How many really great sentences do you have?

sense · Dec 4, 2011

I'm in the early stages of writing a memoir. I did something weird: I was reading through my material so far and counted up all the really great "home run" sentences that I had. You know the kind I'm talking about? Be it a really hilarious line or really original thought...something you would rate 10.0/10.0...something you're CERTAIN the reader will get much much pleasure from reading.

Anyway, I counted up about 20, lol. What do you think a good goal would be? Not necessarily a total, but how about frequency? You know...the type of sentence that gets you fired up about writing!

Jake.C · Dec 4, 2011

This concept is a little scary. There's something suspect about writing at the sentence level. (As strange as that sounds).

In a perfect book every word of a sentence is important in creating the final impression you want to leave on the reader. Some sentences won't be pyrotechnic displays, and while these kinds of sentences can play a role in a great book, most of your sentences really shouldn't be 'impressive', in isolation.

B.R Myers wrote on this in A Reader's Manifesto.

The critics' admiration for Proulx reflects a growing consensus that the best prose is that which yields the greatest number of standout sentences, regardless of whether or not they fit the context. (In The New York Times the critic Richard Eder quoted with approval a flashy excerpt from Close Range about a car trip that the characters themselves do not appear to find remarkable at all.) Proulx's sentences are often praised for having a life of their own: they "dance and coil, slither and pounce" (K. Francis Tanabe, The Washington Post), "every single sentence surprises and delights and just bowls you over" (Carolyn See, The Washington Post), a Proulx sentence "whistles and snaps" (Dan Cryer, Newsday). In 1999 Tanabe kicked off the Post's online discussion of Proulx's work by asking participants to join him in "choosing your favorite sentence(s) from any of the stories in Close Range." I doubt that any reviewer in our more literate past would have expected people to have favorite sentences from a work of prose fiction. A favorite character or scene, sure; a favorite line of dialogue, maybe; but not a favorite sentence. We have to read a great book more than once to realize how consistently good the prose is, because the first time around, and often even the second, we're too involved in the story to notice. If Proulx's fiction is so compelling, why are its fans more impressed by individual sentences than by the whole?

So I'm afraid I'm a little confused by the question! I suppose it was only supposed to be a frothy topic for your favourite sentences and I might have brought it down a little. I guess what I would say is don't be discouraged if your number of 'impressive' sentences is low, because that's not what writing is about.

MJNL · Dec 4, 2011

I'm kind of with Jake C. Sure, I've written some sentences I think are fun or just marvelously concise and cleverly worded, but writing really comes down to: how many great stories can you tell? Rather than: how many great sentences can you write?

Actually, it's never even crossed my mind to count up the sentences I like that I've written. I'm more of a whole is greater than the sum of its parts kind of person.

But hey, everyone takes the greatest joy in different parts of their work. Nothing wrong with being proud on the sentence level.

Zombie Kat · Dec 4, 2011

Those are generally the sentences that, I am sad to say, I usually have to delete in a later draft. If a sentence is that beautiful, it's generally self-conscious, self-indulgent twattiness (in my own books)!

Jake.C · Dec 4, 2011

This actually reminds me of a quote I head a while ago.

"Read over your compositions, and wherever you meet with a passage which you think is particularly fine, strike it out." – Samuel Johnson

Not sure if I agree with him, but if you follow this rule, OP, you'll be 20 sentences lighter. :tongue

Zombie Kat · Dec 4, 2011

It's true that, if you love a sentence too much, it can be hard to be objective and judge whether it really adds to the book!

Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch: “Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it – whole-heartedly – and delete it before sending your manuscripts to press. Murder your darlings.”

dangerousbill · Dec 4, 2011

sense said:
I'm in the early stages of writing a memoir. I did something weird: I was reading through my material so far and counted up all the really great "home run" sentences that I had.

Home run sentences can be cool, but you risk drawing attention to your writing skill and pulling the reader out of the story. No one wants to pay for a book that is all 'look what a clever writer I am'. They want a story.

This is the logic behind that aphorism about 'murdering your babies'.

Stephen King calls it 'invisibility'. The reader should be so immersed in the story that s/he's no longer aware that they're reading. A clever play on words, the author directly addressing the reader , and similar things break the 'suspension of disbelief' that is so hard to cultivate.

Sometimes, when I think of something really clever and can't stop myself, I'll put it into the mouth of a character as dialogue or introspection so that it becomes part of the story.

mccardey · Dec 4, 2011

I think I agree with everyone here about good sentences that stick out. On the other hand, you don't want to write bad sentences, either. Not on purpose...

Don't get too attached to the 20, will you? Editors can be truly merciless.

NeuroFizz · Dec 4, 2011

Quality writing should be judged by someone other than the writer, by someone other than relatives of the writer, and by someone other than friends of the writer.

It's also a good idea to write for clarity for the reader, not to impress the reader with cool "home run" sentences. If the home run sentences happen, it should be a bonus rather than an intent.

Finally, what the author sees as home runs, readers may see as 400-foot foul balls.

Pheasant_Plucker · Dec 4, 2011

How many great sentences? None. That's why I drink.

Wayne K · Dec 4, 2011

SRHowen · Dec 4, 2011

I had one novel that was full of those wow sentences, all over the place. When I wrote the end, I went back to edit and discovered that I had a bug huge plot hole, guess I got so caught up in pretty prose that I left out the pretty plot.

