another flashback question

smellycat6464 · Dec 16, 2011

I was hoping if someone could help shed some light on a rather large dilemma I have regarding flashbacks.

I never knew flashbacks were so bad. I actually loved flashbacks and any narrative with one because I am the type that likes to see the events that lead to the current arc, and likes that interruption in action. Also, non-linear story lines intrigue me in general. Through research, I have learned that many disagree with me. The problem is the story I am writing is full of flashbacks, seven of them! And they probably span about 50 pages...They are rather integral to the plot because an antagonist sealed away the memories of a protagonist, and they come back in these flashback/reliving-the-memories-in-a-trance-state sequences, which are important for the plot's progression. He does this seven times, once per flashback.

I looked through some of the threads on here, and I reasoned that a way to follow the suggested advice and "bring the story to the present" is simply collect the flash backs when I am done with my rough draft, and shove them to the beginning of the novel. Delete the seven "flashback chapters," and somehow guide the reader into knowing exactly how much he remembers per trance without him reiterating everything. This is tricky, would require a lot of reworking, but that's basically the essence of being a writer and I'm up for it. However, this eliminates the reader from knowing no more than protagonist does; I devised a lot of suspenseful and shocking elements from his amnesia. That would go away if the audience knows of his memories before he does, right?

Should I be that writer who goes against the flow, does what he chooses, writes for nobody but himself, not care about the consequences, and keep my stinking flashbacks and withholding of information?
Or am I simply being stubborn, should accept that certain tropes are unacceptable, and not get so attached to my current story's flow.
Thanks for your help!!!

mirandashell · Dec 16, 2011

Nothing is unacceptable and there are no rules. Nothing is set in concrete.

The only way you'll find out if the flashbacks work is to write the story and then get people to read it and let you know.

It's all in the execution.

buz · Dec 16, 2011

I am by no means an expert...at all...but my feeling is that if the crux of the story is "amnesia" or the memories themselves, then the flashbacks could work.

Of course, it all depends on how you write it and all.

Of course the "shoving flashbacks to the front" idea could work too, but if you've built the story upon his slow discovery of memory then...I dunno. I wouldn't dismiss the idea just because it's a "rule."

mirandashell · Dec 16, 2011

OP, have you ever seen the film Memento?

smellycat6464 · Dec 16, 2011

thanks for your viewpoints I really appreciate them, and I'm not just saying that because I liked what you said. I think I'll finish my ms, and then I'll read it with the flashbacks, and then read it as a linear story, and see how I like it, and of course show it to others

I have not seen that movie, but I googled memento and o my gosh I'm renting it tomorrow! Looks so good thank you!

mirandashell · Dec 16, 2011

I just thought it might give you some ideas on how to structure your story.

smellycat6464 · Dec 16, 2011

thank you, its actually fantasy (not medieval, more geared around pre-industrial ish era, but not steampunk) sadly the camera and such devices cant be much use to me, but I'm gonna study that film like its literature! thank you again

mirandashell · Dec 16, 2011

I wasn't thinking about that so much but more how the director put the film together so that by the end it made sense.

It's a film you have to pay attention to. But if you do, it's very rewarding. A real 'aha! moment at the end.

Little Ming · Dec 16, 2011

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that you can never use flashbacks, only that they are often misused.

Other successful works that rely heavily on flashbacks include Frankenstein, Slaughterhouse Five and Rashomon.

jaksen · Dec 16, 2011

It's only the overuse and misuse of flashbacks which is 'bad.'

It seems the way you've used them is appropriate and necessary to your story and in the you wish to tell it.

WriteMinded · Dec 16, 2011

Actually, I think your story sounds like it would be more interesting with the flashback sequences than bundling them all up and dropping them in the front of the book. Besides, then you have to drag them all up again, however briefly. Why don't you write it the way you started and see what beta readers say about it when you're through.

Architectus · Dec 16, 2011

What you're doing sounds pretty common, like True blood, or the novel Merrick by Anne Rice, I think 7th book in her vampire chronicles.

When done well, such frame stories are awesome. That's what they're called, btw, a frame story, when there is a story within a story, in this case, told through flashbacks.

Look up frame stories.

backslashbaby · Dec 16, 2011

Yeah, I think you might want to check out suggestions for stories where flashbacks were done well. I love me a good flashback-based story. I'd hate to see all authors avoid them.

There are a lot of 'rules' where breaking those rules is kind of the author's thing. Or the book's thing. Just break them very well, lol. Studying examples of exasperating flashbooks would help, too, if folks give you examples of those.

