View Full Version : No more fairys? Noooo!!
LissyMiller
12-06-2005, 12:40 AM
It was just brought to my attention that children as young as seven are now associating the word fairy, not with magical beings, but with homosexuals. If this is the case, should authors steer clear of them in future works, or trust that kids will recognize the truth of the story?
IMHO, I believe that children would know the difference, but is this true? If not, what would the world be like with out tales of fairys?http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif
three seven
12-06-2005, 12:43 AM
Are you serious? I've been caught out like this before...
three seven
12-06-2005, 12:56 AM
Never mind, I'll answer it anyway.
What a minority of bigoted parents choose to encourage in their children should be no concern of yours as a writer. Mine (7 and 9) have shown no more concern about men who live with other men than they have in the colour of grass; to them, as to me, a fairy is a fairy.
Inspired
12-06-2005, 01:07 AM
I don't think fairies will die out because of this. I did notice the word "queer" disappear from our language. My grandmother always used to say it was a "gay day." That doesn't happen any more either. But, that's different than saying we don't have stories about fairies, because some people use that word to label gay people.
Language changes, but I don't think this is one that's going to be a permanent thing.
The use of the word "fairy" for homosexual men has been around for a while. If it didn't affect literature around the time when it first became a "popular" use, it's not going to. There will always be those kids (usually older kids) who will giggle when they first read or hear the word, but if it's a story about fairies, it's not like they can't figure it out.
TheIT
12-06-2005, 01:19 AM
You can always use the older spelling "faerie". Fairy tales are not going to go away. They have too much to teach.
three seven
12-06-2005, 01:29 AM
And of course, I'm not sure that a kid who refers to gay men as fairies is likely to want to read a story about, um... fairies anyway.
LissyMiller
12-06-2005, 02:51 AM
What a minority of bigoted parents choose to encourage in their children should be no concern of yours as a writer.
Language changes, but I don't think this is one that's going to be a permanent thing.
If it didn't affect literature around the time when it first became a "popular" use, it's not going to.
Fairy tales are not going to go away. They have too much to teach.
Thank you! This is just what I thought! But still, I felt a little worried for a moment when I thought about the words that have fallen out of use before because of this same reason(as Inspired mentioned).
FolkloreFanatic
12-06-2005, 05:52 AM
Fairy isn't going to die out. Don't concern yourself with bigoted parents anyway if you're a fantasy writer, because nothing you do is likely to affect whether or not their kids read your books.
Mattel has recently had a slew of 'Fairytopia' Barbie dolls and a movie for them. They're obviously not afraid of the word, and everything they sell has pink in it.
Storyteller5
12-06-2005, 06:52 AM
It was just brought to my attention that children as young as seven are now associating the word fairy, not with magical beings, but with homosexuals.
Where did you hear that? I'm just curious.
I do agree with the others. Besides, some books for 7 year olds will have pictures which obviously show the intention!
RubyRoo
12-06-2005, 08:06 AM
Well thats the first I've heard of it!
Bigots round here call them queers or lesbos :mad:
stormie
12-06-2005, 04:54 PM
Fairy tales and the word "fairy" are still used in the original context. What happens, though, when you read a book to most kids over the age of seven (I taught for many years), you'll lose their attention through all the giggles, esp. when a story is loaded with the word "fairy." Sad, but true. "Fairy tale" in itself is okay, but a story that keeps repeating the word "fairy" (such as, "Oh, fairy....") in every paragraph will definitely lose a group of children.
MacAllister
12-06-2005, 05:25 PM
At the Bottom of the Garden (http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/garden.htm) - a fairy story by Jo Walton.
PeeDee
12-06-2005, 07:05 PM
Fairy tales and the word "fairy" are still used in the original context. What happens, though, when you read a book to most kids over the age of seven (I taught for many years), you'll lose their attention through all the giggles, esp. when a story is loaded with the word "fairy." Sad, but true. "Fairy tale" in itself is okay, but a story that keeps repeating the word "fairy" (such as, "Oh, fairy....") in every paragraph will definitely lose a group of children.
It's a rule of writing (if we can call them rules, really) that if you any word too often in your story, you're eventually going to irritate your reader, sub-consciously or consciously, and you're probably going to lose them. Repeat "fairy" and they're gone, just like repeating "zestful" or "sugar" or even some language-of-a-stronger nature.
Fairies aren't going anywhere. You could start popularizing calling gay men "elves" and it likewise wouldn't make a bit of difference. It's just very foolish people using slang, and the old myths and stories of the world are far bigger than to be affected by that.
Jamesaritchie
12-06-2005, 08:29 PM
And of course, I'm not sure that a kid who refers to gay men as fairies is likely to want to read a story about, um... fairies anyway.
