shortening work blurs the story

bonitakale · Dec 15, 2011

I'm working on a picture book, and trying to keep it well under 800 words.

I find, in doing that, that I have to leave a lot to the illustrator, and that's fine.

But does that mean I have to put in illustrator notes every five lines? I can shorten the book, for example, by not saying who looks where or that they are in a car and Mommy's driving, or that the porch is upstairs. I could cut it down till there's almost nothing but dialogue. But then I'd need all sorts of notes to anchor the story.

Notes to the illustrator aren't good form, but where do you draw

the line? If the illustrator draws a backyard picnic with yummy food on the table, I don't have to mention it in the text. But if I don't mention it in the text, how will the illustrator know to draw it?

Polenth · Dec 15, 2011

As a ponder point, if it's not obvious where they are from the dialogue and actions, does it matter where they are? Because if it's important that they're in a car on a journey, they're going to be talking about the journey and doing in-a-car actions.

If they could be anywhere having that discussion, it doesn't really matter what scenery the illustrator draws.

Smish · Dec 15, 2011

Polenth said:
As a ponder point, if it's not obvious where they are from the dialogue and actions, does it matter where they are? Because if it's important that they're in a car on a journey, they're going to be talking about the journey and doing in-a-car actions.

If they could be anywhere having that discussion, it doesn't really matter what scenery the illustrator draws.

+1

Leave the visual stuff to the illustrator, unless it's absolutely imporatant to the story. The writer gets to use all the other senses. We can let the illustrator have one.

bonitakale · Dec 15, 2011

Polenth said:
As a ponder point, if it's not obvious where they are from the dialogue and actions, does it matter where they are? Because if it's important that they're in a car on a journey, they're going to be talking about the journey and doing in-a-car actions.

If they could be anywhere having that discussion, it doesn't really matter what scenery the illustrator draws.

Literally? It doesn't matter whether it's Grandpa's back yard or Six Flags?

Let me give a f'rinstance: If the artist is going to show a family in a car, nicely belted in with car seats and all, and Daddy driving, I don't have to use words to say that. I can start with, "Will Susan like the fireworks?" All they talk about is the fireworks, anyway.

But it IS important that they are in the car, because they are going to be in the car at the end of the story, too.

When they get to where they're going, the main character can jump out of the car and kiss her grandparents. Or she can just kiss them, saving half a dozen words. She can fly her paper airplane from the upstairs porch to Daddy on the ground, or she can just fly it to Daddy. I can say there's a picnic table with such-and-such to eat, or I can save words by saying nothing about table or food, and leave those to the illustrator. But not if the poor illustrator is going to have no idea what's going on.

Or am I out of line? Do you just send in a story that sounds as if it takes place in a blank white room, and hope the editor can see it?

RexZentah · Dec 15, 2011

A picture book is a very short thing now-a-days. Have you made a thumbnail version of the book? Take a piece of paper and fold it enough times to have 32 pages. Then draw little scribbles to represent each part/page of the story. You may discover new opportunities?

Have you considered making a photo collage dummy of your story? Cut up photos and colored paper and make a mock-up of your book.

Those don't work for you? Write your story closer to 220 words. Then, you'll have an idea if you have a picture book, many picture books or a fragment of a larger story. A picture book is like a very long picture, a scroll. If it relies too much on words, then you don't have a picture book...especially in today's publishing climate.

Finally, the best way to figure out your book is to have other writers critique it. SYW is okay but, the best way is live and in person. SCBWI is a great way to find a group. I still use SYW to test out ideas, for me, it works best in the early phases of the work. When I show my work to my SCBWI groups I get ten times better critiques.

MorganMarshall · Dec 15, 2011

SCBWI is a great way to find a group. I still use SYW to test out ideas, for me, it works best in the early phases of the work. When I show my work to my SCBWI groups I get ten times better critiques.

I just want to second this emphatically. That is all.

ColoradoKate · Dec 15, 2011

It's my understanding that picture books are a collaboration. The author provides the basic story and the voice and flow of the language, and the illustrator provides everything descriptive about the characters and the setting. It's not so much the author dictating those things to the illustrator. I suppose that means there's a lot of trust involved, in terms of the sharing. But I'm not sure it'd be a case of "the poor illustrator [having] no idea what's going on." I think it's supposed to be a case of the illustrator coming up with his or her own ideas and contributing those in order to complete the story.

