Making my entire planned story utterly implausible

Reservoir Angel · Dec 11, 2011

Okay so I'm not sure if it's entirely implausible but I just made it a heck of a lot harder for anyone to potentially believe.

The story is, at it's basic heart, about a guy working with various groups of people to overthrow a dictatorship government run by an emperor with a serious inferiority complex and a scheming vizier who is halfway between Grima Wormtongue and Cardinal Richelieu and stop said emperor from using imprisoned sorcerers to track down ancient powerful artefacts to fully cement his own power and make sure there's nobody more powerful than him in the world.

So I was happy with that, I had it all mapped out. But then I changed the setting. From a generic fantasy kingdom to a science fiction setting. And suddenly the entire thing makes no sense.

I mean come on, nobody's going to buy someone in a futuristic science fiction setting suddenly needing ancient magical artefacts. Heck, nobody's really going to buy magic existing at all in a science-based technologically advanced society.

But the problem is I really like the story the way I have it, in terms of story and character progression. But I'm just really not digging the fantasy setting, I've always been a more science fiction-oriented type of guy.

I did consider making the ancient artefacts like the Prothean beacons from Mass Effect. Ancient to us but remnants of an insanely advanced society that existed long before we did. But then I still have the problem of people being able to use magic.

I dunno, is there any way I can make magic and ancient magical artefacts make sense in a science-fiction setting and time period?

bearilou · Dec 11, 2011

Reservoir Angel said:
I mean come on, nobody's going to buy someone in a futuristic science fiction setting suddenly needing ancient magical artefacts. Heck, nobody's really going to buy magic existing at all in a science-based technologically advanced society.

ORLY?

In my case, I'm banking on everyone in my story not 'buying that magic exists in their science-based technologically advanced society' to help provide the necessary conflict in the story to move it along.

Why not write it anyway and let your betas tell you where it is implausible so you can work out how to make it work?

Darkshore · Dec 11, 2011

Reservoir Angel said:
Okay so I'm not sure if it's entirely implausible but I just made it a heck of a lot harder for anyone to potentially believe.

The story is, at it's basic heart, about a guy working with various groups of people to overthrow a dictatorship government run by an emperor with a serious inferiority complex and a scheming vizier who is halfway between Grima Wormtongue and Cardinal Richelieu and stop said emperor from using imprisoned sorcerers to track down ancient powerful artefacts to fully cement his own power and make sure there's nobody more powerful than him in the world.

So I was happy with that, I had it all mapped out. But then I changed the setting. From a generic fantasy kingdom to a science fiction setting. And suddenly the entire thing makes no sense.

I mean come on, nobody's going to buy someone in a futuristic science fiction setting suddenly needing ancient magical artefacts. Heck, nobody's really going to buy magic existing at all in a science-based technologically advanced society.

But the problem is I really like the story the way I have it, in terms of story and character progression. But I'm just really not digging the fantasy setting, I've always been a more science fiction-oriented type of guy.

I did consider making the ancient artefacts like the Prothean beacons from Mass Effect. Ancient to us but remnants of an insanely advanced society that existed long before we did. But then I still have the problem of people being able to use magic.

I dunno, is there any way I can make magic and ancient magical artefacts make sense in a science-fiction setting and time period?

Arthur C. Clarke "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I believe you can use this way of thinking to your advantage. But for me it seems very believable. You've got sharks with friggin lazerbeams on their heads? A death ray that makes the Death Star hide in shame from inferiority? That's all well and good, but an artifact left behind by the very gods themselves finally cracking the secret to immortality? I'd still go after it. Or perhaps some disease afflicts this emperor and no known cure exists, so he goes in search of these ancient artifacts. Just give him some strong motivation for doing so and I'd go along with it. Suspension of disbelief.

thothguard51 · Dec 11, 2011

Darkshore said:
Just give him some strong motivation for doing so and I'd go along with it. Suspension of disbelief.

There is the key to all magic, fantasy or otherwise.

Just give me, the reader, a good reason for it to exist and I will go along with the magic...

sunandshadow · Dec 11, 2011

You could have science fiction people colonizing a place where previously a magical society lived and went extinct. Like magical alien ruins on Mars, or some further-away planet. The technological people never had magic, or powerful magic, before, but as soon as they discover its power obviously there will be a scramble to control sources of that power.

Williebee · Dec 11, 2011

When science breaks down, magic is what people will seek?

Go for it.

Polenth · Dec 11, 2011

Science fantasy isn't a problem. It sounds like your magic is apparent from the start, so it'll be accepted as part of the setting. For a recent example, watch the Thor movie. No one needs to see a technical schematic explaining how Bifrost actually works. Thor says magic and science are the same thing, and most viewers are fine with that (in the context of the story).

silentpoet · Dec 11, 2011

The entire Star Wars series of movies and books is about magic and science. You just need to find a hook to hang the magic on like "the force".

CrastersBabies · Dec 11, 2011

I personally would love to read a sci-fi story involving artifacts. Have you watched Babylon 5? Uncovering ancient alien artifacts is the bomb! Read up on the anunaki. Watch some of the Ancient aliens show with crazy Giorgio's hair.

