Advice for Someone Trying to Write Longer Stories

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

Well, I was wondering if anyone who writes both short fiction and novelettes/novellas/novels had any advice for lengthening a story. I typically write short fiction, maybe say 2,000 words to 8,000 words maximum as of right now. However, I want to try to extend that to 25,000 words, 20,000 words at the least. I have trouble with wanting to get to the "exciting part" first, and so, I've started writing out of order. It does seem to help me out.(I'm trying use Scrivener more often.) However, I could still use help with drawing out the story. I usually write erotica/erotic romance, and more often then not, my characters already know one another in some way, i.e. they're friends, coworkers, or even married. Can anyone help? I'm really looking to write a novel as of yet. I really don't know if I have the attention span to write a novel. However, I would like to at least make it to novella status at some point.

Thanks.

jjdebenedictis · Dec 28, 2011

One thing to consider is the story should be longer, but also broader. Adding side-stories and sub-plots will help flesh things out.

For example, if you add a second romantic couple into the mix, the story's going to necessarily be longer, right? Even if both stories move at a quick pace, you'll simply need more pages to tell them both.

So rather than trying to write one story that goes on longer, try to write a more complex story that weaves many threads together.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

So, in other words, sub plot, sub plot, sub plot, right? Any other advice.

Linda Adams · Dec 28, 2011

I've always had problems with running significantly too short. My novels generally come out in the 50K-60K range, and I've had a lot of experience trying to bring word count up.

My immediate recommendation is to learn about novel structure. That's where you will likely run into the most trouble. If you can do it, you need to try to hit the right word count. Writing upwards can be a time-consuming nightmare.

It's not as simple as adding words. If you go in and just started filling in more details in the scenes, you still won't meet the word count, but you're more likely to end up with a lot of stuff that shouldn't be in there (been there, not pretty). I think I did every workaround imaginable and some that weren't imaginable to try to get the word count up. There is only one choice to add that many words: Major revision. The entire story has to be pulled completely apart and new scenes -- a lot of new scenes -- added and worked in. It's a lot of work.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

So, I should study novels, and how they're written. Can you please expand just a little bit more on your advice please? I'm still little foggy in understanding.

Birol · Dec 28, 2011

Have you tried writing the exciting bit, then writing around the exciting bit? Make the exciting bit your kernel, then fill in the events that lead up to it and follow from it.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

I'm trying that now. However, I don't know if I'll have enough. I hoping that I will. The longest story that I've written that flowed well was a little over 13,000 words. (It was a fan fiction).

VoireyLinger · Dec 28, 2011

When you write short, there are certain elements of a story that have to give way to allow it to fit in a shorter format. Some authors trim plot and focus on a moment, some trim description, others cut the story leading up to the climax and simply give readers the pivotal scene. In erotica/erotic romance it's pretty common to just center a story around a sex scene. Pushing pacing is also pretty common.

Before you can learn to expand you need to identify how you condense. How much plot do you have? How much backstory do you formulate and what is the story's timespan? Are you writing from the point of change or writing from the moment of culmination?

Once you figure out what you skip, look at putting it back in. if you write the moment, back up to what leads into the moment. If you tend to write scant on details, look at your descriptive moments and add a little bit... not a lot, don't wax poetic all the sudden, just an extra sentence in that moment will do it.

If you push pacing, take a moment to slow things down. Add a sentence or two, look at writing longer sentences... just pause in that moment and give the reader a breather before moving on.

Instead of starting at the moment, give us an hour before the moment and lead into it. show us how the characters got to that moment. Look at the timeline leading upt to that moment and identify where that moment happens when the characters are firmly on the road to that climax and there is no going back.

