It turns out I really struggle with writing action.

Anninyn · Dec 10, 2011

Which is kind of a problem, as I'm writing a swashbuckling adventure fantasy.

I either go too far, in describing every single physical movement they take, or I don't describe enough.

I think (obviously, not the best judge of my own work) that I can write fairly well. And I'm a quick learner. I just can't figure out how to do this. I am practicing, and I know every writer has to figure these things out in their own way, but I'd still like some pointers.

scarletpeaches · Dec 10, 2011

Don't try to describe everything going on at once. Concentrate on how the action (bullets flying, a car chase, zombies eating someone's face) makes the hero/heroine feel.

I will be back later once I've imbibed more caffeine.

Lydia Sharp · Dec 10, 2011

As someone who writes both contemp and sf/f, I find that I struggle more with action scenes in sf/f than in contemp. Have no idea why, either.

The thing that works best for me is to just write it, know that it's not going to be that great, and then pay extra special attention to those scenes when you go to revise.

LadyDae · Dec 10, 2011

Well, unless you fight all the time, it is hard. I struggle with it also, especially when a scene is one of many scenes. That means I have to figure out how to make each fighting scene original. Generally, I have to go back and edit them whether they need more detail or I describe too much, but scarlet is right. Focus on how it makes the character feels. That too can make an effective battle scene.

gothicangel · Dec 10, 2011

Why not take a look at favourite novels, see how the authors do it?

I write Roman thrillers, so I sympathise. I love writing the hand-to-hand sword fights, but hate the epic battle stuff [the Romans where so good at it, I find it quite boring.]

Layla Nahar · Dec 10, 2011

I vote for less detail. Maybe use one detail where you are temped to use, say, five? I just read a trilogy in which the author writes very detailed action sequences. May be my poor little brain, but I had a hard time following and ended up skimming. I like scarlettpeaches recommendations.

Anninyn · Dec 10, 2011

Thanks people. I seem to go one way or the other with detail- either nothing, or everything. What I might do is try and write this bar brawl and stick it up in SYW so you can see what I mean.

BethS · Dec 10, 2011

Couple of things.

Slow down to choreograph every move only at climactic moments. Otherwise, summarize. And you can use metaphorical language to convey visuals or emotion.

Remember that every fight is also a conversation. (Same is true of sex scenes, btw.) The most shallow level of conflict is the actual attack-thrust-parry business of fighting. But each combatant carries baggage into that fight--emotions, past history, agendas. Make the fight a dialogue about those, too, and it will instantly become more tense and more engaging.

DanielaTorre · Dec 10, 2011

OOOH! I love writing action!! It's my favourite. In fact, I get really into it and start narrating it aloud as I write to get more excitement into my head and writing. I generally suck with dialogue unless it's a goofy character and then I'm totally into it.

So why don't you try that? Try speaking aloud as you write, you'll see how the words come along succinctly. After you've written it, no matter how descriptive, just leave it alone for a couple of days, come back, and start hacking at the unnecessary.

Remember, there's always editing. So write as much as you want and then come back and tweak it. If you stop, then you'll never finish. I try to keep this in mind all the time. Tell yourself this and you'll eventually start listening. Lulz.

FYI, I agree that less is more. But again, editing will help you accomplish this. First drafts are puke. Just get it out and move on.

Anninyn · Dec 10, 2011

Oh, I can normally happily write a bunch of absolute dross in a first draft- as long as I know roughly what I'm trying to do. With action scenes I get frozen. I've been dreading writing this one, but the WIP wasn't letting me write anything else till it was done. So. I wrote it. it took me two days to write 1600 words but it's done.

Of course, I can't tell if it's good or not! I'll stick it up in SYW once I've had a chance to edit.

Architectus · Dec 10, 2011

I would also focus on feelings, thoughts, introspection. Check out how action scenes are dealt with in Dune by Frank Herbert, especially the knife fight in the cave.

