Need some input, please...

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 22, 2011

I posted this on the eHarlequin forums, as the WIP is targeted at Harlequin American Romance, but I thought I'd post it here, too, in hopes of getting a bit more feedback.

Hi All,

I'm sure most of you have stepped away from the boards to prepare for Christmas, but if there's anyone out there who has snuck off from the chaos to find a little peace here, I'd love some input on a story I'm working on. I started this back during the Valentine Secrets contest and entered my first 1000 words where I got excellent feedback, now I'm looking for a little more guidance.

Basically, it's a secret baby story where the hero and heroine had a one night stand and she's now pregnant with his baby. They will meet up again in the first chapter and start casually dating by the second. She keeps trying to tell him, but she really likes him and is afraid to spoil what is growing between them. My original idea had her refusing to sleep with him because 'they moved too fast the first time around', but a friend of mine has said that in this day and age they would be unlikely to abstain since they'd been there before. I haven't decided whether or not they will make love, but if they do I'd like to hold it off a bit. My only concern is how long I can hold it off before she'd be obviously showing.

The thing is, I'm pregnant with my second child right now (22 weeks), but with both my son and my daughter-to-be I was showing some at 12 weeks. I know there are women out there who don't show for ages (my mom didn't really show with me until she was 7 months!), but I go 'hippo' quickly.

So what I'd like to know (from as many of you as will offer opinion) is:

1, Can they abstain?
2. If they don't, what is the absolute last point they could make love without him being suspicious, but more importantly without the READER being suspicious? I was thinking 16 weeks?
3. Is there anyone who thinks sex with a pregnant heroine is taboo or icky? (I know what we'd do ourselves can be different from what makes us squirm on the page.)

Thanks to all who read this incredibly long post and especially to those who chime in. I look forward to hearing your opinions.

Christy Kate

Deb Kinnard · Dec 22, 2011

Can they? Sure. Anyone can, if they so choose. Your couple has it a bit backwards, but maybe they just want to get to know each other "first".

16 weeks is too late, IMO. He'd know because of the feel and shape of her. IMO.

No, sex with a preggo heroine is in no way squicky.

By the way, I heartily hate and never buy secret baby books. The whole trope is so rooted in dishonesty that I don't usually like them so I've stopped.

Nightmelody · Dec 22, 2011

I can see the heroine abstaining because of the emotional toll the pregnancy has for her. I do think to not tell the father runs a huge risk of making heroine unlikeable through dishonesty.

girlyswot · Dec 22, 2011

It depends.

Seriously. You have to know your characters and know whether they would hold off or not. Make us believe that's the choice that those two people would make, no matter what the rest of society would do.

I have no experience of pregnancy or pregnancy sex but it does occur to me that if there's a gap of a few months since he last saw her naked and if he has no experience of what pregnant women's bodies are like at different stages and, crucially, if he is not expecting her to be pregnant, he might well not notice. Even if he does notice changes to her body he might not add up the evidence to come to the right conclusion. At least not immediately. The next day, he might start thinking...

No, sex with a pregnant woman isn't icky.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Deb Kinnard said:
Can they? Sure. Anyone can, if they so choose. Your couple has it a bit backwards, but maybe they just want to get to know each other "first".

...

By the way, I heartily hate and never buy secret baby books. The whole trope is so rooted in dishonesty that I don't usually like them so I've stopped.

Thanks for your input!

The original thought was that's she'd tell him they went too fast the first time and need to slow down/start over and get to know each other.

I never really reach for a secret baby book. I don't feel as strongly as you, but that's never been a reason for choosing/not choosing a book for me. If the blurb sounds good, I'll give it a go. I never considered writing one, but the Valentine Secrets contest required it and, suprisingly, I really love the story idea I came up with.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Nightmelody said:
I can see the heroine abstaining because of the emotional toll the pregnancy has for her. I do think to not tell the father runs a huge risk of making heroine unlikeable through dishonesty.

Thanks for your comments.

I agree, as Deb said above, that there can be a risk of the story being rooted in dishonesty.

