Medieval martial weapons training

Morgane · Dec 25, 2011

Hi, all!

I've run into a bit of a stumbling block, and I'm hoping someone here knows a decent research avenue for medieval weapons and fighting tactics. I've done extensive research into tactical styles on the large military scale across several different cultures, so I'm good there.

I have a group of farmers who form their own militia, and I'm having a little trouble finding information on "unorthodox" weapons like war hammers, sickles, even pitchforks and that like. This is important to the central story; the militia, and their arc within the story, mark a defining moment of character climax for my protagonist. These will be brief scenes, but critically important, and the tactics themselves will feature explicitly. I want to get it right.

What I need to research is basic martial melee weapon tactics that might have been taught during the period, which I could adapt to serve the story. Any suggestions on books, or even websites, with relevant info would be appreciated. I live in a rural area, so it's difficult for me to pay a visit to a museum to see things firsthand; otherwise that would be my first stop.

waylander · Dec 26, 2011

What sort of opponents will they be fighting against?

Dreambrewer · Dec 26, 2011

If the farmers form their own militia without a learned formal teacher who teaches them, then surely you don't need historical realism? If they teach themselves and each other, their tactics and fighting styles may be terrible, but that's to be expected, since they don't know better.

I'm not sure if they're decent, but google and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_warfare might be useful. A quick googling shows that this may be the site you're looking for: http://www.medievalwarfare.info/weapons.htm

It of course depends completely on what kind of info you're actually looking for.

GeorgeK · Dec 26, 2011

If you are East of the Rockies, in a rural area, you probably have a Tractor Supply Store. (They also have a web store). Look at sickles, pitchforks, hayforks etc. Sickles aren't going to work well in group tactics, but you could take the blade off and have a concave scimitar. Pitchforks could work as short pikes. Lassos and whips could cause problems against cavalry once the cavalry is no longer in formation at least.

sheadakota · Dec 26, 2011

Almost all martial art weapons find their origins in farming implements. In fuedal Japan it was illegal to have weapons or to train to fight- hence the origins of katas as well. Escrimi sticks in particular were developed from primitive farming tools- as were num chucks- and the bo- I'm sure if you google martial arts weapons and history you would find a ton of information.

Xelebes · Dec 26, 2011

GeorgeK said:
If you are East of the Rockies, in a rural area, you probably have a Tractor Supply Store. (They also have a web store). Look at sickles, pitchforks, hayforks etc. Sickles aren't going to work well in group tactics, but you could take the blade off and have a concave scimitar. Pitchforks could work as short pikes. Lassos and whips could cause problems against cavalry once the cavalry is no longer in formation at least.

A concave scimitar is also known as a bill or a billhook. English has been torn apart too much with the wonkish words.

Smiling Ted · Dec 26, 2011

For better response, I suggest you post this to the Story Research sub-forum.

That being said, you might want to research the histories of some peasant revolts to see how they fought and what they fought with.

dclary · Dec 26, 2011

The mob's battle tactics have nothing to do with the skill (or even composition) of their armaments. It has everything to do with winning a war of attrition. Put more bodies in front of your enemy than he can stop. It worked at Greasy Grass, it worked at Stalingrad, and it worked in that one episode of Star Trek where the rogue Star Fleet Captain emptied his phasers into an approaching mob but could not kill them all.

Ariella · Dec 26, 2011

If you want blow-by-blow instructions for plays that can be done with unusual peasant weapons, the martial arts treatise of the sixteenth-century German master Paulus Hector Mair has sections on fighting with the scythe, flail, peasant club and sickle. The pictures can be quite instructive on their own, but as far as I know only the last section has been translated into English. (I may be wrong about that. Try poking around the internet to see if anyone else has worked on it.)

I'm not sure how much sense all of this will make without a background in the theory of Historical European Martial Arts, however. That's a whole field of research in itself.

Broadswordbabe · Dec 26, 2011

You might want to try Sword Forum - there are a lot of knowledgeable people on there who might be able to point you in some useful directions.

Jaligard · Dec 27, 2011

The weapons you are looking for are your pointed stick variety. Long stick with a point, or a hook, or a blade, or some combination of all three. They require very little training and are brutal when you get a pack of them together.

A unit of pikemen could be trained in a day and became a killing machine. Virtually unstoppable, as long as they kept formation and kept moving forward. They stop moving and they are dead.

If they're fighting people in plate armor (particularly mounted knights), don't discount the hook. They're great for catching a strap or a corner of armor and pulling a guy down. Then your buddy with a hammer just pounds them.

Bartholomew · Dec 28, 2011

Jaligard said:
The weapons you are looking for are your pointed stick variety. Long stick with a point, or a hook, or a blade, or some combination of all three. They require very little training and are brutal when you get a pack of them together.

A unit of pikemen could be trained in a day and became a killing machine. Virtually unstoppable, as long as they kept formation and kept moving forward. They stop moving and they are dead.

If they're fighting people in plate armor (particularly mounted knights), don't discount the hook. They're great for catching a strap or a corner of armor and pulling a guy down. Then your buddy with a hammer just pounds them.

Tercios were one of the only things deadlier, but the tech level was a bit higher.

Vomaxx · Dec 28, 2011

Jaligard said:
A unit of pikemen could be trained in a day and became a killing machine. Virtually unstoppable, as long as they kept formation and kept moving forward. They stop moving and they are dead.

I think that Philip II's phalanxes trained for more than a day before he conquered Greece, and before his son conquered the world.

Buffysquirrel · Dec 28, 2011

Surely pikes are grounded and used when the men are stopped, against cavalry.

Gilroy Cullen · Dec 28, 2011

Something you might want to look into is your local chapter of the SCA. (www.sca.org I think) The Society for Creative Anachronism tries to recreate medeval training techniques and fighting styles. They could offer a lot of information.

Manuel Royal · Dec 30, 2011

It would help if we knew whether you were working on a historical novel (set in a specific real time and place) or a fantasy with a medievalish setting. (If we're talking about real history, "medieval" covers a thousand years and many different countries and cultures.)

But if it fits, I recommend the good ol' goedendag.

If you want a really exhaustive discussion on the issue, you might pose your question at the Armour Archive (http://www.armourarchive.org).

Medieval martial weapons training

Morgane

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Dreambrewer

GeorgeK

ever seeking

sheadakota

part of the human equation

Xelebes

Delerium ex Ennui

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary

Ariella

...

Broadswordbabe

I'd rather be a cat.

Jaligard

tastes more like regular Dr. Pepper

Bartholomew

Comic guy

Vomaxx

Buffysquirrel

Gilroy Cullen

Handsome servant of a redhead

Manuel Royal