really never thought I would

TamaraLynne · Jan 13, 2012

Never thought about it till now...

A few years back I found things on the net about the history in America telling of children who worked..I'm not sure if they were orphaned or told they had to work to pay off a family debt...but my heart broke into little pieces when I read the little bit that was posted.

They did not get to eat much. They slept on the ground with no blankets..they would get sick and have no medical attention...they were just little tiny kids...alone and scared and overworked...they even died alone...it was so sad what I read..

I'm not sure what time in history it took place...

If I did find out...how much research goes into finding out more about that era? Where does one go for the research?

It was so sad............no one even remembers them...

TamaraLynne · Jan 13, 2012

Okay I found the era...

http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_history.html

Trying to find what I read years ago....and finding alot of things on child labor in the process

Puma · Jan 14, 2012

I think you'll find there's been a lot of child labor from the first beginnings of the country up into the 20th century - indentured servants, children who were split from parents to work and pay their passage to the US when they arrived, orphan trains, etc. Families were large and it was not at all unusual for older children to be sent to work elsewhere to pay for their livelihood. And yes, there are some very sad tales. I do a lot of genealogy work and I've found numerous children in my families who were working outside the home at ages 13 and 14 and even some on the 1880 census where they were not even living with their parents. It will take some digging to put a story together, but I think there's the potential for a good one in child labor. Puma

Ari Meermans · Jan 14, 2012

Read about Frances Perkins, the Secretary of Labor under FDR and first woman cabinet member. She championed workers' rights and helped craft many of the labor laws still in effect, including the child labor laws. Just about any good biography on her will detail the uphill battle she fought in getting these laws enacted. Reading about the opposition's reasoning gave me a lot to think about in terms of the conditions workers had to endure up to that point.

TamaraLynne · Jan 14, 2012

As I'm searching the net I have been sharing what I find with my kids...they are so interested in how kids grew up back then and they do not want to leave my side as I find more and more pictures of the children from back then. Lewis Hines also is a very interesting person who sacrificed his life as a teacher to become a photographer so that he could document what was happening.

Soooooo many children that someone can wrap their arms around and love as a MC in a book ...to tell their story.

The forgotten children from days gone by.........I am primarily interested in the orphaned children...some who were really kidnapped children and sent far away to work...some were not kidnapped but they were sent away from home to work also.

This is something they do not teach in school........Yes we knew about farmers and their children... even back in my day they would stay home to work the family farm and be excused from school...but it does not even touch on what really happened in the past.

donroc · Jan 14, 2012

Excluding child actors, many of the early film stars of the 1930s and 40s -- Linda Darnell, Joan Leslie, and June Allyson started careers in their early teens either in mature movie roles in films or dancing in musicals on Broadway.

TamaraLynne · Jan 14, 2012

Puma,Ari,and Donroc, I so appreciate your input!

I have been going back in time in my head to feel the time period and what seemed normal to most if not necessary to some....I'm actually getting a feeling that alot of adults would have been angry about their children not being able to work. They depended so much on the children to help monetarily in family situations.
Lots and lots of controversy...I think if we were to peek in on that era we would be very surprised at the reaction and mindset of adults and parents back in those days.
Kids had to grow up so fast.......and times were not easy.

Raula · Jan 15, 2012

I'm coming from a British perspective, so it might different on your side of the Atlantic, but here children are taught about child labour and working conditions during the Victorian period (19th Century), both at primary school level (aged 6-11) and secondary (teenagers). Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist is the most classical example used in schools, but there's also Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience, which I studied at A-level. Whilst it won't inform your immediate research, I would certainly recommend looking at some Victorian literature - especially Blake!

You now need to narrow down your research to a particular time and place, otherwise you'll find there's too much to look at. You'd certainly find this topic is popular for both Young Adult and junior age literature, if that's the road you wish to go down, then your kids can be very much involved in the process.

TamaraLynne · Jan 16, 2012

Raula,

Yep,I think I know but there are two areas that I'm looking at and they are about a hundred years apart. I mainly want to do an Oliver Twist with a twist

Of course using different children and circumstances.

We learned of Oliver twist but not in such a way as to say..."this really happened!"

I'm working on a book right now in the fantasy fiction area but I know I will get to this book because my heart is in it so much...almost as if the children are calling to me to write it but I know they are in heaven and very happy...but it is something to look back upon and to know and feel what those children felt...what they went through...and it might open the eyes for some to understand why it should not happen again...