AnnieColleen · Dec 10, 2011

What about working the choreography out separately - write the version with all the details just as notes, not as part of the draft - and using that as a base to draft the actual scene? I know I get very stuck if I'm hazy on what's actually happening, even if most of what's happening doesn't need to be on the page.

CrastersBabies · Dec 10, 2011

I always struggle with action. Always. It goes in shoddy the first time and then I revise (and revise, and revise some more).

Reading some of these responses for myself too!

Layla Nahar · Dec 10, 2011

BethS said:
...Make the fight a dialogue ...

loved this insight

Linda Adams · Dec 10, 2011

You might try having a look at Write the Fight Right by Alan Baxter. Great book, which gets into what's interesting about action scenes and what's not. One of the points he makes is that real action is messy and chaotic. A lot is going on.

But some pointers:

The biggest mistake I see people make is they just write action -- people trading punches. That's not very interesting or even exciting. It's really easy to think, "I want the action to be fast," and speeding through it so fast that it ends up being disappointing because it's missing other important elements.

There should be a great deal of risk for your protagonist. If he loses the right, falls down the hill, or whatever, X will happen. That's going to heighten the suspense in the action scene.

Danger is another key piece. Maybe your character is outclassed, or outnumbered. Add that to the risk, and it starts getting exciting. Especially when something happens that puts the character at further disadvantage.

The third piece is reaction. Protagonist gets hit. It's going to hurt. Or he staggers back, momentarily dazed. Every action should have a reaction.

What happens when all these are added into the scene is that less of the action needs to be described, but the reader gets a whole lot more out of it.

* Dashes off to write action scene. I'm about to have a insane god get out of a prison, and the mortals have to stop it. Big battle -- guns, magic, and monsters.

Architectus · Dec 10, 2011

Or another action scene to check out is by Dean Koontz. It's a rape scene, but for some reason I can't recall which novel it is in. It runs 16 pages, and it keeps you on the edge of your seat the whole time. A rape scene that is 16 PAGES!

Well, it is not really a rape scene, but attempted rape.

Or maybe it was 19 pages long. If anyone knows the book I am refering to let me know.

gothicangel · Dec 11, 2011

Architectus said:
Or another action scene to check out is by Dean Koontz. It's a rape scene, but for some reason I can't recall which novel it is in. It runs 16 pages, and it keeps you on the edge of your seat the whole time. A rape scene that is 16 PAGES!

Well, it is not really a rape scene, but attempted rape.

Or maybe it was 19 pages long. If anyone knows the book I am refering to let me know.

Have you ever read any books by Richard Laymon? Near enough whole damn books of rape.

Anninyn · Dec 11, 2011

I've posted a (fairly rough) version of a bar brawl in SYW if you want to go see what I mean. It's here.

scarletpeaches · Dec 11, 2011

gothicangel said:
Have you ever read any books by Richard Laymon? Near enough whole damn books of rape.

Yup, this. Dickie had him a biiiiig...fetish.

He and Koontz were friends, apparently.

Quelle surprise.

bonitakale · Dec 11, 2011

Did what I could while I'm running late. I thought it was pretty damn good, with about the right ratio of blows to thoughts.

However, I always wonder how these people get up. Kicked in the jaw? Doesn't that break it?

Anninyn · Dec 11, 2011

bonitakale said:
Did what I could while I'm running late. I thought it was pretty damn good, with about the right ratio of blows to thoughts.

However, I always wonder how these people get up. Kicked in the jaw? Doesn't that break it?

Not always. Speaking from experience here.

The last major fight I was actually involved in I was kicked in the jaw. Bruised, but not broken. The thing that did the most damage was my head being slammed against the pavement, and that only split a lip. Which then got infected, but hey.

A couple of years ago my husband was hit round the head with a sock full of snooker balls and kicked while he was on the floor. Again, bruises, mild concussion. The human body is pretty tough sometimes. And adrenaline does a lot to get you out of a situation before you realise how hurt you are.

