Rhetorical question or rhetorical statement?

You would have to make a comment in the narrative to make that clear.

If it's a question it requires a question mark, whether an answer is expected or not.

Writing a question and leaving off the question mark isn't the best way to achieve clarity.

And raising or lowering pitch is of itself no guarantee for or against either making a question or expecting an answer.

The way I've seen it done is to leave off the question mark and immediately tell why.

"All writers feel that way, don't they." It wasn't a question.

Elaine could think of no reasonable answer to that calm assurance.

Otherwise, rhetorical or not, questioning tone or not, use the mark.

One thing that bugs me... 'rhetorical question' in itself says it's a question, and questions get question marks to go with them. Logic tells you that.

But a rhetorical question isn't the same as a normal question: they're not wanting to gain information, or even engage in a 'question-answer' reply. Why, then, should it have a question mark?

Logic kicks back in and argues it still needs a question because it's askling for some kind of reaction, (reflection/summation?).... and therefore needs a question mark.

And then I think -- why the feck do I do this to myself all the time. (I can't answer it, so I don't expect anyone else to even try, lol.)

I give my rhetoricals a question mark most of the time, but not always; despite the grammatical debate on it, it's simply comes down to my stylistic chioce:

"Think you've had it rough, don't you."
"I--"
"It's not a question-answer session we're having here. You'd know what one of those were if you'd bothered to drag your ass into school. Been as you haven't, you shut up and listen from here on in."

vs:

"You took something for the pain, didn't you?"
He didn't answer.
"You're nineteen: I don't do the rhetorical where you're concerned. I ask, you answer. Simple."

There's this from grammar girl:
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/rhetorical-questions-question-mark.aspx

Someone else may be able to help with the CMOS.

If it's simply a matter of style between you and your editor, then talk to them about where you stand on this. But it might be that the editor is pointing out it's not just a problem with choice, but also clarity.

.

Fallen said:

One thing that bugs me... 'rhetorical question' in itself says it's a question, and questions get question marks to go with them. Logic tells you that.

But a rhetorical question isn't the same as a normal question: they're not wanting to gain information, or even engage in a 'question-answer' reply. Why, then, should it have a question mark?

Logic kicks back in and argues it still needs a question because it's askling for some kind of reaction, (reflection/summation?).... and therefore needs a question mark.

And then I think -- why the feck do I do this to myself all the time. (I can't answer it, so I don't expect anyone else to even try, lol.)

I give my rhetoricals a question mark most of the time, but not always; despite the grammatical debate on it, it's simply comes down to my stylistic chioce:

"Think you've had it rough, don't you."

Now, Fallen, I don't sight read that dialogue as a rhetorical question.

Without the question mark, I instinctively hesitate because the sentence seems unfinished, then realise - from what follows - that it's meant as a rhetorical question minus a question mark.

With the question mark there, no hesitation and I instantly know what's being said.

Maybe just me.

"I--"
"It's not a question-answer session we're having here. You'd know what one of those were if you'd bothered to drag your ass into school. Been as you haven't, you shut up and listen from here on in."

vs:

"You took something for the pain, didn't you?"
He didn't answer.
"You're nineteen: I don't do the rhetorical where you're concerned. I ask, you answer. Simple."

There's this from grammar girl:
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/rhetorical-questions-question-mark.aspx

Someone else may be able to help with the CMOS.

If it's simply a matter of style between you and your editor, then talk to them about where you stand on this. But it might be that the editor is pointing out it's not just a problem with choice, but also clarity.

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A good point on clarity, Buft, and why, between Editor and author, a compromise should be reached. Maybe an editor would argue it's clear enough as a rhetorical WITH the question mark because it's a RQ that is well known? Or that emphasis is too overt and the example is shite go for the covert?

"Think you're tough, don't you?"

ALM said:

I need to be able to cite authorities in order to satisfy editors.

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Responders forgot this part, didn't they?

Can't blame 'em, can we?

My Chicago Manuel of Style doesn't address the matter, wonder why?

My Harbrace Handbook only shows a question mark after rhetorical queries, so that's your answer, right?

Whether or not a question requires an answer, it's still a question.

Use a question mark.

"Don't they?" is correct. "Don't they." never is.

Fallen said:

But a rhetorical question isn't the same as a normal question:

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In the simple matter of punctuation it is, as Bufty has said. Is this so complicated?

caw

blacbird said:

In the simple matter of punctuation it is, as Bufty has said. Is this so complicated?

caw

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There have been some strange suggestions to combat the problem:

The rhetorical question mark (percontation mark)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question_mark#Percontation_point

The fact that people still ask 'do I?' means that it's still a problem. Maybe because there is no direct source people can cite one way or the other.

It'd be good to see which side publishers fall on the issue.

People still ask "Am I allowed to have chapters of X-amount of words in my novel?"

Just because people ask a question, doesn't mean there's any general doubt over the answer among experienced writers.

Chase said:

My Chicago Manuel of Style doesn't address the matter, wonder why?

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Niether does the Oxford usage. Coincidence or what!

Grammar girl does, a little.

As for any other sources for or against....?

How you punctuate depends on what you think punctuation is supposed to accomplish.

If you think that punctuation should represent the syntax of the sentence, use a questionmark.

If you allow that punctuation can also represent the pragmatics of a sentence (the purpose of the tag), then things get complicated, as you'll sometimes use questionmarks and sometimes full stops, and there is no simple guidline to tell you when one is more appropriate than others.

First, let me say that if you use a full stop to punctuate a tag question, you're not doing it because it's a rhetorical question. Would anyone use a full stop in these cases?


But tag questions are special. They have various uses, and some uses seem to attract full stops, while others don't.

Take this sentence:


If we know that a writer uses punctuation to distinguish between uses of the tag question, then the following is a good bet, I think:

If the speaker is angry at the addressee, or expresses scorn, or disappointment, then the transcript is more likely to end with a full stop.

If the speaker is making a suggestion, or generally bothers with politeness, a question mark is more likely.

I personally punctuate the syntax, so my intuition isn't much of a help, here.

You'll also find punctuation like:


Notice not only the exclamation mark at the end, but also the comma splice. Yet, considering the pragmatics of the stock phrase, it makes perfect sense. Actually, to me a question mark would feel wrong here; and that comes from someone who cringes at a full-stopped tag question.

Dawnstorm said:

Rub it in, why don't you!

Notice not only the exclamation mark at the end, but also the comma splice. Yet, considering the pragmatics of the stock phrase, it makes perfect sense. Actually, to me a question mark would feel wrong here; and that comes from someone who cringes at a full-stopped tag question.

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I feel more comfortable with the exclamation point than the full-stop, and I hate exclamation points.

I think it's just a hard one to debate all round. It's only ever going to be subjective. You'll have those who loathe the idea, those that don't, those that see usage one way, those another. I'm just cautious of the word never with anything; there are few absolutes.

ALM said:

I'm rusty on a question of punctuation, and wonder if anyone can recommend grammar primers or authorities that might clear it up for me.

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I think of punctuation as part of the creative process.

Look at your sentence above. If the mood struck me, I might tag a question mark on it.

I wonder if anyone can recommend primers that might clear it up for me?

But I think it depends on what sort of writing you're up to. If you're writing a camera manual, follow the usage books. If it's more poetic, take a freer approach.

So. Take a freer approach.

Huh? Take a freer approach?

Yes! Take a freer approach!