JWNelson · Jan 17, 2012

You might also want to do a bit of research into child labor laws, particularly US Supreme Court decisions like Hammer v. Dagenhart (1918), in which the Court struck down the Keating-Owen Act (the first federal child labor law), declaring it as violating a child's right to contract his/her labor. Interesting how a minor could "sign" a contract when, in many instances, they could not read or write.

It was not until the FDR Administration and the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 that limits were placed on child labor.

While I am no Dickens scholar, I do believe that "Oliver Twist" was influential in its time in pointing out to Britons just how children, particularly those of the poor, were treated and the brutal conditions under which they lived.

Good luck!

TamaraLynne said:
Raula,

Yep,I think I know but there are two areas that I'm looking at and they are about a hundred years apart. I mainly want to do an Oliver Twist with a twist Of course using different children and circumstances.

We learned of Oliver twist but not in such a way as to say..."this really happened!"

I'm working on a book right now in the fantasy fiction area but I know I will get to this book because my heart is in it so much...almost as if the children are calling to me to write it but I know they are in heaven and very happy...but it is something to look back upon and to know and feel what those children felt...what they went through...and it might open the eyes for some to understand why it should not happen again...

Deb Kinnard · Jan 17, 2012

You might also investigate the orphan trains that brought children across the US in the 19th century. Some of those ended up as indentured servants. I knew a Christian writer who'd written a story about them several years ago, but could not sell it. Maybe bringing a different voice and a different perspective to the topic will pique the publishers' interest.

Stlight · Jan 17, 2012

JWNelson said:
Interesting how a minor could "sign" a contract when, in many instances, they could not read or write.

Good luck!

Has literacy ever been a requirement for adults to sign contracts?

Hip-Hop-a-potamus · Jan 17, 2012

Have you heard about the Home Children yet? I've been married to a Canadian for almost 12 years, and moved up here over 2 years ago.

I just found out about this several years ago. Very very sad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Children

Deb Kinnard · Jan 18, 2012

Stlight said:
Has literacy ever been a requirement for adults to sign contracts?

No. Even today, a person who does not write can sign him/herself into a hospital and consent to treatment by making their mark ("X") and having it witnessed by two unrelated persons that s/he has marked as understanding and agreeing with the consent. I'm not a lawyer, but deal with health care consents all the time. I believe what applies to health care consents also applies to contracts in law. Literacy is not required.

fireluxlou · Jan 18, 2012

TamaraLynne said:
As I'm searching the net I have been sharing what I find with my kids...they are so interested in how kids grew up back then and they do not want to leave my side as I find more and more pictures of the children from back then. Lewis Hines also is a very interesting person who sacrificed his life as a teacher to become a photographer so that he could document what was happening.

Soooooo many children that someone can wrap their arms around and love as a MC in a book ...to tell their story.

The forgotten children from days gone by.........I am primarily interested in the orphaned children...some who were really kidnapped children and sent far away to work...some were not kidnapped but they were sent away from home to work also.

This is something they do not teach in school........Yes we knew about farmers and their children... even back in my day they would stay home to work the family farm and be excused from school...but it does not even touch on what really happened in the past.

I watched this kids programme on BBC the other month called about the forgotten children of the Industrial Revolution. It focused on how children were the forgotten ones who helped build cities like Manchester.

They were taken from their families in London to work in the cotton mills in the countryside. Sometimes their families were told they had died or they were just taken off the street.

Here's an article on it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ew-book-says-misery-helped-forge-Britain.html

Here you go the whole programme:
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87eVOpbcoVo
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_zJeDKE9vI
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJAr9gPyvms
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPE59bn0UcQ

I think the Industrial Revolution has to be one of the most interesting parts of history.

TamaraLynne · Jan 18, 2012

Deb Kinnard said:
You might also investigate the orphan trains that brought children across the US in the 19th century. Some of those ended up as indentured servants. I knew a Christian writer who'd written a story about them several years ago, but could not sell it. Maybe bringing a different voice and a different perspective to the topic will pique the publishers' interest.

Thank you Deb

TamaraLynne · Jan 18, 2012

Hip-Hop-a-potamus said:
Have you heard about the Home Children yet? I've been married to a Canadian for almost 12 years, and moved up here over 2 years ago.

