Fun Facts and Copyright

morg4nd · Dec 6, 2011

Hey. So I looked up "fun facts" on the internet...mainly stuff about the environment like, "Already half of the world's tropical forests have been lost."
Most of these facts are not cited and appear on more than one website. I was wondering whether i am allowed to use these fun facts word for word in my book (it's fiction), or is that copyright infringement?

On the other hand I have found a few facts that are cited...am I allowed to use those in my book if I cite them somewhere in the book? If so, where would that citation come up?

I've looked up copyright laws, but I wasn't able to come up with an answer.

Any advice would be helpful.

kuwisdelu · Dec 6, 2011

This has nothing to do with copyright law.

If they're actual, indisputable, public knowledge facts, then you can use them wherever you want without citing them. If they're disputable facts or conclusions, and you use them in non-fiction, then you need to cite them, not because of copyright (facts and conclusions can't be copyrighted), but because you want to be intellectually honest.

If it's word-for-word, though, then you need to make sure it's quoted and cite it, or else that's plagiarism.

Deleted member 42 · Dec 6, 2011

kuwisdelu said:
If it's word-for-word, though, then you need to make sure it's quoted and cite it, or else that's plagiarism.

If it's word-for-word, even with a citation, it's possible to infringe on copyright.

kuwisdelu · Dec 6, 2011

Medievalist said:
If it's word-for-word, even with a citation, it's possibly to infringe on copyright.

I don't imagine that would be the case here, though, would it?

In any case, if they're public knowledge facts, there's no need to quote it word for word in the first place.

robertbevan · Dec 6, 2011

morg4nd said:
Hey. So I looked up "fun facts" on the internet...mainly stuff about the environment like, "Already half of the world's tropical forests have been lost."

in what way, exactly, is that fun?

morg4nd · Dec 6, 2011

These facts are being used in a journal one of my characters keeps. This character looked them up on the internet, or found them in a book. So as of now I have them written word for word. Even if I slightly altered these facts by interchanging a few words or rearranging the sentence it would still be similar to the original text. Do you suggest that I do that?

BotByte · Dec 6, 2011

If this is for non-fiction, then if you quote the fact, you need to have it cited. And 100% of the teachers out there will tell you not to cite from a organization or paid study. Always find the original works that were either governmental, study or scientific.

Also, don't look up fact sheets. 99% of them are lies.

morg4nd · Dec 6, 2011

alright thanks. I might just throw the facts out all together. Unfortunately they play a rather large part in my story...

kuwisdelu · Dec 6, 2011

BotByte said:
If this is for non-fiction, then if you quote the fact, you need to have it cited.

It depends on the fact. As I mentioned, if it can be considered common knowledge, then it's not necessary to cite it if you state it as fact. Also, using the fact and quoting it are separate things.

And 100% of the teachers out there will tell you not to cite from a organization or paid study. Always find the original works that were either governmental, study or scientific.

Huh? Someone had to pay for that "original work." Probably some private or government organization. All scientific studies are studies funded by some organization. I'm not really sure what you mean here.

Also, don't look up fact sheets. 99% of them are lies.

Ahh, lies, damned lies, and statistics...

kuwisdelu · Dec 6, 2011

morg4nd said:
alright thanks. I might just throw the facts out all together. Unfortunately they play a rather large part in my story...

I really wouldn't worry about this as much as you are.

If one of your characters says to another, "you know, we've already lost half of the Earth's rain forests" in your novel, no one is going to come and sue you. Most readers will not even fact-check you, and there's no particular requirement for you to be right in fiction in the first place.

Deleted member 42 · Dec 6, 2011

BotByte said:
If this is for non-fiction, then if you quote the fact, you need to have it cited.

That depends on the fact. If I note that Chaucer wrote in Middle English, I do not need a citation. If I note that one pint equals 16 ounces, I do not need a citation.

BotByte · Dec 6, 2011

Medievalist said:
That depends on the fact. If I note that Chaucer wrote in Middle English, I do not need a citation. If I note that one pint equals 16 ounces, I do not need a citation.

Well that's called a reference, also called a citation.

My GOD, I think after 4 classes on citing material in college - not counting english and writing classes - the definition of cite would penetrate my brain.

Look Morg, if you want to cite or exemplify directly from a source, make sure you find the primary source material.

Let's say you google it and you find a nice article on the subject. You have to look at what is giving you the article. If it's .org (for example) it will be a bad source because an organization can say what they wish for the people they represent.

But if it's a government study, or independent study that published the findings, it's a primary source. (.gov or document published)

I remember I did a report about micro nuclear power plants and every sentence in that report was cited. But if it's not for college, they are less anal about the entire work.

And for the people who can't read between the lines: The sky is blue. (Gibbs. May 1997)

Reference:
Philip Gibbs May 1997
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/BlueSky/blue_sky.html

Deleted member 42 · Dec 6, 2011

BotByte said:
Well that's called a reference, also called a citation.

My GOD, I think after 4 classes on citing material in college - not counting english and writing classes - the definition of cite would penetrate my brain.

One would certainly hope so; apparently, it didn't.

BotByte said:
But if it's a government study, or independent study that published the findings, it's a primary source. (.gov or document published)

No, actually the study is a secondary source; a primary source would be the raw data.

BotByte said:
I remember I did a report about micro nuclear power plants and every sentence in that report was cited. But if it's not for college, they are less anal about the entire work.

