Self-Publishing more Hardcore Works?

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
421
Reaction score
19
Location
NL, Canada
I'm a fairly hardcore writer. It's not to say that's all I write, but I like variety, I like kinks, and I know my writing is not for everyone. I realize that a lot of publishers, even self publishers, try to distance themselves from certain things and I was just reading about the Amazon ebook's incest debacle and it really made me wonder.

Now, I know I have almost no chance of getting mainstream publication. I'm under no illusions that I could find a house that would accept the content I write (such as rape, consensual incest, drugs, non-consensual stuff, etc.), and the only publication even touching the hardcore that I could find was Freaky Fountain Press, and they shut down this year.

My work is explicit, and there's a very small market for me. And I'm okay with that.

But I want to serve that market in the best way possible, including giving them the option to purchase my books in ebook format and to donate money for access to certain web perks.

I'm not sure how to best go about this. I know paypal is notorious with adult material and locking people's accounts (and money) if they catch you, and I'm worried that epublishing might not even be an option if I want to keep the extreme stuff in.

For more information, the extreme stuff is fairly important to the plot, but it doesn't make up the bulk of the book, not by a long shot. Most of the sex is consensual and fairly vanilla, but there's one prominent pair of characters that are in an incestuous, consensual relationship that's integral to the plot and I'd rather not get rid of their sexy scenes because a lot of character development actually takes place within it. And because I think it's hot, I admit. There's also another pair that has a fair amount of rape and/or hate sex. Also integral to their relationship. There's no underaged characters.

If I were to categorize it, it'd be fantasy-smut. There's very little romance as a theme and most relationships are fairly open.

So what options do I have for offering my books to my fans and monetizing at the same time? Are there any adult-friendly payment processors out there? Any hardcore-friendly self publishing companies?

Thank you so much for any help you could provide. I'd have normally posted this in epublishing but because it's rather specific to erotica, I hoped you lovely people would have a bit more intimate knowledge ;)
 

Maryn

I Tried
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
64,178
Reaction score
43,265
Location
Behind you!
While we wait for the more knowledgeable people to arrive, let me make one suggestion: Old School.

There was a time, within my lifetime, when sexual materials were not publishable, and the few publishers who printed and distributed such works ran underground operations, moved a lot, and were generally shady in their efforts to avoid arrest. Strange times, before the sexual revolution.

But they had a working business model which would still work and might eliminate some problems. They hired printers--not publishers, print shops--to print and bind their books. They ordered a quantity they hoped to sell or distribute to points of sale, dealt with sales by US mail and plain brown wrapping and crossed their fingers the postal inspector wasn't paying attention. (This was before other delivery services even existed. I'm old.)

Anyway, it seems entirely possible to set up a similar operation which sells print books and bypasses PayPal altogether.

I have no doubt there are POD presses which don't worry about sexual content, but the payment system is the bottleneck here.

Let's see what others have to say about that. Mimosa?

Maryn, who wishes she had one
 

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
4,810
Reaction score
414
Location
The sovereign state of Baja Arizona
But I want to serve that market in the best way possible, including giving them the option to purchase my books in ebook format and to donate money for access to certain web perks.

Greetings from a former fellow Newfie:

Check out www.a1adultebooks.com and www.olympia-ebooks.com

It seems like they will accept just about anything, however hard core, except the frankly illegal stuff like kiddie stories.

I write femdom, and it took me a long time to find a suitable publisher, too.
 
Last edited:

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
4,810
Reaction score
414
Location
The sovereign state of Baja Arizona
I'm not sure how to best go about this. I know paypal is notorious with adult material and locking people's accounts (and money) if they catch you, and I'm worried that epublishing might not even be an option if I want to keep the extreme stuff in.

Paypal? I've bought barrels of smut using Paypal, and my publisher uses Paypal exclusively. As far as I know, they handle the cash and may not even have access to the details of the purchase. Anyway, I've never had them come back and chide me for my naughtiness and refuse to handle a sale.

If all else fails, choose titles that won't set off alarms at Paypal or anywhere else. Both my published books have innocuous titles.
 

Maryn

I Tried
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
64,178
Reaction score
43,265
Location
Behind you!
That's good advice, Bill, about innocuous or only-slightly-naughty titles.

Maryn, who will try to remember it
 

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
421
Reaction score
19
Location
NL, Canada
Thanks so much to the both of you. I asked about paypal because they don't allow certain 'adult oriented materials', as delightfully vague as that is.

