Is it just science fiction

David Poellot · Dec 29, 2011

I'm trying to define the genre of my latest ms. I understand that science fiction is the much broader category, but I'm not sure if this idea is just science fiction or possibly apocalyptic. Just trying to figure out how to market this.

A family of six wakes up to find they are the last people on earth. All people are gone, and all cars are gone. Electricity still works.

By the end they find out that aliens have taken all the people and cars and are using Earth to expand their own population and claim Earth's resources.

That sounds science fiction in the broader category, but in the novel, the aliens make infrequent appearances. The bulk of the novel is the family coping with life in the new world with no other people around. In the end two members of the family stow away on the alien transport to try to bring back all the earthlings, but again the novel is more about the family and how they approach this new world.

Any help is appreciated.

Lyra Jean · Dec 29, 2011

Sounds like SF to me. Apocalyptic and post-Apocalyptic fiction is still SF.

defcon6000 · Dec 29, 2011

Sounds like literary set in the future/post-apoc. I like to think that SF at least has some science to it, whether it's hand-waving or hard.

Lyra Jean · Dec 29, 2011

where is the science?

jjdebenedictis · Dec 29, 2011

It's definitely speculative fiction, and the aliens make it science fiction.

Buffysquirrel · Dec 29, 2011

Sounds like Science Fiction to me, too. And the aliens are welcome to our car....

Kweei · Dec 29, 2011

If I picked up that book, it would be science fiction to me.

David Poellot · Dec 29, 2011

Thanks! You have all been a big help.

defcon6000 · Dec 29, 2011

Just because you throw in some aliens makes it SF? Kind of like if you throw in some vampires it's automatically a UF.

C'mon, give the spec fic genres more credit than that.

Kweei · Dec 29, 2011

defcon6000 said:
Just because you throw in some aliens makes it SF? Kind of like if you throw in some vampires it's automatically a UF.

C'mon, give the spec fic genres more credit than that.

Not always. Just sounds like a science fiction story to me.

Buffysquirrel · Dec 30, 2011

defcon6000 said:
Just because you throw in some aliens makes it SF? Kind of like if you throw in some vampires it's automatically a UF.

C'mon, give the spec fic genres more credit than that.

I'm not sure what you mean by giving the spec fic genres more credit. Are you suggesting I somehow insulted Science Fiction by believing this storyline falls within its remit?

Eh. If you want the science bit, that falls under how the aliens got to Earth then kidnapped everybody (and their cars).

areteus · Dec 30, 2011

To be science fiction, the science does not have to be explicit or even present for most of the book.

To be honest, though, there is a very fine line between spec fic and SF which, from what I have seen, many disagree on. So it largely comes down to a question of opinion and the opinion in this case would be that of the marketing department of the publisher who picked it up (in terms of how they market it and to who) rather than readers or the writer...

defcon6000 · Dec 30, 2011

Buffysquirrel said:
I'm not sure what you mean by giving the spec fic genres more credit. Are you suggesting I somehow insulted Science Fiction by believing this storyline falls within its remit?

What I mean is that it's more than just throwing some weirdo creatures into a story. There is this little thing called world-building.

Eh. If you want the science bit, that falls under how the aliens got to Earth then kidnapped everybody (and their cars).

The story isn't about the aliens. If you read the OP, it's about "the family coping with life in the new world with no other people around". The aliens just the set the stage for it, but otherwise, are nothing more than props. Frankly, you could do something absurd, like on South Park, where everyone who said the word "shit" too often and puked out their guts.

areteus · Dec 30, 2011

defcon6000 said:
What I mean is that it's more than just throwing some weirdo creatures into a story. There is this little thing called world-building.
The story isn't about the aliens. If you read the OP, it's about "the family coping with life in the new world with no other people around". The aliens just the set the stage for it, but otherwise, are nothing more than props. Frankly, you could do something absurd, like on South Park, where everyone who said the word "shit" too often and puked out their guts.

Doesn't matter if the story is about the aliens or not. They exist in the world and have influenced it in a very significant way - the world would not be as it was without the presence of the aliens. A lot of SF covers the social, political or economic impacts of a technology and that technology does not have to recent or even obvious so long as the writer has successfully extrapolated the effects of it. In this case, it is the aliens and their technology which has had an impact and presumably there is a logical path to how the world gets from 'aliens landing' to 'how things are at the start of the book'. In the South Park example, there is no logical, technology based rationale for this therefore it is not SF.

defcon6000 · Dec 30, 2011

areteus said:
Doesn't matter if the story is about the aliens or not. They exist in the world and have influenced it in a very significant way - the world would not be as it was without the presence of the aliens.

I can come up with a number of ways of how the world "could be" without the use of aliens, and still achieve the same affects.

-Everybody who has ever said "shit" -- a curse of some sort -- winds up puking their guts out. This particular family never says any foul language, and thus are spared.
-A plague wipes out most of humanity, but this particular family is resistant to the disease, and thus are spared.
-A plague wipes out most of humanity, but God (or whatever deity) is watching over this particular family, and protects them from harm.

And so on and so forth... You get the idea.

A lot of SF covers the social, political or economic impacts of a technology and that technology does not have to recent or even obvious so long as the writer has successfully extrapolated the effects of it. In this case, it is the aliens and their technology which has had an impact and presumably there is a logical path to how the world gets from 'aliens landing' to 'how things are at the start of the book'. In the South Park example, there is no logical, technology based rationale for this therefore it is not SF.