From my experience, all kids pick up the language of those around them. I've yet to be in a school where "fairy" wasn't used by pretty much every kid in the school to mean gay, even if they didn't mean is in a derogatory manner.
Like it or not, language changes, and if there's any group of people on earth who pay zero attention to politically correct language, it's kids.
Jamesaritchie
12-06-2005, 08:35 PM
Never mind, I'll answer it anyway.
What a minority of bigoted parents choose to encourage in their children should be no concern of yours as a writer. Mine (7 and 9) have shown no more concern about men who live with other men than they have in the colour of grass; to them, as to me, a fairy is a fairy.
I don't know if the parents who think this way are a minority or not, though from all the polls I;ve seen they definitely are not, but if they are, they're a minority of millions, and when numbers hit the millions, minority or majority stops mattering when you're talking business.
From my experience, I'd say your kids are the minority, and I mean the tiny, infinitesimal minority. Right or wrong, at least 90% of the kinds in elementary schools, at least all the elementary schools in this region, do associate "fairy" with gay, even if they don't necessarily mean it as an insult.
And rightly or wrongly, the majority of parents in this country do still teach their kids that two men living together is very much a big concern.
Right or wrong really isn't the issue. Business is the issue. Langauge changes, mores change, and no business wants to risk insulting millions, whether those millions are or aren't a minority, which, in this case, they aren't.
three seven
12-06-2005, 08:54 PM
Yes, I can of course only speak from a British perspective.
Business is the issue. Langauge changes, mores change, and no business wants to risk insulting millions, whether those millions are or aren't a minority, which, in this case, they aren't.Are you, then, suggesting that the word 'fairy' should be avoided by children's writers lest they upset homophobic parents?
PeeDee
12-06-2005, 09:05 PM
I think if you were using the term outside of dialogue (where you can really get away with so much, honestly) then yes, you should avoid it.
I think when you start avoiding/using words just for the sake of political correctness, then you're breaking the trust between you and your story, and more importantly between you and your reader.
three seven
12-06-2005, 09:07 PM
I think if you were using the term outside of dialogue... then yes, you should avoid it.So what word do you suggest should be used to describe a fairy then?
PeeDee
12-06-2005, 09:14 PM
Sorry, I didn't phrase myself clearly. What I meant was:
Outside of dialogue, if you're referring to a fairy, as in the creature, then you should use the word "fairy" because that is, in fact, it's name. Just like that.
If you're referring to a gentleman with certain girly attributes who is homosexual, I think you should avoid using the term "fairy" simply because I'm very much in favor of being generally nice, when I can.
If you're writing about a creature who is a fairy, and you think, "Ah, but some people are sensitive about the term "fairy" and I don't wish to offend, so I shall call it a erethreal little being from another plane of existence every time I talk about it" then you are betraying your story and your reader.
That was what I was bungling around trying to say. Mea culpa & a twit.
DaveKuzminski
12-06-2005, 09:41 PM
Keep in mind that some gays are referred to as queens. Doesn't mean that some countries won't still have one as a ruler.
Of course, this reminds me of a very old joke I heard as a teen where these two guys are in a bar when they realize that there's a gay man sitting not but a table away. One of the two men starts bothering the gay man with remarks about him being a queen which the gay man denies. Eventually, after another warning, the gay man gets up and proceeds to beat up the man who was bothering him. He then turns to the man's friend and says, "When he comes to, you tell him I'm not a queen. My parents are still alive and I'm only a princess." ;)
Christine N.
12-06-2005, 11:50 PM
Dave LOL
Yes, my book has fairies in it... the magical kind. So far I haven't had any complaints from my school aged readers, so...
It's all about context. If you describe a fairy, and paint a good picture for readers, there shouldn't be any problems.
RubyRoo
12-06-2005, 11:53 PM
From my experience, all kids pick up the language of those around them. I've yet to be in a school where "fairy" wasn't used by pretty much every kid in the school to mean gay, even if they didn't mean is in a derogatory manner.
Like it or not, language changes, and if there's any group of people on earth who pay zero attention to politically correct language, it's kids.
No one in our school calls gay men fairies, event hough our amazing, straight as a circle music teacher dressed up as a fairy all the time!
Medievalist
12-07-2005, 01:37 AM
It was just brought to my attention that children as young as seven are now associating the word fairy, not with magical beings, but with homosexuals. If this is the case, should authors steer clear of them in future works, or trust that kids will recognize the truth of the story?
