.

If a character is shown to have a great deal of power, something needs to be done storywise to prevent them from waltzing in and fixing everything with a hand wave.
 
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