Taken alone none of these will get your short story to a novel, but they will give you insight into how writing longer is different. They will push you to practice writing habits that will allow for a longer story. Longer isn't all about fluff and subplot. It's about structuring a story and adjusting your writing to fit the space. Without learning to do that, all you'll get is fluff and nonsense.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

VoireyLinger said:
When you write short, there are certain elements of a story that have to give way to allow it to fit in a shorter format. Some authors trim plot and focus on a moment, some trim description, others cut the story leading up to the climax and simply give readers the pivotal scene. In erotica/erotic romance it's pretty common to just center a story around a sex scene. Pushing pacing is also pretty common.

Before you can learn to expand you need to identify how you condense. How much plot do you have? How much backstory do you formulate and what is the story's timespan? Are you writing from the point of change or writing from the moment of culmination?

Once you figure out what you skip, look at putting it back in. if you write the moment, back up to what leads into the moment. If you tend to write scant on details, look at your descriptive moments and add a little bit... not a lot, don't wax poetic all the sudden, just an extra sentence in that moment will do it.

If you push pacing, take a moment to slow things down. Add a sentence or two, look at writing longer sentences... just pause in that moment and give the reader a breather before moving on.

Instead of starting at the moment, give us an hour before the moment and lead into it. show us how the characters got to that moment. Look at the timeline leading upt to that moment and identify where that moment happens when the characters are firmly on the road to that climax and there is no going back.

Taken alone none of these will get your short story to a novel, but they will give you insight into how writing longer is different. They will push you to practice writing habits that will allow for a longer story. Longer isn't all about fluff and subplot. It's about structuring a story and adjusting your writing to fit the space. Without learning to do that, all you'll get is fluff and nonsense.

I think what I might leave out is pacing(starting just before moment) and plot most likely. Do you have any advice for sticking plot back in?

slicing_angel2003 · Dec 28, 2011

I understand you're problem. Only, I have trouble writing shorter stories. Most of my works come out novel long. One thing I have been trying is writing short stories that interact with other short stories. Combined they make more of a series. Perhaps you could try writing a number of short stories in the same way. Develop the main plot and characters of your story through a number of short stories. Of course these pieces may not make for great reading at first, but as you learn you can refine the story.

I am still having trouble writing a stand alone short story, but it has helped a great deal.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

slicing_angel2003 said:
I understand you're problem. Only, I have trouble writing shorter stories. Most of my works come out novel long. One thing I have been trying is writing short stories that interact with other short stories. Combined they make more of a series. Perhaps you could try writing a number of short stories in the same way. Develop the main plot and characters of your story through a number of short stories. Of course these pieces may not make for great reading at first, but as you learn you can refine the story.

I am still having trouble writing a stand alone short story, but it has helped a great deal.

So, you're saying is I should a write a bunch of short stories that, when combined, become a long story. Like each story is just a "taste" or something I guess. In each one, I tackle something different I suppose. I mean I do like that idea. It does sound reasonable. I just hope I, personally, can deal with ending on a cliffhanger then picking right back up in the next part.

slicing_angel2003 · Dec 28, 2011

What I did was try to make each scene or chapter of my story into a short story. If I have a scene that needs to lead to my main character learning something new I make that the "end" of the short. I try to have each scene have a higher climax than it would have in the scene of the novel. It doesn't have to be a cliff hanger. You could wrap up the entire point of the scene/story. It just might not be as exciting (thrilling maybe) as you would find in most shorts.

DeleyanLee · Dec 28, 2011

Thing is, to me, that ideas are either large enough to support a tonnage of words or not. Those that do have ideas with lots of nooks, crannies and avenues to explore turn out to be novels. Those that don't or are limited yield short stories.

I've found there's no amount of adding-on to the "smaller" ideas that will turn them into something larger.

The only way I've ever known a short story idea to turn into a novella/novel idea is that reading the short reveals a previous unknown passage into another vast story area that needs to be explored.

For instance, the short story I sold to the AW antho (cover art in avvie) is slowly turning into a novel idea. This means that I'll lose a great deal of what's in the short story because what's there is relatively uncomplicated and holds all the weight that idea can. However, the story introduces a situation where the hero can get into something massively world-altering and draw the attention of The Really Powerful and that's something that I'll need a lot more words to explore. So what is there isn't going to disappear, it's going to expand, become more layered and do a kinda of metamorphosis into something different while, at its core, still remain very much the same (if I do it right).