I know I have better favorites, but a good flashback-based story I'll throw out is Joanne Harris' Five Quarters of the Orange. It's a very good read. The flashbacks are the basis of the structure of the work. I think it works well. Her frame story could be a bit more intriguing, but that's a common complaint I have for those.

The Tiger's Wife is another good example of a work where stories from the past are key in the work. I don't know that I'd call those flashbacks, because it's usually the MC going back to stories she was told as a child. Still, the structure is similar. The past is more interesting than the present in that one as well, imho. But it still works.

I don't necessarily mind a good frame story that is clearly a kind of set-up for the other stories. Others mind it more. That's where you might pay extra attention, in any case, imho. If your story has a rocking plot that just goes back to an earlier period of time frequently, that sounds like it could be very nice. Just make both parts very interesting

smellycat6464 · Dec 16, 2011

I really thank you all for the feedback! I feel a lot more confident about using these flashbacks. The sucky part about being an amateur is that everything I do I have this feeling that some guy is just gonna laugh at me. But you're totally right. I need to stop debating and just do it.

and that's funny, I've read frame stories all through high school, and I never made the connection that that's what i'm writing! I love learning new things haha

again, thank you all! Can't wait for the semester to end so I can get back to writing.

CrastersBabies · Dec 16, 2011

You have to find your own happy medium. Dumping the flashbacks into the "present" narrative may weigh your story down and keep you from beginning in a more dynamic manner. I'm a big fan of beginning in media res, not giving a bunch of backstory for 3-4 chapters before the real narrative begins.

I have no issue with flashbacks as long as it's not overshadowing the present story.

kuwisdelu · Dec 16, 2011

There's absolutely nothing wrong with flashbacks. I have no idea who keeps telling people they're bad.

Just like with dream sequences, the key is in how you maintain and raise the tension in the flashback. You can't let the rising tension you've been developing in the present-day just suddenly fall away and be forgotten. In order to use a device like a dream or a flashback, it must justify itself by maintaining and raising the tension and intensifying the conflict just like any other scene. Presenting background information or characterization is not enough to justify a flashback if it compromises the tension you've built.

If you decide to present something as a flashback, then it must be placed in the narrative because that is where it belongs in the narrative arc, which implies that that is where it fits into the arc of conflict in your story. Backstory can be revealed in other ways; a flashback means writing a scene, which means that the events that unfold in that scene must contribute meaningfully to the development of your characters or plot at that specific point, and meaningfully contribute to the rising tension.

The problem is not that flashbacks are wrong in any way. The problem is thinking of flashbacks as somehow special simply because they fall earlier in time, when instead they are like any other scene, and must function in the same way.

bearilou · Dec 17, 2011

All of what kuwisdelu said.

Many times when the advice is given against flashbacks its because authors have a death grip on them with the defense of 'this flashback is integral to their backstory!' and using it as an info dump for character development instead of working to weave it through the narrative.

Maybe it is necessary, maybe it isn't. But it's like kuwisdelu noted:

kuwisdelu said:
Presenting background information or characterization is not enough to justify a flashback if it compromises the tension you've built.

If you decide to present something as a flashback, then it must be placed in the narrative because that is where it belongs in the narrative arc, which implies that that is where it fits into the arc of conflict in your story. Backstory can be revealed in other ways; a flashback means writing a scene, which means that the events that unfold in that scene must contribute meaningfully to the development of your characters or plot at that specific point, and meaningfully contribute to the rising tension..

This is the best explanation I've read yet regarding backstory, and flashbacks and the cautions against them.

Also, just as a note, The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch uses frequent flashbacks, alternating every chapter and I believe it worked just fine for the story.

smellycat6464 · Dec 17, 2011

oh yes I totally agree, the flashbacks often occur as a a direct response to the protagonists experiences, and they serve to help reveal why a certain war they're thrust in is occurring in the first place (and who the players are)

but you did make me realize the very first flashback is mostly to flesh out characters, and does nothing to accelerate the future plot, so I will definitely trim the fat on that one. Otherwise, my confidence with these scenes has increased so much.

another flashback question

smellycat6464

mirandashell

buz

can't stop hemorrhaging emojis

mirandashell

smellycat6464

mirandashell

smellycat6464

mirandashell

Little Ming

jaksen

Caped Codder

WriteMinded

Derailed

Architectus

backslashbaby

*

smellycat6464

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

bearilou

DenturePunk writer

smellycat6464

another flashback question

can't stop hemorrhaging emojis

Caped Codder

Derailed

~~~~*~~~~

Burninator!

Revolutionize the World

DenturePunk writer

*