Essentially, she starts out thinking she may or may not tell him (she doesn't really need or want a man in her life but does want a child) then decides she'd like a family with him. Unfortunately she learns that his ex kept it secret that she was carrying his friend's baby, so the whole 'secret pregnancy' thing is a major hot spot for him. Then she's afraid telling him will ruin the happiness they've found. She will tell him, sooner rather than later, and it will break them up-- until the end of course.

I hope that explains it a bit better. I was hesitant to turn my original post into a book in itself, so I tried to trim it down

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

girlyswot said:
I have no experience of pregnancy or pregnancy sex but it does occur to me that if there's a gap of a few months since he last saw her naked and if he has no experience of what pregnant women's bodies are like at different stages and, crucially, if he is not expecting her to be pregnant, he might well not notice. Even if he does notice changes to her body he might not add up the evidence to come to the right conclusion. At least not immediately. The next day, he might start thinking...

Hmmm...
Thanks for giving me something to think about! The one night stand was 6 weeks previously and they were both very drunk, so it is likely he wouldn't remember every contour of her body and like you said he isn'texpecting her to be pregnant, but it would be a great time to make him a little suspicious. I hadn't even thought of that, but I can see where it would add an additional level of tension between them. I think I'll play with this a bit and see where it takes me!

Bootz · Dec 23, 2011

Is your hero observant in general? Part of many heroes' charm is their keen observation skills.

I do believe it would be realistic for a certain type of woman in this day and age to regret moving too fast the first time, and to hold out the second time around. You would need to develop her character to be the type of person to do that.

What is believable for one set of characters is different than for another set of characters.

You could also write in the heroes belief that the heroine is putting on weight and very much enjoying her blooming ripeness as a sign of wellness. Maybe the 1st time they made love she was too thin for his taste, or ill, poor, or anorexic or...

He could be enjoying feeding her. Maybe even taking credit for her growing beauty and being majorly turned on in a way he hadn't been before. You might want to read a book about food writing. In his pride and growing sexual frustration, he could be blinded.

You might need to tweak your characters to make this believable.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Bootz said:
Is your hero observant in general? Part of many heroes' charm is their keen observation skills.

Ha! This made me giggle-- he should be very observant because he's a police detective, but he has already chastised himself in chapter 2 about his apparent lack of observational skills. In reality, he has just buried his brother and his mind is all over them place. He's a bit blinded by losing his brother and feeling his mortality. He suddenly feels the need to settle down and he thinks she's the one, so he may overlook some things.

Thanks for commenting!

Nightmelody · Dec 23, 2011

With my first pregnancy I only gained 12 lbs (not to worry--daughter was over 8 lbs) and didn't show until all of a sudden at 6 months I 'blossomed'. My abdomen was harder, but under clothes I looked the same, wore all the same clothes until then.

slicing_angel2003 · Dec 23, 2011

I didn't show much at all with my cloths on until around the 6th month, but without cloths I looked different. I looked like I had gained a few pounds around the 4th month, but after that it was clear that I was pregnant.

As far as when the hero would notice, that really does depend on how much he knows about a woman's pregnancy. With the death of his brother he may not notice at all if she is early enough.

Could they abstain and still work out? Sure, my husband and I slept together before we started dating, and when we did start dating months later we didn't have sex for months. Sex is an important part of the relationship, but not as important in real life as it is in a romance novel. If they do abstain make sure to raise the sexual tension enough to keep the reader interested.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Nightmelody said:
With my first pregnancy I only gained 12 lbs (not to worry--daughter was over 8 lbs) and didn't show until all of a sudden at 6 months I 'blossomed'. My abdomen was harder, but under clothes I looked the same, wore all the same clothes until then.

Thanks! It's amazing how many different experiences people have had. I get big quick, too quick. It's impossible for me to keep it quiet for long.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

slicing_angel2003 said:
As far as when the hero would notice, that really does depend on how much he knows about a woman's pregnancy. With the death of his brother he may not notice at all if she is early enough.