If you want to write longer, go back to the beginning and look for hidden nooks, crannies and avenues in your ideas and start exploring.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

^ So, basically read back through what I have and answer any unanswered questions or look for ideas that I can expand upon? Would you still suggest writing each chapter as maybe a "one shot"/short fiction. See if I have any unanswered questions/things I can expand upon, then write a pieces that flows from the first short to the second one? I mean I would still read over the whole thing to make sure it read soundly, and at the end everything was answered.

slicing_angel2003 said:
What I did was try to make each scene or chapter of my story into a short story. If I have a scene that needs to lead to my main character learning something new I make that the "end" of the short. I try to have each scene have a higher climax than it would have in the scene of the novel. It doesn't have to be a cliff hanger. You could wrap up the entire point of the scene/story. It just might not be as exciting (thrilling maybe) as you would find in most shorts.

Can you give an actual example of this? I think I have an idea of what you're saying, but I want to be sure.

Writing Again · Dec 28, 2011

One of the best tips I was ever given, and I don't remember where I got it. All I am sure of is I did not come up with it.

Write slowly.

A lot of people write a scene like this quickly.

John walked into the room, saw Jane sitting on the sofa.

Take the time to look at your scene in your mind. What is John wearing? Has he been out all night and his clothes rumpled, or is he fresh from a shower. How did John enter the room. Sure you can tell readers what his mood was, but it is better to let him show it with action. What about the room? How does it contribute to the situation and the relationship between John and Jane. How is she sitting on the sofa? What is her body language? What does it say? When they look at each other what transpires?

Mind you I am not talking about adding words just to add words. I am talking about dragging your reader into the scene so they see and feel the tension, what ever it is, between these two people.

If there isn't any tension the scene does not belong in the story.

Writing Again · Dec 28, 2011

slicing_angel2003 said:
What I did was try to make each scene or chapter of my story into a short story. If I have a scene that needs to lead to my main character learning something new I make that the "end" of the short. I try to have each scene have a higher climax than it would have in the scene of the novel. It doesn't have to be a cliff hanger. You could wrap up the entire point of the scene/story. It just might not be as exciting (thrilling maybe) as you would find in most shorts.

This is very good advice.

Every chapter, every scene, is a mini story.

They should have a beginning, a middle, an end.

At least one character should be effected by the scene in a mini arc.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

Writing Again said:
This is very good advice.

Every chapter, every scene, is a mini story.

They should have a beginning, a middle, an end.

At least one character should be effected by the scene in a mini arc.

So, then it was what I described up above about making each chapter/scene a short story with unanswered questions or things that can be further explored. Then writing something that ties the first short with the second someway. So, as long as these are tied together, and aren't like vignettes or something like that then I'm fine? I can see each chapter as a short story.

I am still confused about this part though :

slicing-angel2003
I try to have each scene have a higher climax than it would have in the scene of the novel. It doesn't have to be a cliff hanger. You could wrap up the entire point of the scene/story.

DeleyanLee · Dec 28, 2011

Scenes in a novel are NOT mini-stories in their own right. They're bricks in a wall--PART of a story, but not an entire story in and of themselves.

That's like saying that if you arrange enough mice in the right configuration, you'll have an elephant. Doesn't work.

What I'm talking about is not just more events, but things OUTSIDE of the events that you can hang more events onto. Character quirks, World tidbits, thematic commentary--all those elements of Story that are minimized or omitted in a shorter work. If you're good at description, draw the reader into the work more by engaging as many as the five senses as possible. Add in the words that allow the readers to get emotionally involved and feel for the characters and the situation that shorter works don't always allow for.

Grow the characters so they are capable of more than just the expected reactions of short story events, which will lead to other, more interesting, events. Explore the world and see how that ties into character and furthers and deepens events. Novels will usually take some kind of stand on something common to humanity--get to the point where you consciously know what that is and give various opinions to different characters and create moral dilemmas--which also increases the event count and intricacies the longer work is based on.

