Writing about a protagonist of the opposite gender.

What about spending some time watching and listening to males of about the same age as your protagonist. How do they act? How do they talk? How do they dress? Try to put yourself in their place and think about what they are thinking. What motivates them? What interests them?

Never miss a chance to observe people (politely, of course). You can watch them at the park, the mall, church, at family gatherings, wherever.

Another suggestion is to ask someone questions that deal with your storyline. I recently had a story that involved a young Australian girl. I wasn't completely sure what a young Australian girl would think of certain things, so I arranged to ask the daughter of an Australian friend. The girl found it interesting to answer questions from an American. You can ask some boys or men questions (just don't get too personal unless you know the person really well, and explain why you're asking the questions).

Paper Princess said:

Hello fellow writers and novelists!


My question is simple, but I know it gets kinda tricky, how do you guys manage writing about a protagonist from the other gender. I mean when I tried it, my MC turned out a little girlie, all my male friends who actually read the story told me so, any tips on avoiding that?​

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Read lots of books written by men. Study their male characters, how they think, act, speak. Also, ask your male friends lots of questions. And have them vet scenes for you.

BethS said:

Read lots of books written by men. Study their male characters, how they think, act, speak. Also, ask your male friends lots of questions. And have them vet scenes for you.

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Male betas are a must

Lately I'm writing almost exclusively from the male viewpoint, but it helps that all my close friends are guys and pretty much always have been. One of my jobs (in a pub) often involves playing agony aunt to some very lonely men too.

But, all in all, men are peoples too. No, really. And they vary as widely as women. The might tend to think of things in a different way - they tend to be quite head on at solving problems, whereas women often come at it sideways for instance - but they're are still individuals. Most of them are still pretty gooey in the middle, even if they don't admit it

Talk to some, really talk. About important stuff. It'll help a lot.

alleycat said:

What about spending some time watching and listening to males of about the same age as your protagonist. How do they act? How do they talk? How do they dress? Try to put yourself in their place and think about what they are thinking. What motivates them? What interests them?

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Excellent advice, IMO! I'm a girl but I notice differences in how men think. Take Neon Genesis Evangelion, the anime, for example. They say the rift between women is like an ocean apart. I wouldn't go that far, but women definitely have different brains than men. Studies prove this (look some studies up, if you're interested enough). Nevertheless, we are all human. It's actually a complex and interesting subject. Best of luck!

I've done it. Not sure how well it went but the story did get published. It was a female captain of a shuttle crew, though, so I think I got away with not exploring many female-specific traits.

I also think you should avoid stereotyping male/female. My characters are individuals with individual goals, feelings, traits. That's how I'd suggest approaching it.

I don't know how I feel about some the advice so far.

I've watched as people on this forum get challenged aggressively if they make the comment that male authors usually (generally?) write differently than female authors. Are we now saying that there may be some veracity to the claim if we are suggesting someone seek out male authors to get a feel for how male characters are written?

The Lonely One said:

I also think you should avoid stereotyping male/female. My characters are individuals with individual goals, feelings, traits. That's how I'd suggest approaching it.

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That's sort of what I was thinking but ...

This world has over 7 billion people now. That's at least 3 billion of one gender.

With those numbers, are we going to find exceptions? Lots of them.

But, in general, there *are* differences. Women tend not to think so hierarchically. Men tend to think more visually (take the third street on the right vs turn right on Oak Street).

One is not better or worse then the other. God, this world would be enormously boring if there weren't differences!

Fact: Writing according to stereotypes is bad form.

Of course you're going to get it wrong if you think in terms of "women are this way" and "men are that way". Your writing will be full of cliches and cardboard cut-outs.

One person can be anything. So make your character a person, not a bunch of labels.

Fact: If you want to get it right, go talk to an expert.

What's it like to be a guy? Or black? Or bisexual? Or something else I'm not?

Well, I don't know, so I'd better do some research by going and talking to someone who is that.

I can use the fact of me be a human too as a starting point; I have that in common with them. But if I really want to know what it's like to be an [X], I have to go talk to an [X]. Really listen. Ask smart questions. Learn. And have faith that I can comprehend it, because it's just going to be a twist on my own human experience.

Reading a book written by a guy, about being a guy, is another way to get inside his head. I think it's a valid research tactic.

I am a middle-aged, female, retired science teacher, but I write a short story series about a teenaged boy, first person POV. I've had 'fans' write me who insist I am a man, though most know by now that I'm not male. (I had an ongoing argument in the late 90's with a very nice, elderly gentleman who had a very hard time believing that I'd never been a boy.)