IMHO, I believe that children would know the difference, but is this true? If not, what would the world be like with out tales of fairys?http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif
I think this is a total non issue, unless you're writing a story about male otherworld beings who have sex with each other--and if you are, don't you think that maybe that's a little too adult for little kids ? :)
In all seriousness, the title of my dissertation is
The Games Fairies Play: Otherworld Intruders in Medieval Literary Narrative
I keep getting invited to present papers at Queer Studies conferences, whereupon I have to thank them for the gracious invitation, but are they sure I'd be a good fit? I'm writing about "real" fairies . . .
If a story is about fairies, I would expect the word fairy to show up often in it. Sure, it could be overused, but there's no reason to look for synonyms for it if there are logical reasons to use it.
I have the opposite suspicion about children & using the word more rather than less. The first or second time, they'll be distracted & giggle, but the more it's used, the less funny they'll find it & it will desensitize them to it.
stormie
12-07-2005, 03:53 AM
Ah, did you ever teach second grade? That's an eye-opener. What the teacher may think is nothing to laugh at, the kids do. And you lose them. Big time. And they wouldn't be laughing with the story, but at it.
And when a character is always referred to as "fairie," instead of a proper name throughout the story, the kids will be on the floor, laughing hysterically. And again, not with the story, but at it. A mention of the fairy once, at the beginning, is quite enough.
And as James Ritchie said, (and I paraphrase), writing is a business, too. If lissy is only writing her story for her own kids, that's fine.
There will always be fairys, and as another person said (and again I paraphrase), it's the way it's presented and the picture painted for the reader.
three seven
12-07-2005, 07:37 PM
And like I said, not my kids.
Christine N.
12-08-2005, 01:08 AM
If it really bothers you, you can use the term pixie or brownie. Not exactly the same, but I don't think most people even know that.
Of course, kids would then think you have a book about a talking dessert.
TemlynWriting
12-08-2005, 01:14 AM
If it really bothers you, you can use the term pixie or brownie. Not exactly the same, but I don't think most people even know that.
Of course, kids would then think you have a book about a talking dessert.
Unless the children were part of the Girl Scouts, which has a younger section called Brownies. ;) (I was a Brownie when I was a little girl. :))
TemlynWriting
12-08-2005, 01:26 AM
On another note, I think it's sad that all of these once-innocent words are being used in a derogatory manner to describe homosexuals. I had a very dear friend who was gay, and one time I wanted to send him a card. Well, I showed my mom a few of my choices (I was in my teens), and one card had pansies on it. Well, I grew up with the sentiment that "pansies are for thoughts," and it was meaningful to me to let him know he was in my thoughts. I didn't even consider that this is another derogatory word for gay men, and when my mother reminded me of that, I decided against choosing that card, even though it had a completely different meaning for me. I find it disheartening, and a real shame.
Christine N.
12-08-2005, 04:10 AM
Yeah, I thought of the GS's too... that might also be a problem. Unless, of course, if you write in another country, where no one knows what a Brownie is. LOL.
"Pansies are nice flowers." That's what my friend says all the time, so that's what I think every time pansies are mentioned.
My roommate says that her pansy (that won't die, even w/ the snow) is trying to take over the world, though....
AnneMarble
12-08-2005, 06:32 AM
It was just brought to my attention that children as young as seven are now associating the word fairy, not with magical beings, but with homosexuals. If this is the case, should authors steer clear of them in future works, or trust that kids will recognize the truth of the story?
I still see children's books about fairies. Even YA books, for that matter -- although some use works such as fey, faeries, etc. I don't think those writers used alternative terms or spellings because they were afraid of the word "fairy" -- many of those terms are closer to the original spelling.
Speaking of faeries... The website NeoPets is popular with a lot of kids, and it still has faeries, faerie games, faerie quests, etc. I can't imagine that they would change that.
Mistook
12-10-2005, 01:30 PM
What a weird topic.
I would say, any kid wise enough to know that "fairy" is a euphamism for "homosexual" is also wise enough to realize that the fairies in fantasy stories are something different.
But to tell the truth, if I picture a kid so wise, he appears to me as some freckly red-headed bully with a snub nose, more interested in extracting lunch money from second graders than in reading fairy tales.
For young jerks like this, the list of words that set them to snickering is far longer and more comprehensive than any YA writer would ever be able to memorize. If you were to alter your writing to suit them, we might as well burn every copy of "Puss In Boots" while we're at it.
stormie
12-10-2005, 11:40 PM
Lissy was talking about stories written today, not years ago. Also, a group of children being read to by their teacher will react far different than a child who is being read to by a parent or caretaker at bedtime.
No one ever told Lissy that there were no more fairies in stories. It seems she used the term in a story so many times that kids age 7+ in a group setting would be, unfortunately, rolling on the floor, and not with the story, but at it.
And I have to agree. This is a weird topic.
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