But longer works are NOT shorter works with just more events or words. That's a common mistake people who start out writing short often make and what they generally end up with is a lot of event-plot-stuff that's so boring, no one ever gets to the "good parts". I don't think that's what the OP is looking for.

Writing Again · Dec 28, 2011

Silver-Midnight said:
So, then it was what I described up above about making each chapter/scene a short story with unanswered questions or things that can be further explored. Then writing something that ties the first short with the second someway. So, as long as these are tied together, and aren't like vignettes or something like that then I'm fine? I can see each chapter as a short story.

I am still confused about this part though :

I would not try to clarify someone else's post even if I understood it perfectly.

But here is something else that will make your story both longer and more interesting.

No flat characters.

Even the most minor character in a novel has a story and a problem. True you can't solve them all in your story, but you can make the reader identify with and understand the characters.

Example. A character is drinking coffee in a restaurant. The people at the next table have a child that is distracting. The waitress who serves the coffee has a boyfriend problem, her boss thinks she flirts too much. The other waitress stole her tips.

Choose those things that fit with the character's mood, own problem, or somehow compliments or contrasts with something about the main character and or their story. Or shows a quality about your main character.

For example a generous character might tip a waitress with a sick child a $50 bill, or a hero type might go outside and beat up her stalking ex boyfriend.

The waitress might supply a hint to how the character will solve their own problem. Or have been paid to poison the coffee. Or give him a clue, say asking, "Is that guy trying to get in your car a friend of yours?"

If the main came in for some quiet time to think then she might keep bugging them until they lose their train of thought.

and so on.

Orianna2000 · Dec 28, 2011

I began my last novel as a series of interconnected "episodes". I wrote a bunch of chapters that focused on one event, or a series of events, and then I went back and connected them all together. I added transitional scenes, repercussion scenes, and foreshadowing, and I blended everything together, so that what began as just a series of individual "episodes" became a smooth, cohesive story.

If you're used to short stories, it can be hard to get used to the slower pace of novel-writing. I used to turn out short stories in a matter of days or weeks, but a full-length novel (80,000-100,000 words) can take months to write and even longer to revise and edit. It takes patience, that's for sure.

Silver-Midnight · Dec 28, 2011

Thank you all for your posts; it's just taking me a while to get this. I don't plan to turn out a full novel. I hope to reach a novella at best. I feel, at this moment, that's what I can do, and it's going to be hard work even doing that.

So, just to recap:

A.) Stretch out my plot. Instead of resolving a "big" problem in one "chapter" resolve it in many.

This will probably be the hardest part for me. Like I said, I'm used to writing short fiction. So, the plots that I pick can either lead to a Happy For Now or Happily Ever After depending on how I write them. I have a tough time drawing them out. However, what I think was suggested was writing the short story version (I guess) reading over it, and start forming answers to any unsolved questions/problems or things that weren't even thought of, right?

B.) Focus on details, even small ones. However, not to the point that the story drags on. This includes characters, sub-plots, etc.

C.) Slow down pacing. This is very similar to 'A'. This does not mean having scenes where the protagonist is drinking coffee or whatever all of the time, but don't let everything happen all at once. Add in minor things. Don't let him fix(or lead to fix) the antagonist or problem right away. Trail him along.

D.) Write slowly or patience.

This will probably be a tough one as well.

Does anyone have anymore advice? I could really use it. Don't get me wrong, I do like writing short stories. I think they're fun. At the same time, I also think it's good to practice writing longer ones. Again, I'm not seeking to write novel-length just yet. I'd be happy if I can reach novelette status. I'd be ecstatic if I could write novellas. Anyway, the point is I want to write longer, and I think maybe plot and my eagerness/impatience to reach a certain scene are my hindrances so far.

kuwisdelu · Dec 28, 2011

Keep raising the stakes. Figure out how each time you resolve your "exciting part," a bigger conflict presents itself, or your resolution just makes things even worse.