Thanks and good point. If he had never seen anyone pregnant he may not have noticed the weight gain. He's been fooled like this before, so I think he will become suspicious. As far as seeing her naked, if they do make love it will be between 14 & 16 weeks, so she may only have a gently rounded belly which he could overlook altogther.

Ann_Mayburn · Dec 23, 2011

Just wanted to point out that on short women, I'm 5'1, babies have a tendency to show earlier because there is not as much up and down space in the torso of a short woman as a tall woman. That said, everyone is different so the fact that I look six months pregnant while only three months could be just me. When I'm eight months preggo everyone asks if I'm having twins.

Bootz · Dec 23, 2011

Is there any chance of working it into the plot that he notices right after the deed is done, and they are snuggling?

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Ann_Mayburn said:
Just wanted to point out that on short women, I'm 5'1, babies have a tendency to show earlier because there is not as much up and down space in the torso of a short woman as a tall woman. That said, everyone is different so the fact that I look six months pregnant while only three months could be just me. When I'm eight months preggo everyone asks if I'm having twins.

Oohhh! Good point! I never even considered that! Thanks for pointing it out.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Bootz said:
Is there any chance of working it into the plot that he notices right after the deed is done, and they are snuggling?

Maybe. It's certainly something to ponder. You are all giving me such great things to think about!

Bootz · Dec 23, 2011

We've been told many times that a problem in the novel, forces us to write a better novel in the long run. To solve it we need better backstory and characterization, or have to rewrite it in a whole other direction.

What if the heroine were at the doctor and he expresses some concern about her small size? Maybe he thinks she needs to rest more, eat more, or have some tests done.

Before a woman starts to show much, her breasts get a lot larger which is a major distraction to men. Often her face fills out, and on a narrow faced woman, it looks beautiful. Some women in an attempt to hide their pregnancy start dressing very differently. Their hair gets fuller. Some feel hotter so always have flushed cheeks.

The more distracted a man is by the other features of her ripening body, the less likely he is to focus on her waistline. In real life men look at the big picture, not the details. Especially in the dark. They see what they want to see. It's like they see in fuzzy focus.

If you head hop back and forth, and show the difference between how the heroine and hero see her body, you can create a powerful scene. Her feeling ugly and scared. Him focusing on her breasts, face, hair etc and wondering if he is imagining that she is so much more beautiful than the last time. Him knowing something is different, but not knowing what.

Give him so many changes to notice, that her carefully concealed waistline isn't at the forefront.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 23, 2011

Bootz said:
If you head hop back and forth, and show the difference between how the heroine and hero see her body, you can create a powerful scene. Her feeling ugly and scared. Him focusing on her breasts, face, hair etc and wondering if he is imagining that she is so much more beautiful than the last time. Him knowing something is different, but not knowing what.

Give him so many changes to notice, that her carefully concealed waistline isn't at the forefront.

Oh, I especially like this idea!

Gillhoughly · Dec 23, 2011

The death of the man's brother seems to be getting overlooked here.

If it's a recent thing, he's totally NOT going to be over it. That needs to be a huge thing in his emotional landscape.

I lost my only sibling this year and no, I'm not over and never will be. A large hunk of my soul got ripped away and better believe it hurts. Some days are better than others, but the first months after the loss were total hell. You put on a brave face--but hide the rest.

How will it be for your MC to see this wonderful woman again? Can he open up to her about his loss? That would increase the bond between them. There were many times during the worst phases of the grieving process when I wanted to have someone hold me while I wept. No strings, no relationships, no sex, just one human being comforting another.

I also do not like secret baby plots. I'm a brutally honest person and have a clear contempt for those who are not just as truthful. Babies are not a casual plot device, but a serious, life-changing event.

What's wrong with her that she feels she has to hide what's happened? If she has doubts that he will take off the moment he finds she's knocked up, then he's not the man for her. How would he feel, knowing that she suspected he might do that? Insulted? Hurt?

