Chapters and Scenes

Sentosa said:

Currently I'm almost finished the 7-volume series The saga of the seven suns by Kevin J Anderson. Apart from the content, I found his choice of structure interesting. I've not before encountered this structure, but I'll be surprised if it's not been used by other writers.

This is a huge work: approx. 5000 words in total.

Click to expand...

5000 words? Are you missing a 0?

Sentosa said:

His structure: Each section is numbered and entitled with the name of the VP character. Sections are short -- approx 2-6 pages.

Anderson has 20+ million books in print in 29 languages, so I guess he's doing something right. Might be a good model.
------------------
I've just finished a mainstream novel containing 61 chapters with 165 scenes.

I liked the way Anderson treated as chapters what I would call scenes. I'm thinking of planning something like this for my next novel.

Questions:
1. Have you encountered this structure? If so, what was your reaction?
2. Have you used this structure, or something similar? Did you find it effective?

Click to expand...

The issue with thinking along the lines of so and so did this in their book so I'm thinking of doing it in mine is it all comes down to the story and to the author's talents. Some stories need the kind of structure you've described; others need a totally different one. It all depends on the book. All you can do is write and see what happens.

seun said:

5000 words? Are you missing a 0?

Click to expand...

Given that it's a seven-volume series, I'd say more than one....

What Seun said. The problem with going into a project firmly-rooted in the idea "I'm going to do it this way" is that "this" just may not work for what you have. Can it work? Sure. The only way to know is to try it out and see.

Sentosa said:

Each section is numbered and entitled with the name of the VP character.

1. Have you encountered this structure? If so, what was your reaction?

Click to expand...

Something like it, in Alison Sinclair's "Darkborn". I guess it's about 90K, with 10 chapters. Within the chapter there are subsections with a title or label of the POV character's name. Honestly, I didn't care for it too much. I think the writing should make it clear who the POV is. Hers did, btw so the labels were redundant. (very good book btw, interesting fantasy, great world building). My 2c.

Sentosa said:

Anderson has 20+ million books in print in 29 languages, so I guess he's doing something right. Might be a good model.

Click to expand...

He's doing something right by writing things that people enjoy reading. I don't think it's because he's using one model or structure to the novel over another.

If it's a good model in general, I can't really say. I'd say...it worked for the book(s) he wrote like that but has he done it with all the books he wrote?

The best thing you can do, I believe, is to do what you feel is best for your work. If that means doing it with this structure, then go for it. You won't know if it works for you or not, if it works for your ms or not, until you try.

But I do caution, like Seun, not to get caught up in the trap of 'this successful novel did it this way and therefore it must be a winning formula and a surefire success if I emulate it'.

I've seen it done however, I've never read Anderson before. Tara K Harper did it in almost all of her Wolfwalker books. I thought it was pretty clean.

Sentosa said:

Questions:
1. Have you encountered this structure? If so, what was your reaction?
2. Have you used this structure, or something similar? Did you find it effective?

Click to expand...

It just doesn't matter to me. Scenes are the elements of a story, but chapters are minor concerns in the whole story structure. I tend to keep chapters between 2000-5000 words, but the placement of chapter divisions is arbitrary.

In some very long scenss, I've split them between two chapters.

In the case you mention, where the pov character changes chapter by chapter, the method makes sense.

Sentosa said:

However, I agree that the POV must be absolutely clear. Anderson does it by titling the section, be it a chapter or a scene posing as a chapter with the name of the POV character.

In my writing, I try to get the POV's name in paragraph 1 of each scene; or at worst in the 2nd para.

Click to expand...

Who the point-if-view character is should be obvious from the narrative. If each POV character has a distinct way of thinking and the narrator adjusts their voice accordingly, the reader shouldn't have any problems understanding who it is they are following. In some cases namedropping might be impossible to avoid, but if it's the only way to establish POV, you might have some work to do.

Sentosa said:

Sounds like an interesting approach.

However, I agree that the POV must be absolutely clear. Anderson does it by titling the section, be it a chapter or a scene posing as a chapter with the name of the POV character.

In my writing, I try to get the POV's name in paragraph 1 of each scene; or at worst in the 2nd para.

Click to expand...

Are you writing in 3rd person? If so, you'll be mentioning the character's name throughout the chapter/section and sitting on the shoulder of that character (if you are doing the 3rd person limited).

My rule of thumb is to make it as easy for readers to discern whose POV they are in from the get go. I definitely keep the audience in mind as I transition from one POV to another. How can you make it as seamless as possible? Sure, each section should be obvious in terms of voice and such, but it should occur as soon into the new section/paragraph as possible, imho. I don't want to read 4 paragraphs in and say to myself, "wait, whose POV am I in again?"

I think this is a question more about form and structure than POV characters.

When you go into any writing project, the form and structure lend more to literary interpretation the story than one might think.

Take a look at Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad, for instance. This book is a narrative within a narrative. If the novella was told straight through in third person or straight through in first person, the story would have a very different feel and connotation.

Think about Zadie Smith's White Teeth. The book is a generational story, and each section of the book is named after a different character. The chapters and scenes in the book are not always the same POV, but the concentration is on each individual character named for the section. The entire book is in third person with very blatant breaks into the narrative by the author herself. She even sometimes says, "But we'll get to that later..." I Am The Cheese by Robert Cormier is told in strict first person, and the end the entire piece ends up being a really messed up dream. Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried is a collection of personal essays about Viet Nam.

I think this question of form and structure is sometimes more apparent in poetry than prose. But it is definitely something one has to think about and consider from the outset. Trying out a different or unfamiliar structure or form is never a bad thing, but as you write, make sure how you are putting together the story fits the actual story you are writing.

Here's a useful exercise: Take a first person narrative short story--whether yours or someone else's (preferably yours)--and rewrite it in third person. Or, you can do the vice versa of this exercise. Then, answer this question: How does the rewrite change the original story's meaning?