Also, what's the exciting part to you? Their getting together "officially," or just the sex? Because there's plenty of ways to sprinkle the latter kind of exciting throughout erotica and erotic romance novel; it's not like it only happens at the end.

blacbird · Dec 28, 2011

I've done both, long and short, and the major thing I can say is you don't "lengthen" stories. You expand them. You don't add length or verbiage, you add complexity. Think of the great short stories the world knows:

"To Build a Fire", Jack London
"The Lottery", Shirley Jackson
"The Dwarf", Ray Bradbury
"The Gift of the Magi", O. Henry
"The Horla", Guy de Maupassant
"The Rocking-Horse Winner", D.H. Lawrence
"Silent Snow, Secret Snow", Conrad Aiken
"The Eight Billion Names of God", Arthur C. Clarke

etc.

None of these could be "lengthened" into novels. One example I can think of that had such a thing done to it is "Flowers for Algernon", by Daniel Keyes. It was a Hugo award winner when published fifty years ago. Keyes later expanded it into a novel, which wasn't a disaster, but also wasn't nearly as powerful as the short was. It was like watering down fine wine.

To write longer stories, you need more stuff to happen, not just more words.

caw

Toothpaste · Dec 29, 2011

You might enjoy writing the exciting bits, who doesn't, but the exciting bits can often be made more so if it takes time and effort for the main characters to get to it.

So take Pride and Prejudice - not erotica, but a romantic story - while Austen delves into many other issues about her society the story itself is about two people perfect for each other who eventually wind up together. What makes it novel length? Well the fact that at first they don't realise they are perfect for each other and can't stand each other. So stuff has to happen to make them realise their true feelings. Also we have several sub plots, Jane and Mr. Bingley, Mr Wickham, all the sisters and their issues, Mr and Mrs Collins etc. Not only do these subplots flesh out the story but they also create obstacles for the main plot, for Elizabeth and Darcy to get together.

You have said that in your writings the characters already know each other. Why do they have to? You are the creator of your own work. Try a story where the characters don't know each other, or where they knew each other in the past but haven't seen each other in a very long time. Make one of them dislike the other. Etc. You can do whatever you want with your stories.

Also, no one here can tell you exactly what to do to solve your problem. You can try suggestions of course, but in the end, I recommend you simply read longer works and analyse what others do. Plus the more of those kinds of works you read the more you sort of just start to understand through osmosis. It becomes a habit to think of stories as long.

Good luck!

firedrake · Dec 29, 2011

Toothpaste said:
Also, no one here can tell you exactly what to do to solve your problem. You can try suggestions of course, but in the end, I recommend you simply read longer works and analyse what others do. Plus the more of those kinds of works you read the more you sort of just start to understand through osmosis. It becomes a habit to think of stories as long.

Good luck!

Toothpaste beat me to it.

Easiest thing to do is to read. Read the kind of novels you want to write. See how other writers deal with characters, plots, sub-plots, etc. Don't read the books with a view to studying the technicalities, the structure, etc., just read and, as Toothpaste said, you'll see how they work through osmosis. It'll just come to you.

I loathed English in High School, the technical/structural/grammar stuff bored me rigid. I could not sit down now and talk about grammar but I can write a book. Probably because I always read a lot, from elementary school onwards.

Advice for Someone Trying to Write Longer Stories

Silver-Midnight

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

Silver-Midnight

Linda Adams

Soldier, Storyteller

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Birol

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VoireyLinger

Angel Wing Fetish

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slicing_angel2003

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slicing_angel2003

DeleyanLee

Writing Anarchist

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Writing Again

Living Life In The Sandbox

Writing Again

Living Life In The Sandbox

Silver-Midnight

DeleyanLee

Writing Anarchist

Writing Again

Living Life In The Sandbox

Orianna2000

Freelance Writer

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kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

blacbird

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

firedrake

practical experience, FTW