Not if you're writing scholarly works, or a wide variety of monographs and white papers.

thothguard51 · Dec 6, 2011

If I read the OP right, he is asking about using published quotes and or facts he has found on the Internet or in a book, within a fictional story.

If he paraphrases, he should be alright as long as he does not use more than a line or two of the published work.

If he is really worried, he could always list them in a glossary of acknowledgements at the end of the book.

kuwisdelu · Dec 6, 2011

BotByte said:
Well that's called a reference, also called a citation.

My GOD, I think after 4 classes on citing material in college - not counting english and writing classes - the definition of cite would penetrate my brain.

Medievalist said:
One would certainly hope so; apparently, it didn't.

As always, it's as Lisa says. If I say "it is well-known the Poisson distribution is ill-suited to fitting overdispersed data" in a paper I send to Bioinformatics, I do not need to cite it. Everyone in the field knows that; it's a fact that is inherent to the nature of the Poisson distribution; it's common public knowledge (in my area). If I say, "the Negative Binomial distribution shows promise in such situations," then I could need to cite a study that showed this, because it's a disputable assertion.

No, actually the study is a secondary source; a primary source would be the raw data.

Well, I would say that depends on what kind of analysis was done. If it's just summary statistics, then yes. If it's anything more complicated, then I suppose you'd have to consider the particular software and code as part of the primary source as well.

/anal

Deleted member 42 · Dec 6, 2011

thothguard51 said:
If I read the OP right, he is asking about using published quotes and or facts he has found on the Internet or in a book, within a fictional story.

If he paraphrases, he should be alright as long as he does not use more than a line or two of the published work.

If he is really worried, he could always list them in a glossary of acknowledgements at the end of the book.

Just as general practice, paraphrasing does not prevent assertions of plagiarism or protect a writer from charges of copyright violation.

Nor does a citation protect one from accusations of plagiarism (not that while plagiarism is unethical and vile, it is not itself illegal) or copyright violation.

Jamesaritchie · Dec 7, 2011

Information of any type, including any fact, and anything thought to be a fact, public or not, common knowledge or not, is not covered by copyright, and neither is the generic phrasing of information. "The sun rises in the east, and sets in the west" was an example we had in college. Neither the information, not the way it's phrased, is covered.

In such cases, citing is more about given weight to a fact than of worrying about copyright. I can write "Half the world's tropical forests have been lost" all day long, and I'm not plagiarizing, and I'm violating no copyright.

But if I want anyone to believe the information, I need to cite a credible source.

Every word written, every sentence written, is not automatically covered by copyright, and writers do not have to jump through hoops to find another way of stating a simple fact simply because someone may have stated that fact in the same way.

zegota · Dec 7, 2011

The OP is seemingly writing fiction. I can see no reason you'd need a citation anywhere in your book simply because a character has a journal of common knowledge facts. I'd suggest you pull the facts from more than one source, though. It's going to be iffy if your entire journal comes from a single website. Copyright doesn't cover facts, but it can cover a specific organization of them.

On a tangent, I once had a teacher that requested a citation for the fact that the Union won the civil war. That may have been my first real facepalm.

Max Vaehling · Dec 7, 2011

Can't copyright facts. Otherwise, we'd be paying Newton's family every time an apple falls from a tree.

(Actually, there's a neat story idea in there. Be back in a sec.)

Copyright covers stuff you made. You didn't make a fact even if you discover it. (Unless you're a constructionist.)

But I wouldn't quote stuff from the net in a novel. It's just a few extra lines for you to write, and they'll be all yours.

bonitakale · Dec 8, 2011

kuwisdelu said:
I really wouldn't worry about this as much as you are.

If one of your characters says to another, "you know, we've already lost half of the Earth's rain forests" in your novel, no one is going to come and sue you. Most readers will not even fact-check you, and there's no particular requirement for you to be right in fiction in the first place.

Absolutely. He can note the facts in his journal, with or without website citations. If you want citations, you can make them up. You can use government websites. "In 1895, the eighth most popular girl's baby name was Ethel." "More than 90% of the women in the Baluchistan area of Pakistan have never been to school." "2011 is the world's tenth warmest year since record-keeping started."

You don't even have to find a unique way to say it, as long as you don't copy some specially interesting way. How many ways are there to say, "C.S. Lewis, John Kennedy, and Aldous Huxley died on the same day"?

Ed Panther · Dec 8, 2011

morg4nd said:
Hey. So I looked up "fun facts" on the internet...mainly stuff about the environment like, "Already half of the world's tropical forests have been lost."
Most of these facts are not cited and appear on more than one website. I was wondering whether i am allowed to use these fun facts word for word in my book (it's fiction), or is that copyright infringement?

On the other hand I have found a few facts that are cited...am I allowed to use those in my book if I cite them somewhere in the book? If so, where would that citation come up?

I've looked up copyright laws, but I wasn't able to come up with an answer.

Any advice would be helpful.

I don't think you are in any danger of plagiarism or needing to cite anything. The things you are talking about are public domain.

Disclaimer: (I'm pretty sure)

Silver-Midnight · Dec 9, 2011

I think as long as this is for fiction, you're okay. Again, I think.

Fun Facts and Copyright

morg4nd

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

Deleted member 42

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

robertbevan

practical experience, FTW

morg4nd

BotByte

Not a Reader, a Writer

morg4nd

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

Deleted member 42

BotByte

Not a Reader, a Writer

Deleted member 42

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

Deleted member 42

Jamesaritchie

zegota

Fantastic!

Max Vaehling

bonitakale

Ed Panther

Silver-Midnight