I think I channel this boy I write about. I just sort of become him when I write, but - and it's a very important but - I taught young teenaged boys for a long, long time. So maybe I picked up the voice, the way they move and act and react. I might have done that just by being around them, though I'm not sure of that. Because why didn't I make that character a young, teenaged girl?

But being around persons who are similar to your protag. or MC will definitely help. Or interviewing them. Or just sort of immersing yourself into their world - and I mean doing so mentally. It's sort of like method acting in a way. If you were the sort of kid who pretended to be other people or characters, try getting back into that mindset. How did you do that? What did you do to 'get in character?' When I was a kid I always wanted to be the prince in the Disney movies or Peter Pan, a pirate, or various male characters.

Anyhow, that's how I do it.

Hmm. I don't think about it too much. I guess I just imagine what it would feel like to have a man's body - bigger shoulders... etc...
And I think of men I know, have known, have observed etc. (liking 'etc' today). I think that inside each of us is an opposite sex version. Try to draw on that. And really do the observation thing. Yes, you can't be too intense or obvious about it, or you'll be a stalker, but just keep your eyes & ears open, take mental note, build yourself an image & go from there. Let it take time.

I don't think men and women are that different. There are generalizations, of course, but your character doesn't have to fit those. I remember several years back when I sent my brother some writing I'd done, and he noted that the male character was overthinking things, and that guys didn't do that.

And then I got a similar from a female reader, on a female character.

Turns out I just had my characters thinking too much.

There may be differences depending on sexual orientation, and the way your character was raised. But I'm not sure I believe in differentiating men and women for the sake of just making them read differently.

jjdebenedictis said:

One person can be anything. So make your character a person, not a bunch of labels.

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QFE

OP, you wrote,

all my male friends who actually read the story told me so

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I would suggest getting other people (of either gender) who don't know you, or what gender you are, to read samples of your work and see if you get the same critique. Don't ask for them to look for it, but see if it comes up.


Could be any number of reasons why your male friends said the MC seemed girlie....

I write someone I really know, and as accurately as I can portray them.

The only mistake I think you can make with writing a character of the opposite gender is not having society interact with them properly (assuming you're writing about our society, if you're writing about a fantasy society even this can't be screwed up as long as it's consistent). Otherwise, there are as many variations on how men and women think as there are men and women in the world.

Trying to give your character of the opposite gender traits typically associated with that gender, when this isn't how they originally came to you, will only make them a stereotype.

Beta readers say dumb stuff sometimes. They'll often pick on something simply because you didn't do it the way they would do it or have experienced it. Some people just lack the imagination to see that a person could be completely unlike them. I wouldn't take their advice too seriously.

From the sounds of it, you wrote a character with the same gender as you, but a different sex. There's nothing unbelievable about a feminine man. I've met plenty of them. The issue is if he's treated as though he's a feminine woman... because society simply doesn't treat feminine men in the same way. People will pick up on this, and may complain about the character, when it's really about how the character is interacting with society. If you decide to go with him being feminine, still talk to men... just find ones who are more feminine.

And on the other side, if you want to talk to people who are masculine, bear in mind they aren't automatically masculine because they're men. You need to talk to people who fit the basic idea you have for the character.

Warning: the following post contains many exaggerations! (Also, it's a question post, so beware)

Paper Princess isn't the only one worried about this subject. I felt fine, had a decent female protagonist, but for no real reason, I decided to look up "writing from a character's point of view of the opposite gender" (something like that) on Google. That kind of shook me up a little, since even though I pretty much knew how Chilam thought, it looked like I was going to need to make a few major changes to her personality (well, not really, but on paper, it almost seemed like that).

Article 1: "The male and female brains are wired differently and sort of read things differently like (etc.)"

Uh, okay. I think I could work this out. I just have to read things in a different order! . . . or something.

Article 2: "I too, have some examples to mess you up: I'll just make it quick and say that, to whatever reaction your character has; Nope.avi"

Ow. Okay. . . . o_0

Article 3: "To properly write a female character, you must: Win a pie-eating contest, legally change your name to Willace Smith, build a full scale working cargo-plane without instructions... (etc)"

;n; [like I said, this part contains very heavy exaggerations, but that's pretty muchly what I felt like it was saying]

Chasing the Horizon said:

-snip-

Trying to give your character of the opposite gender traits typically associated with that gender, when this isn't how they originally came to you, will only make them a stereotype.

-snip-

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*whew* Okay, I did feel a little better after reading that post (incidentally, I was planning on posting here a little earlier when you hadn't posted yet, but decided against that somehow) But though I'm relieved (and can now see it's not such a big deal), I do wonder how far some of this stuff goes, like for example: In one article, it says it works something like "*Guns shoots* *Male sees bullet* 'crap' *shot* - *Gun shoots* *Female sees bullet* *shot* 'crap'" They explained it better on the article (I'm not sure which it was though), but basically where a male will see what's coming and swear, a female will only cuss after being shot (Swear and cuss aren't the right words, but I can't think of the one I need). I basically want to know if this sort of thing is neuroscience-y, how each gender's brain is hard-coded, or basically a thing where you might see one thing more often, but it's not necessarily a fact.