Ah, but once again, the aliens and their technology is just there so the author can set the stage for the family coping with the loss. And as I've shown, I can easily exchange for something more or less tangible. We don't even know if the aliens kidnapping everyone, except for this particular family, is even logical.

geardrops · Dec 30, 2011

Bad sci-fi is still sci-fi. It's just bad.

areteus · Dec 31, 2011

The point is not that it could be done without aliens, the point is that the story background specifically and explicitly mentions aliens. Yes, you could get the same effect by not having aliens but the author has chosen aliens therefore we have SF...

Now, even if the entire book was written with the assumption that there was a plague which wiped out humanity and only a few were spared and it is assumed that this plague was of eartly origin but it is later discovered to have been seeded by aliens... it is still SF. If the virus is earthly but was made in a lab by human scientists it is also SF because it looks at the effects of a technological advance.

It is not only what is apparent in the timeline of the plot but what leads that plot to come about. Your rationale is coming across as the same as the 'SF is all about robots and spaceships and other trivia like that' argument - a superficial view of the genre - and is not looking at what SF is truly about which is the impact of even a relatively minor change in society or technology.

defcon6000 · Dec 31, 2011

areteus said:
It is not only what is apparent in the timeline of the plot but what leads that plot to come about. Your rationale is coming across as the same as the 'SF is all about robots and spaceships and other trivia like that' argument - a superficial view of the genre - and is not looking at what SF is truly about which is the impact of even a relatively minor change in society or technology.

Uh, no. My rationale is that if your so-called SF can be replaced with other stuff, and it doesn't have to be a virus, it could be a curse or Judgement Day that caused everyone to disappear, then your SF elements are just props. SF elements should be integral to the plot; if the aliens were removed or replaced, the story would fall apart.

bethany · Dec 31, 2011

My basic definitions (I teach a high school level spec-lit elective) which i stole from a thread here on AW, are

Fantasy- what never was
Science Fiction- what hasn't happened yet
Horror- what we don't want to happen

Under that definition this would be science fiction. Under that definition the subcategories of apocalyptic, post-apocalyptic, dystopian, and the end-of-the-world catastrophe movie would also be science fiction. Regardless, readers of soft/sociological science fiction would be more interested in this story than say readers of high fantasy or romance. And, as someone above said, in the end it's all about marketing and marketing departments.

jjdebenedictis · Dec 31, 2011

There's no point being snobbish about what constitutes science fiction. For a writer trying to get published, there's only one question to be answered here:

Where would this be shelved in the bookstore?

Answer: It would shelved under science fiction.

The bookstore's buyer is not going to read the novel to see whether it meets some benchmark for world-building.

Buffysquirrel · Dec 31, 2011

defcon6000 said:
Uh, no. My rationale is that if your so-called SF can be replaced with other stuff, and it doesn't have to be a virus, it could be a curse or Judgement Day that caused everyone to disappear, then your SF elements are just props. SF elements should be integral to the plot; if the aliens were removed or replaced, the story would fall apart.

And therefore, no storyline is SF.

defcon6000 · Jan 1, 2012

Buffysquirrel said:
And therefore, no storyline is SF.

That's funny, because I read SF storylines all the time.

btw, not sure if those curt responses of yours are for your amusement, or mine.

And if we're going with "what hasn't happened yet" as the definition of SF -- well, I know people puking their guts out over saying the word "shit" hasn't happened yet. That must mean it's SF.

Buffysquirrel · Jan 1, 2012

defcon6000 said:
That's funny, because I read SF storylines all the time.

If it can't be SF if the science can be replaced with God or magic, then how can anything be SF?

Curtness? No, concision. I did think about coming back to expand on my conclusion, but I'd had so much to drink by then that it didn't seem advisable.

robjvargas · Jan 1, 2012

defcon6000 said:
What I mean is that it's more than just throwing some weirdo creatures into a story. There is this little thing called world-building.

Fair enough. But the guy is asking about what genre would cover a few-sentence plot idea. If you deny that the idea fits within science fiction, this is your basis, then I think *you* are the one insulting science fiction, because you presume that the few sentence are the depth and breadth of the story.

The plot is (it sounds to me) going to be character-driven. But I don't see anywhere in what we know anything that should result in such a strong reaction against it being science fiction.

Even though there aren't any traditional elements of the genre, I'm intrigued at the thought of calling it urban fantasy, though.

Anne Lyle · Jan 1, 2012

A lot of science fiction isn't about science in any case, it's about technology. They're two different things :tongue

Call me old-fashioned, but anything set in the future is SF. All this talk about "speculative fiction" is just trying to avoid the nerd-cooties...

Is it just science fiction

David Poellot

Lyra Jean

Two years old now.

defcon6000

Lyra Jean

Two years old now.

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

Buffysquirrel

Kweei

Expert Procrastinator

David Poellot

defcon6000

Kweei

Expert Procrastinator

Buffysquirrel

areteus

defcon6000

areteus

defcon6000

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job

areteus

defcon6000

bethany

:)

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

Buffysquirrel

defcon6000

Buffysquirrel

robjvargas

Anne Lyle

Fantastic historian