If the girl flies a paper airplane to her father in the story, isn't it up to the illustrator to decide where and how, and whether the girl is a human or a little bear, and so on?

Smish · Dec 15, 2011

MorganMarshall said:
I just want to second this emphatically. That is all.

I find the opposite to be true, actually. Every time I've tried in-person groups, I got a whole lot of ego-stroking, but very little critique. And really? I don't need the "Wow, you're a great writer" comments. It's nice to hear, but I'd much rather get the honest opinions of people who've never met me, have no concern for my feelings, and no fear that I'll reach across the table and throttle them.

But to each their own. This thread isn't really the place to discuss the difference between in person groups and online groups, anyway. We're here to talk about illustration notes.

Bonita, illustration notes are fine in moderation. If it really is important that the story take place in a car - and not a space ship or a boat or a wagon - stick a note in there. But would it really be so bad if the illustrator took your story someplace you never imagined?

MsJudy · Dec 15, 2011

Trust the illustrator, or learn to write chapter books.

I'm serious.

Let's look at an example. Mama, Do You Love Me? by Barbara Joost. The setting is such an integral part of the book--but the entire story is dialogue. Only a few details in the words anchor the story in the setting. "What if I put ermine in your parka and lemmings in your mukluks?" But those details are everything we need. Then the illustrator takes it to the next level. NEVER does the author tell us we're in Alaska. She doesn't need to.

If you really feel you need to control the visuals, and you can't put enough details in the dialogue to guide the illustrator, then you probably need to re-examine the story you're trying to tell.

Polenth · Dec 15, 2011

bonitakale said:
Let me give a f'rinstance: If the artist is going to show a family in a car, nicely belted in with car seats and all, and Daddy driving, I don't have to use words to say that. I can start with, "Will Susan like the fireworks?" All they talk about is the fireworks, anyway.

There are times when you add notes, but what you're discussing sounds like excessive notes. If the car is that important, [Art Note: They're in a car] would cover it. The illustrator doesn't need to know who is driving, that they're wearing seatbelts or anything like that.

If they're outside at a picnic, simply saying [Art Note: They're at a picnic] explains it. The illustrator doesn't need to be told it's a red cloth and there's lot of tasty food.

There are also times when you will mention the scenery in words. "She jumped out of the car" or "He looked in the picnic basket" are fine. Cutting out description doesn't mean cutting out every reference to an item or place.

Debbie V · Dec 19, 2011

bonitakale said:
Let me give a f'rinstance: If the artist is going to show a family in a car, nicely belted in with car seats and all, and Daddy driving, I don't have to use words to say that. I can start with, "Will Susan like the fireworks?" All they talk about is the fireworks, anyway.

But it IS important that they are in the car, because they are going to be in the car at the end of the story, too.

When they get to where they're going, the main character can jump out of the car and kiss her grandparents. Or she can just kiss them, saving half a dozen words. She can fly her paper airplane from the upstairs porch to Daddy on the ground, or she can just fly it to Daddy. I can say there's a picnic table with such-and-such to eat, or I can save words by saying nothing about table or food, and leave those to the illustrator. But not if the poor illustrator is going to have no idea what's going on.

Or am I out of line? Do you just send in a story that sounds as if it takes place in a blank white room, and hope the editor can see it?

There are sounds associated with riding in a car. Bumps in the dirt road, horns in the city. Are the windows open? Does she feel the wind on her face? Hot or cold? There's the pressure of the seatbelt on the chest? None of these are visual.

Smell the food on the table or cooking on the grill.

Note how long it takes the airplane to travel down so far and the breeze it catches. Again, these are not visual.

Use the other senses to give the illustrator clues. Give only details that matter. That seatbelt on the chest may show emotion. The description of food can too - also culture.

Is the car crowded? Then describe being unable to move your arm because your brother is up against it and it has fallen asleep before you arrived. The illustrator will show the crowdedness, but not the arm being asleep.

Make your details count and leave room at the same time.

Good luck.

shortening work blurs the story

bonitakale

Polenth

Mushroom

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

bonitakale

RexZentah

MorganMarshall

I keep my head firmly in the clouds

ColoradoKate

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

MsJudy

Polenth

Mushroom

Debbie V

Mentoring Myself and Others