And yay for Newfoundland :D Been here nearly 10 years now and I adore it :)
 

thethinker42

Abnormal Romance Author
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
20,770
Reaction score
2,726
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Website
www.gallagherwitt.com
Paypal? I've bought barrels of smut using Paypal, and my publisher uses Paypal exclusively. As far as I know, they handle the cash and may not even have access to the details of the purchase. Anyway, I've never had them come back and chide me for my naughtiness and refuse to handle a sale.

If all else fails, choose titles that won't set off alarms at Paypal or anywhere else. Both my published books have innocuous titles.

I've heard of situations where it's been brought to PayPal's attention that a particular merchant is selling/publishing smut, and they've suspended or even terminated accounts. I don't know all the details or how true it is, I've just heard the rumblings through the grapevine in the last year.

At the same time, I've bought erotica via PayPal and get royalties from four of my publishers that way, and have never run into any problems.

Is it a case of "what PayPal doesn't know won't hurt you"? Or is it really no big deal? No idea. Tis just what I've heard.
 

thethinker42

Abnormal Romance Author
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
20,770
Reaction score
2,726
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Website
www.gallagherwitt.com
Forgot to add...to the OP...if you go to AllRomance ebooks and search by tag, there are a few books containing incest, rape, etc. You may want to research the individual publishers and see if anything sounds like a good match and a viable company. Just skimming them quickly, I recognized a few (Evernight, Excessica, Silver, etc.), but I'm not sure what their individual rules are.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,937
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
Have you really looked at erotica publishers, the ones that are not and never were anywhere near romance? They are not very internet-visible, but they still exist, especially for fetishes.
 
Last edited:

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
421
Reaction score
19
Location
NL, Canada
To be truthful, I have had such a hard time finding any smutty fiction that I've enjoyed or found to be my taste, outside of a few world of warcraft stories I enjoyed.

Every book I've ever purchased has either been too dry or just too... cliched or inorganic for my likings. I know that what I want is out there, but it's so difficult to find what's good because it's so personal, and as you said, it's more hidden than traditional romance or erotica. Not to mention I'm often put off by first person narrative.

I will definitely take a look at the links that have been recommended though. Even if I don't publish there, perhaps I can find some tasty... inspiration.
 

Springly

Registered
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
6
Reaction score
2
What paypal decides to crack down on is basically as changeable as the wind, and has little to do with their stated policies.

Late last year they suspended payments to a Regretsy.com Christmas charity drive - toys for needed kids.
So yeah. Basically, you'll be fine as long as your transactions are smallish and fairly widely spaced, otherwise they may start looking at you and decide you've violated their vague policies.
 

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
421
Reaction score
19
Location
NL, Canada
Yea, I don't imagine it'd be enough to be noticeable.

Alright, thanks a lot :D Now to figure out how to make a business account or something that isn't linked with my name...
 

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
421
Reaction score
19
Location
NL, Canada
I looked into adult payment companies, and ccbill seems to be the go-to, but considering how they say that they have no hidden fees, I can't seem to find out what their fees are. There are some comments online that say they have pretty high processing fees, though.

http://www.ccbill.com/online-merchants/pricing.php
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,937
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
The problem with processing for porn (video etc) is that the number of disputed bills and demanded refunds is very high. That is probably why specialist services have higher fees.
 

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
4,810
Reaction score
414
Location
The sovereign state of Baja Arizona
Now, I know I have almost no chance of getting mainstream publication. I'm under no illusions that I could find a house that would accept the content I write (such as rape, consensual incest, drugs, non-consensual stuff, etc.),

Read Walter Mosley's 'Killing Johnny Fry', which is labeled as 'literary'. A lot depends on what genre label you put on your work.

There are several publishers that work in those areas. One is a1adultebooks.com Another is olympia-ebooks.com

Self-published stuff in all sorts of kinks shows up on lulu.com , in spite of their policy about publishing naughty stuff.

The home page of a1 lists the following publishers:
BDSMBooks
Bondage-Books
Burping Frog Publishing
Excessica Publishing
Firm Hand Books
New Dawning Bookfair
Olympia Press
Pink Flamingo Publications
Pink Parts Press
Renaissance E Books
Silver Moon
Strict Publishing Intl.
http://www.a1adultebooks.com/ebooks/Strict-Publishing.htm
 

Anjasa

Fantasy Smut? Yes please!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
421
Reaction score
19
Location
NL, Canada
The problem with processing for porn (video etc) is that the number of disputed bills and demanded refunds is very high. That is probably why specialist services have higher fees.

Ah, alright. All I wanted on my site was just a payment processor to take any donations anyone wanted to toss my way, no payment for anything in specific.

Hopefully it shouldn't be a problem with disputed bills.

And thanks, Dangerous Bill! I'll probably look to publishing some more mainstream fetish stuff just to put my toes in the water, so that'll be helpful :)