No reason the artifacts have to be human. It could also "seem" like magic but be totally scientific.

Watch the 5th Element again.

I love me some blurring of science and magic. You can totally do it.

Read some Dune. Who says the spice is really a scientific substance and not the ambrosia of the gods?

Star Wars was AWESOME before the prequels because the force wasn't about this midichlorian bullshit. It was mystical and amazing.

Ian Isaro · Dec 11, 2011

Why can't that be translated to science fiction? You don't need to have magic to keep the story and character progression, which is what you said you especially liked.

Have the artifacts be remnants of an advanced culture, as you said. Instead of sorcerers, you have the scientists capable of reverse engineering the artifacts so they can actually be used. If you really want the artifacts to be more mysterious, have one part (the power source, for example) be a black box that no one can figure out. Does anything in your plot actually require magic?

Wiskel · Dec 12, 2011

As the level of technology in a story progresses then options increase. Magic often works as a way to save the day because it's many orders of magnititude more powerful than a bow or a sword. it's not quite so far above smart missiles, spaceships with laser cannons or large quantities of explosives.

There's no problem with magic co-existing so long as there is a plausible reason for your magical mcguffins being the only way to save the day, otherwise you'll have people like me wondering why your MC doesn't solve the problem of killing the emperor with a sniper rifle in chapter one.

"...but the emperor is paranoid. He stays locked in the palace all day. No sniper could ever reach him and the bomb sensors are first rate. Of course we need the magical mcguffin of doom."
.......you might just need a special forces squad with expertise in stealth and lock breaking. They're easier to get.

If you can find a reason to make your mcguffins essential to the plot you'll be ok, but i think that's harder to do in sci fi than in fantasy when technology is essentially making magical effects available to anyone with a bit of money. Your hestitation might be because the tech available could solve your MC's problem just fine.

Craig

Fenika · Dec 12, 2011

No matter the century, there is nothing to stop magic from existing. Aside from reading more Sci-Fantasy, I also suggest you find some good Urban Fantasy where tech and magic blend. Or clash.

Then go for it.

Teinz · Dec 12, 2011

Reservoir Angel said:
I dunno, is there any way I can make magic and ancient magical artefacts make sense in a science-fiction setting and time period?

I certainly wouldn't mind magic and science in one story. In fact, I find cross-overs refreshing.

Layla Nahar · Dec 12, 2011

silentpoet said:
The entire Star Wars series of movies and books is about magic and science.

That's what I was going to say. Star Wars is the epitome of a universe where SF tech and magic exist hand in hand. You can totally do it. (I guess the trick is to do it and keep your readers from saying 'yeah, this is like Star Wars').

Write it up, see what you think. Keep in mind that there is a lot that can happen between now and "The End"

Mac H. · Dec 12, 2011

Its common in sci-fi. Often the 'magical artifact' is renamed as an piece of technology left behind the Ancients .. but it is exactly the same story.

You can leave it as magic entirely, or have a character who is convinced that there is some pattern or 'technology' behind the magic .. and even does experiments to figure it out. So, for example, if there is a magical 'never ending jug' that can continually pour out wine, water or juice based on a spell .. our scientific stand-in character can put it in a bell jar on a simple scale and show that the overall weight doesn't change - so that the device must be taking matter from the environment (air, whatever it is sitting on etc) to convert.

Good luck!

Mac

RichardFlea · Dec 12, 2011

Read any 'Vampire Hunter D' stuff from Japan. It is set in 12,000 AD after a nuclear war. It has everything mashed together from robotic horses, to vampires, to tree spirits, to ancient curses, to laser rifles, to ruined 4 lane freeways, to a symbiotic being that lives in the main characters hand. That began the big mash up of science and magic some 30 odd years ago.

robjvargas · Dec 12, 2011

Someone's mentioned Babylon 5, and there's another hook from that TV series. Read up on the technomages from Babylon 5. I think they were personifications of the Ray Bradbury saying, as well.

Gilroy Cullen · Dec 13, 2011

Reservoir Angel said:
I mean come on, nobody's going to buy someone in a futuristic science fiction setting suddenly needing ancient magical artefacts. Heck, nobody's really going to buy magic existing at all in a science-based technologically advanced society.

I'd suggest taking a look at the Star of the Guardians series by Margaret Weis. It has some similar ideas of Magic within a highly technical sci-fi world.

Plus someone mentioned Star Wars. It has Magic, with a scientific explanation. Kinda.

It will be more a matter of the writer selling the story to the reader.

Making my entire planned story utterly implausible

Reservoir Angel

Angelic by name, fiendish by nature

bearilou

DenturePunk writer

Darkshore

Stranger

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

Polenth

Mushroom

silentpoet

practical experience, FTW

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

Ian Isaro

New Member

Wiskel

practical experience, FTW

Fenika

Teinz

Back at it again.

Layla Nahar

Seashell Seller

Mac H.

Board Visitor

RichardFlea

Foo!

robjvargas

Gilroy Cullen

Handsome servant of a redhead