Ah, Norwich chavs with their irrational violence.

QueenViv · Dec 11, 2011

Personally, my struggle is to come up with the actual movement of the scene. I can spend hours trying to come up with a solid scene. Writing the scene is never a problem.

I use a simple technique: I visualize it as a scene from a movie. What details would the director use to show me what was happening, how the characters would react... that sort of thing. I always loved watching action, westerns and war movies, I maybe that helps too.

Architectus · Dec 11, 2011

I think it's good. I would watch for the more vague descriptions like "she jumped," or "one punched her."

A good author to get ideas from to avoid this kind of vagueness is Robert Ludlum, writer of the Bourne series.

One punched her hard in the face, and her lip split under it.

One slammed his fists into her face and split her lip.
A fist slammed into her face, splitting her lip.

or something like that to avoid saying punched.

He writes things like, he swung his foot around. It smashed into the side of the man's face.

She was dragging herself to her feet when he kicked her in the stomach.

As she drug herself to her feet, he thrusted his hard boot into her stomach.

Or something like that. I didn't give it much thought. "He thrusted his hard boot into her stomach," paints a better picture than "he kicked her in the stomach," right, or no?

I try to avoid using vague terms like punched, kicked, jumped, etc. I try to be specific as possible. Round housed. Swung foot around like Jet Li. Cracked him in the jaw, rather than just punched him, etc.

dpaterso · Dec 11, 2011

I liken action scenes to a simple computer program:

If MC is in immediate danger then react, fight, flee.
else MC looks around at the bigger picture.
If MC is still alive, repeat.
End.

When the MC is fighting the action is swift, direct, and focused on the immediate problem of avoiding death. Shorter, sharper sentences driving the action, sudden surprises, blundering mistakes, desperation, anxiety, fear. Fights don't run cleanly, complications abound, there's always a body to trip over or a sword that snaps at the wrong moment, adding to the fun. I'm reminded of that lovely scene between Stewart Granger and James Mason in The Prisoner of Zenda, where Mason, greatly frustrated at not being able to stick his sword in Granger, who keeps chucking things at him, asks, "Where did you learn to fight with furniture?" and Granger replies, "On the playing fields of Eton!" Props can be fun. Ditto for hidden weapons and sneaky tactics. "Rules, in a knife fight?" exclaims Ted Cassidy in surprise, just before Paul Newman kicks him in the nuts in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

The MC can take a moment longer to think when looking around and pondering the overall situation, deciding what action to take next, or being challenged anew.

If it's a big dramatic fight, possibly with a known enemy, spending more time and sprinkling more internal thought during brief pauses is warranted.

Simple really.

-Derek

bonitakale · Dec 11, 2011

Anninyn said:
Not always. Speaking from experience here.

The last major fight I was actually involved in I was kicked in the jaw. Bruised, but not broken. The thing that did the most damage was my head being slammed against the pavement, and that only split a lip. Which then got infected, but hey.

A couple of years ago my husband was hit round the head with a sock full of snooker balls and kicked while he was on the floor. Again, bruises, mild concussion. The human body is pretty tough sometimes. And adrenaline does a lot to get you out of a situation before you realise how hurt you are.

Ah, Norwich chavs with their irrational violence.

Ohmygod,ohmygod,ohmygod.

Which gives me a chance to ask a cultural question I've had for some time: Is moving house more trouble, or more undesirable, in the UK than in the US? There seem to be situations in which I'd be waving a cheerful goodbye to the old homestead, in which UK people stick. (Of course, now you can't sell the old homestead, and that does make it harder.)

(And if you live with a man like mine, you don't move, anyway. He won't let go of his junk/stuff/valuable collectibles/lumber till they pry it from his cold, dead hands.)

Thanks for the info on being kicked, etc. Sorry that you know...

It turns out I really struggle with writing action.

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