Novel first?

Short stories are a very much different animal than novels.

Some people are short story writers. Some people are novel writers.

If you are burning to write a novel and you haven't written a short story before, write the novel. The first thing I ever did was write a novel. I will say though that it was a very, very bad novel and it never saw the light of day--but I was also 16, and even that is not to say you can't write a good novel your first time around, even at that age (i.e., Eragon--or someone a bit more classical--S.E. Hinton).

Short stories, for me, are hard. Difficult. Complicated little things. Like layering tiramisu. They have a completely different structure than a novel, which is more like cake than tiramisu.

I will say that what you do with a short story is not completely wasted on the effort spent on a novel. You learn things--like characterization, and how to write a d*mn good sentence. Sometimes the short story can assist in helping with writing chapters too.

Publishing shorts in literary magazines does give you a track record for going about publishing your novel though. Makes you look like your serious about your craft, that you will be an author that the publishing house can continue to publish and turn into a commodity instead of just a one shot book. However, Zadie Smith (I talk about her a lot) never wrote a short story before her first book White Teeth, and that novel saw a bidding war amongst publishers for two years before it got published! That book was published in 1999(?), and she has written only two more novels since then. IMO, they are just okay. Not the fabulous debut she had in White Teeth.

So, what's my point?

I guess I really ride the fence with your question. What it comes down to though is: write what you want to write; you won't write otherwise.

What Ses said.

I jumped in head first into novels. I have published a short story and other things but novels are what I read, so that's what I write.

If you want to write novels, write novels.

I don't read short stories much, so it would be a bit daft for me to try writing them [I have done, and they've sucked.]

I know short stories are a different format, but they also offer a more manageable size work for many craft items. The only difference I see between the short story and the novel (having written both) is: organization and length. Most of that has to do with scene-building and plot. In a novel, you have a longer, more complex plot.

Otherwise, setting, character, voice, POV, narrative and psychic distance, etc. All of that is pretty much the same. It may require more stamina to maintain things like voice and character, but a well-written novel has most of the same elements as a well-written short story.

For me, the short story taught me efficiency and also how to explore that one, horrible/magnificent moment in a character's life. It translated very well to novel-writing. But, the experience may not be the same for everyone. Others may take to novel-writing right away.

Also for me is the notion that I could give a whole new meaning to the word "suck" in a short story and only invest 18-25 pages.

Whoah. That was a mistake. Huge mistake. This is the worst writing of my life.

Imagine that after 400 pages. A trunk novel then may become two or three trunk novels.

But, again, this could simply be how different writers learn and how they hone their craft. I'm one who makes one mistake and does NOT want to make it again. In a short story, I'm far more lenient with my failures.

My suggestion? Learn what works for you. If you aren't sure about writing a short story, well, write one. Try it on. See how it feels. Write a flash fiction piece of 1000 words or less. If it's not for you, try a novel chapter. See how that feels. Try a novella-length work.

Sometimes you just have to roll up your sleeves and get dirty before you realize what is clicking with you.

Either way, good luck! Let us know how it goes.

You're not required to write anything else before you write a novel. If you want to write a novel, write a novel. Even if you do decide to write shorts, there's no guarantee you'd sell them (sorry) so if you'd only be writing them because you wanted publishing credits I think your time would be wasted. Now, if you like short fiction that's another thing altogether.

TheHobbit said:

Is it okay to start out with a novel?
I know some people see about getting work published in magazines etc., but what about the completely unpublished writer?

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It's okay to do anything you want. It's not like they'll yank your writing license.

Novels and short stories are handled quite differently. Learning to write short stories will help you learn to write novels, but not as much as actually writing a novel.

In a short story, for example, you don't have the leisure to develop a character. You usually dive in with a fully developed character and leave them that way throughout. Most of the time, characters are static from beginning to end.

If you're typical, you may write several novels before you'll feel confident enough to send one out into the world. That's the price of admission for most of us.

dangerousbill said:

It's okay to do anything you want. It's not like they'll yank your writing license.

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There's a writing license!
Gawd, that is what I've been doing wrong all these years!

Is there a test?
A certification process?
I need to know!