I just found out about this several years ago. Very very sad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Children

Yes!...I found it the other night when I made this thread...

I'm finding sooo much...so many stories could be told on what children went through.

So much I did not know. Thank you everyone for your input on this thread...means so much to me )))hugs(((

I still have not found that one site that tugged at my heart years ago.

TamaraLynne · Jan 18, 2012

fireluxlou said:
I watched this kids programme on BBC the other month called about the forgotten children of the Industrial Revolution. It focused on how children were the forgotten ones who helped build cities like Manchester.

They were taken from their families in London to work in the cotton mills in the countryside. Sometimes their families were told they had died or they were just taken off the street.

Here's an article on it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ew-book-says-misery-helped-forge-Britain.html

Here you go the whole programme:
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87eVOpbcoVo
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_zJeDKE9vI
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJAr9gPyvms
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPE59bn0UcQ

I think the Industrial Revolution has to be one of the most interesting parts of history.

Thank you ! I did not see that site in my search.

TamaraLynne · Jan 18, 2012

JWNelson said:
You might also want to do a bit of research into child labor laws, particularly US Supreme Court decisions like Hammer v. Dagenhart (1918), in which the Court struck down the Keating-Owen Act (the first federal child labor law), declaring it as violating a child's right to contract his/her labor. Interesting how a minor could "sign" a contract when, in many instances, they could not read or write.

It was not until the FDR Administration and the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 that limits were placed on child labor.

While I am no Dickens scholar, I do believe that "Oliver Twist" was influential in its time in pointing out to Britons just how children, particularly those of the poor, were treated and the brutal conditions under which they lived.

Good luck!

Thank you JWNelson

so do you think Oliver Twist became popular because it educated others at that time?

TamaraLynne · Jan 18, 2012

Even a innocent budding romance could be written about one of these children....even they fell in love.

Even close to as true life story on a child...of course it would be fiction because of the MC would be constructed from a forgotten child but could embody truth.

Aleksandra · Jan 19, 2012

Possible US story lines

Beverly Swerling had characters in her book series of New York City(aka: New Amersterdam) in City of Dreams, Shadowland,City of Glory, etc.
I believe there are 4 in the series.

Swerling had many characters of castoff children, indentured children, sailors, children sold into prostitution, slave children and simply vagrant children. Before Church or municipal facilities were available for such children, they basically were let loose to be used. You may wish to check some of her sources, while she used these children as peripheral characters, her research is extensive on the periods of the 17th to 19th century New York.

Another American story line could be the children who worked on the Erie Canal, both in its building and later walking with the mules, and working on the canal boats. Extensive resources on these are available through the Erie Canal historical online sites. Early on these children were cast off in the winter months when the canal closed with little pay for their seven months work. Period 1817-through the 20th century.

JWNelson · Jan 19, 2012

Stlight said:
Has literacy ever been a requirement for adults to sign contracts?

If it were, all that "make your X" dialogue in movies and TV wouldn't make sense.

But we were/are discussing children, and, while I do not know the laws of the period under discussion, I do not believe that minors may sign a contract without a parent or guardian (at least today).
[A personal anecdote: when my grandfather's father passed away at a young age leaving a large family for his widow to support, at age 14 my grandfather was apprenticed to a grocer to learn the trade. This was in England, late 19th century, and his mother had to sign the document.]

JWNelson · Jan 19, 2012

TamaraLynne said:
Thank you JWNelson
so do you think Oliver Twist became popular because it educated others at that time?

Again, no Dickens scholar here, but I think it was popular because it was a ripping yarn written by one of the most popular writers of the day (and Charles knew just where his readers' heart-strings lay, I imagine).

really never thought I would

TamaraLynne

TamaraLynne

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Ari Meermans

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter

TamaraLynne

donroc

Historicals and Horror rule

TamaraLynne

Raula

TamaraLynne

JWNelson

JWNelson

Deb Kinnard

Stlight

ideas are floating where they will

Hip-Hop-a-potamus

My rhymes are bottomless

Deb Kinnard

fireluxlou

TamaraLynne

TamaraLynne

TamaraLynne

TamaraLynne

TamaraLynne

Aleksandra

JWNelson

JWNelson

JWNelson

JWNelson