I think it would be better if she is obviously pregnant, and just lets him know she's not at a point where she wants to discuss the father. If he's distracted by his brother's death, curiosity about her past partners is not going to be high on his event horizon.

He can come to guess that he's the father, though, respect her choice not to talk about it with him, and actively be there for her, just in case she changes her mind.

And when the big revelation comes, what's wrong with having him announcing it to her? "I want you to know I think you're the best, most awesome mother any baby of mine could ever have."

Make him a HERO. Let her not be a liar, just not forthcoming with information. Deception is crappy basis for any relationship.

Bootz · Dec 23, 2011

I think there is a possible reason for every possible type of lie. The trick is finding a reason that is good enough. And the initial good reason can be resolved quickly, and then a less good reason for maintaining a lie is sometimes good enough. I don't see it done well often, but it when it is done well, it can be a good story.

I used to believe in honesty always. Until my life was seriously at stake. I've learned I have the right to lie. I have the right to keep myself safe. I am more import than a principal.

elindsen · Dec 26, 2011

Yes they can abstain. If you're looking for a way out why not have the herione not wanting to, she wants to get to know the hero but he wants to take it a step further? Then she gives him a talkin to and they agree to get to know each other.

As for him noticing after the deed? Why not during? He's kissing her all over and rubbing on her and notices the hardening around her uterus and a small bump? Just a thought. (Btw I've never had kids so I'm suggesting this by what friends have said)

Sex while preg is not icky. Just keep it gentle

Bootz · Dec 26, 2011

Having him notice during, will probably halt the lovemaking. When he notices will have major impact on the lovemaking scene. Halted lovemaking and completed lovemaking are both important in pacing and need to happen at the right times.

slicing_angel2003 · Dec 26, 2011

While I do not like secret baby stories, I will say that just because a woman may not want to tell the man right off does not make her less or him a bad guy. She could have had some really crappy guys in her past, and if she doesn't know this guy that well the past could be reason enough to wait to tell him. Sorry, but she could still be a good woman and have reservations about telling him, and he can still be a hero even if he doesn't know right off.

cmckenziemitchinson · Dec 28, 2011

Gillhoughly said:
The death of the man's brother seems to be getting overlooked here.

If it's a recent thing, he's totally NOT going to be over it. That needs to be a huge thing in his emotional landscape.

Make him a HERO. Let her not be a liar, just not forthcoming with information. Deception is crappy basis for any relationship.

Hi,

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply and so sorry to hear of your loss. Between Christmas and this second attack of the sinus infection from hell (can't take any decent drugs because I'm pregnant) I'm barely holding on.

His brother's death will certainly not be overlooked in the book. It has been a bit here because I was more interested in how long she could hide the pregnancy, so I was looking for input on the physicalside of pregnancy. I intend for it to be his driving force for changing the way he feels about settling down when he is forced to face his own mortality and when he needs someone, as you said, just to confide in. I know, from personal loss as well, that it's just easier to talk to someone who wasn't close to the person you lost.

As for the plot-- secret baby/liar-- a secret baby plot isn't for everyone (I've only recently warmed up to them and wouldn't choose a book for this plot device but rather in spite of it), but it certainly does seem to intrigue a large number of Harlequin readers-- hence the contest I originally wrote this for (one requirement was the secret baby angle). Saying that, I have read a couple of secret-baby plots which have made me uncomfortable with the heroine and her deception. You are right in saying that deception is a crappy basis for any relationship, and I plan to go out of my way to keep my heorine from becoming a villian in this story.

Thanks for your input. It did remind me to emphasize his loss and the role she could play in helping him to 'recover' (not the best word, but it's getting late and my head's all fuzzy).

Need some input, please...

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

Deb Kinnard

Nightmelody

girlyswot

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

Bootz

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

Nightmelody

slicing_angel2003

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

Ann_Mayburn

Smutty McTitters

Bootz

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

Bootz

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie

Gillhoughly

Grumpy writer and editor

Bootz

elindsen

Zombie lovin'

Bootz

slicing_angel2003

cmckenziemitchinson

Christy Kate McKenzie