I started with novels and never looked back. I tried short stories and they became more complicated novel. It doesn't work for me. Don't let people tell you that you have to write the short story first. On some website a man said you must be able to write a short story to write a novel and I was like, that's not true! I've been writing novels for years and never wrote a short piece in my life!

So to simply echo what everyone else said. Whatever works for you.

Students come to creative writing programs wanting to write novels,
and they're taught short story,
instead.

This is because short stories can be assigned, written, and graded in a classroom situation.
Novels . . . not so much.

So creative writing programs are a bit of a bait-and-switch,
where students are told --
'short stories teach you to write novels' --
and nobody points out that most successful novelists don't actually write short stories first.

'Short stories help you write novels' is true in the same way
'drawing manga helps you write novels',
which is to say,
a little bit,
but not all that much.

Ses said:

There's a writing license!
Gawd, that is what I've been doing wrong all these years!

Is there a test?
A certification process?
I need to know!

Click to expand...

Twice a year, Absolute Write offers a course to help people pass the certification test. At the end of the course, the owner of AW or its designated representatives (super mods and mods) are permitted to proxy the test, but you must fly to the test giver's physical location (and most of us won't reveal where that is). The writers' union requires that all certification tests be taken in person in order to verify the test taker's identity.

It's absolutely okay. If you want to write a novel, write one. There is no requirement that you have to start with a shorter project before working your way to something longer.

Agents would far rather see your novel than your collection of short stories. Especially if your shorts haven't already been well-published and won awards.

Seriously, though. If you feel no particular pull toward short stories and are hoping for professional publication, go for the novel(s).

Not that you can't do both. I started out writing novels -- long-form is my native language. However, I decided to become bilingual and taught myself to write short stories. Now I enjoy writing in both modes, working on the stories between novel drafts.

job said:

Students come to creative writing programs wanting to write novels,
and they're taught short story,
instead.

This is because short stories can be assigned, written, and graded in a classroom situation.
Novels . . . not so much.

So creative writing programs are a bit of a bait-and-switch,
where students are told --
'short stories teach you to write novels' --
and nobody points out that most successful novelists don't actually write short stories first.

'Short stories help you write novels' is true in the same way
'drawing manga helps you write novels',
which is to say,
a little bit,
but not all that much.

Click to expand...

Poets & Writers has an interesting article* this month about how the MFA emphasis on short stories leaves writers floundering when real life (aka agents and publishers) starts asking them to write novels, a "foreign language" to many. How depressing must this be? You've gotten a top agent's attention through your short stories, but the first question out of the agent's mouth is "Do you have a novel?"


*"A Novel Approach - Learning to Write More than Stories," John Stazinski.

Diana Gabaldon told a funny story at the Surrey International Writer's Conference a few years ago.

Just so you know, Diana Gabaldon is an organic writer. She sits down and lets the story evolve on the page; she doesn't outline.

And, possibly as a result, she writes some whoppingly large books. But her fans aren't complaining.

Well, one day, she decides to write a short story about a minor character from her books.

Then, at a meeting some months later with her agent and editor, she mentions that she finished her short story, and it's about 80,000 words.

Her agent and editor slide each other a look, then delicately point out to Ms. Gabaldon that this is how long normal books are.

So, surprise! Ms. Gabaldon had a new novel for her publisher.

Some people just can't write short fiction worth a darn. Their brains simply don't craft stories that work well on that time scale.

It's totally okay to be one of them; it's totally okay to not be. You're the only one who can figure out whether you are.

I'd recommend starting on your novel, but trying your hand at short stories at the same time, just to see how it feels.

The worst that'll happen is you'll learn a lot about yourself and about writing.

Many short stories serve as a first chapter of a novel. (Michael Cunningham's "White Angel" comes to mind.)

As a teacher, I allow students to write excerpts from novels. It's no different from grading a short story, flash fiction piece or whatnot. The only thing that you really can't track is plot, but you can mark pacing. Each section/scene/chapter serves as a checkpoint of some kind. I've had students turn in the beginning of novels, middles, ends.

It's all craft.

If they're not getting POV/setting/voice/distance in a short story, then they're not going to get it in a novel either.