That's not the only example, but I was just wondering how seriously I should treat these sort of things. Any advice would be nice.

There's no such thing as thread-hijacking on this forum, is there? It's part of the original question, right? Geez this post is long. Sorry, I sort of take awhile to say what I mean.

Warning: the following post contains many exaggerations! (Also, it's a question post, so beware)

Paper Princess isn't the only one worried about this subject. I felt fine, had a decent female protagonist, but for no real reason, I decided to look up "writing from a character's point of view of the opposite gender" (something like that) on Google. That kind of shook me up a little, since even though I pretty much knew how Chilam thought, it looked like I was going to need to make a few major changes to her personality (well, not really, but on paper, it almost seemed like that).

Article 1: "The male and female brains are wired differently and sort of read things differently like (etc.)"

Uh, okay. I think I could work this out. I just have to read things in a different order! . . . or something.

Article 2: "I too, have some examples to mess you up: I'll just make it quick and say that, to whatever reaction your character has; Nope.avi"

Ow. Okay. . . . o_0

Article 3: "To properly write a female character, you must: Win a pie-eating contest, legally change your name to Willace Smith, build a full scale working cargo-plane without instructions... (etc)"

;n; [like I said, this part contains very heavy exaggerations, but that's pretty muchly what I felt like it was saying]

Chasing the Horizon said:

-snip-

Trying to give your character of the opposite gender traits typically associated with that gender, when this isn't how they originally came to you, will only make them a stereotype.

-snip-

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*whew* Okay, I did feel a little better after reading that post (incidentally, I was planning on posting here a little earlier when you hadn't posted yet, but decided against that somehow) But though I'm relieved (and can now see it's not such a big deal), I do wonder how far some of this stuff goes, like for example: In one article, it says it works something like "*Guns shoots* *Male sees bullet* 'crap' *shot* - *Gun shoots* *Female sees bullet* *shot* 'crap'" They explained it better on the article (I'm not sure which it was though), but basically where a male will see what's coming and swear, a female will only cuss after being shot (Swear and cuss aren't the right words, but I can't think of the one I need). I basically want to know if this sort of thing is neuroscience-y, how each gender's brain is hard-coded, or basically a thing where you might see one thing more often, but it's not necessarily a fact.

That's not the only example, but I was just wondering how seriously I should treat these sort of things. Any advice would be nice.

There's no such thing as thread-hijacking on this forum, is there? It's part of the original question, right? Sorry the post is so long. I suppose I just take a while to say what I mean.

BlueGecko said:

That's not the only example, but I was just wondering how seriously I should treat these sort of things. Any advice would be nice.

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I went to a course once where there was a map reading session. We were given a task to explain what we'd see if we looked along a line that had been drawn on the map, in whatever way we thought best. I did this by drawing a cross section showing the height of the land and drawing on the trees, buildings etc.

All the other women wrote descriptions.

It turned out the woman running it took all those sex difference articles very, very seriously. She had printed them out and brought them along to the training. Women were verbal. Men were spatial. There was no room for deviation.

She wasn't happy when she saw my cross section. She tried to trick me at first, by giving me several 3D representations of the same map from different angles, with the thought I wouldn't see it was the same location. Then she could say, "Aha, but your spatial awareness isn't as good as a man!"

Once that failed, she made me read the articles, just to show me how wrong I was. After that, she mainly ignored me or was hostile to me. My approach was wrong for a woman and there wasn't room for my existence in her world.

Individual difference overrides statistical average. You shouldn't take any article so seriously that you lose sight of that. But do take into account that a woman who doesn't hit the statistical averages will have experiences like the one I've described above.

Polenth said:

She wasn't happy when she saw my cross section. She tried to trick me at first, by giving me several 3D representations of the same map from different angles, with the thought I wouldn't see it was the same location. Then she could say, "Aha, but your spatial awareness isn't as good as a man!"

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What a total antediluvian fuckwit.

I'm sorry Polenth; that was both bad science and bad pedagogy.

Polenth said:

Individual difference overrides statistical average. You shouldn't take any article so seriously that you lose sight of that. But do take into account that a woman who doesn't hit the statistical averages will have experiences like the one I've described above.

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Argh, argh, argh to that woman. Anyone who knows dimbley-squat about statistics knows they tell you nothing useful about one person.

One person can be anything.