Teachers who can't "grade" novel excerpts are either too lazy to try or are too stuck in traditional expectations (i.e. the MFA short story debate) to open up.

Every single instructor I had in grad school encouraged us to turn in novel excerpts instead of short stories. I had one that preferred to get that kind of piece in a workshop. His reason was that novels are easier to sell to a publisher than a collection of short stories.

I did facilitate workshops for other instructors who did not allow for novel excerpts, and the genre students in particular (if they were allowed to write genre) were especially hobbled. Most of the stories were 8 pages of world-building and setting up, then 2 pages of "and then, and then, and then...." (forced climax). If an instructor isn't aware of genre conventions (i.e. world-building) they aren't going to know how to handle that.

I agree that learning to write the short story gave me far more patience as a writer, a love of the scene and the "moment," but that's my own, personal experience. I believe strongly that writers can grow and evolve with the novel process. I mean, the short story hasn't been around forever. Novelists found their way before and they do it now, too.

I will say this, the agents I've researched in the past usually have something to say about getting your work out there before you submit a book. If you show that you're capable of getting a short piece published (print, not just ebook/self-published) then I've heard many of them say it's a sign that they're taking the craft seriously. Not sure I agree with that wholly.

I also went to a book signing where a popular fantasy author likened novel-writing to climbing mount Everest, stating that you don't just "go out and climb Mt. Everest first," you start with the climbing wall at the rec-center.

Sound advice for some, but not all.



In the end, all you can do is look at the suggestions here and find the best one for you. I will say this, it's exciting to see a new writer testing the waters. I'm happy for you and hope you get as dirty/messy as a pig in the mud trying to figure it all out.

Phaeal said:

Poets & Writers has an interesting article* this month about how the MFA emphasis on short stories leaves writers floundering when real life (aka agents and publishers) starts asking them to write novels, a "foreign language" to many.

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Very true.
And literary short story is notoriously poorly paid.

Can't MFA programs do something about this hole in the educational system? I mean, all that massed intellect and all.

I will say that I feel the genre short-story-to-novella market is on an upswing. If you write Romance, Mystery, Erotica or SF&F and feel comfortable with short story, I suspect the world will be your e-oyster in about five years.

I was published without any short stories to my name. It's not necessary.

If you prefer to write short stories, go for it. If you prefer to write novels, do that instead. If you like both... nothing is stopping you.

Chiming in to agree with everyone else. I had the odd short story out there by the time I published my first novel, but that was always something I did for fun more than anything. Now and then, I'll still write one, but I've never been a "serious" writer of short stories.

There's no rule that says you have to pay your dues in the short story market before you graduate to novels.

I think it's a good idea to write both...at least once. Just to get a feel for it.

I've written short stories and a major criticism I get is "it left me wanting more, this should be a novel". So now I'm trying to get my novels out there and I hope I don't get a "this is too long, it should be a short story" reaction.

Birol said:

The writers' union requires that all certification tests be taken in person in order to verify the test taker's identity.

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The fee. Don't forget to tell them about the fee, and the thing about their firstborn.

On a half-dozen occasions, I've written short stories to test a novel idea, or more commonly, to 'interview' a character before committing a year to an entire novel. I pulled a character out of an early novel attempt who had unexplained and unwanted healing powers, and wrote a short story around her, before committing to write 'Anne the Healer'.

dangerousbill said:

The fee. Don't forget to tell them about the fee, and the thing about their firstborn.

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Today, I'd gladly give up my first born. Is there additional accreditation available for the second born??

How much is the fee though, because I'm broke and I'm always broke thanks to those pesky first and second born....

Maybe there is an installment plan?

There's an old adage: "Start as you intend to finish."

If you want to be a novelist, then start out writing novels. It's the only way to get the experience necessary to do the work, to build the stamina to "go the distance", to understand what ideas equal a book and what doesn't, and all the other subtleties and nuances that makes the differences between novels and other forms of writing.

Write what you're interested in. We give you permission.

There isn't one career path. And no, you don't need to have a certain number of short stories published so you can fill in that blank in the standard query letter.

If you need a certificate, I have one: Permission to Write Badly.