And as Neuro says you can't really judge your own work on that level.

Chekurtab · Dec 4, 2011

Well, the obvious answer is the more the better. However, what is a great sentence for one reader is a disaster for another. At the end, the language is just the means. What makes it literature is your story, plots and the characters.

The Lonely One · Dec 4, 2011

I think the Sam Johnson quote is a little bit true and a little bit bullshit, much like most quotes.

I mean whatever Hemingway, I think "shit" is a little strong of a term for some of my first drafts.

While I don't know about memoir, I do think generally speaking narrative prose works best on a non-surface level, meaning you don't really "notice" them as hot-damn sentences (which is Mr. Johnson's point I believe). Hot-damn sentences often turn out to be self-masturbatory and detract rather than add. Of course that can't possibly always be true, especially if you are Virginia Woolf or conversely the sentences you like the most are the ones doing their job thanklessly.

Just my opinion. I don't really have "I like this sentence" moments so much as "I like this passage" ones.

Susan Coffin · Dec 4, 2011

sense said:
I'm in the early stages of writing a memoir. I did something weird: I was reading through my material so far and counted up all the really great "home run" sentences that I had. You know the kind I'm talking about? Be it a really hilarious line or really original thought...something you would rate 10.0/10.0...something you're CERTAIN the reader will get much much pleasure from reading.

Anyway, I counted up about 20, lol. What do you think a good goal would be? Not necessarily a total, but how about frequency? You know...the type of sentence that gets you fired up about writing!

Dear Writer Friend,

I am with Jake on this as well.

What you describe are "little darlings." They are so easy to get attached to, and we believe they will jump out at an agent and publisher who, of course, will deem us as brilliant for those very words. We refuse to let them go, even when they don't belong in our story.

My advice is to not get so attached to your writing that you believe your words are so great or original that they cannot be cut. Be willing to cut anything at any time. Work to make your writing tight and concise.

The point is to make every word in your work to count. Get rid of excessive words, reword things for clarity. Make every word count.

When I was a young person, Mom bought me a book that I treasure to this day: Make Every Word Count: A Guide to Writing That Works--For Fiction and Nonfiction by Gary Provost. It's an old book, but it's full of golden treasures.

Sarah Madara · Dec 4, 2011

I vote none.

I've taken quite a few writing classes of the sort where you write brief pieces of memoir, personal essay, or poetry and read it for the class. I have always been surprised by what moved the audience in my own writing. When people give their reactions by quoting back a line that stuck with them, it's never the one I thought was brilliant. NEVER. (The same goes for humor. The biggest laughs are always in places I didn't expect.)

Those "brilliant" sentences are one of the hardest things to let go of when you love words, I know. But what hooks readers in memoir is voice, and a big part of your unique voice comes from being naked on the page. Often the sentences we find most pleasing in our own writing are the ones that give us a little distance from the reader, that clothe our emotions in clever turns of phrase. Take it off, my friend. Take it ALL off

backslashbaby · Dec 4, 2011

It's a hard subject for me to ponder, because I think my ideas of what make a great sentence might be different than home-run sentences. I do really like how certain words come together a lot of times. Those are things that others like about how I write, too (unless I hit a clunker!).

I don't know. I certainly wouldn't go around cutting everything I thought was kind of especially cool. Ask some betas first at least, lol.

So my answer to the OP is probably every couple of pages at a minimum. Preferably every few paragraphs, but it is like a spice. You don't want to completely overwhelm the story itself or anything!

Genre will matter with this, too, I think.

ejbwr · Dec 4, 2011

Hm. What's with the aversion to beauty for the sake of beauty?

Some of us are more interested in a particular cadence, when reading a work aloud for example, than other touted devices. John Hawkes said it better than I ever could: "I began to write fiction on the assumption that the true enemies of the novel were plot, character, setting and theme, and having once abandoned these familiar ways of thinking about fiction, totality of vision or structure was really all that remained."

Is it that no one is reading William Gass? Or what of Gaddis? Barthelme?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hawkes_(novelist)#cite_note-0

mccardey · Dec 4, 2011

ejbwr said:
Hm. What's with the aversion to beauty for the sake of beauty?

Some of us are more interested in a particular cadence, when reading a work aloud for example, than other touted devices. John Hawkes said it better than I ever could: "I began to write fiction on the assumption that the true enemies of the novel were plot, character, setting and theme, and having once abandoned these familiar ways of thinking about fiction, totality of vision or structure was really all that remained."

Is it that no one is reading William Gass? Or what of Gaddis? Barthelme?

I don't know if there's an aversion-to-beauty thing happening here - I suspect it's more of a cautious response to the counting of really great sentences before the book has actually been written. I'm thinking cart, horse...

OP hasn't shown us the sentences and they might indeed be wonderful. But a handful of really great sentences does not a novel (or in this case, a memoir) make.

Although, if wishing made it so ...

ETA: I don't think we've met. Welcome to AW

The Lonely One · Dec 4, 2011

ejbwr said:
Hm. What's with the aversion to beauty for the sake of beauty?

Some of us are more interested in a particular cadence, when reading a work aloud for example, than other touted devices. John Hawkes said it better than I ever could: "I began to write fiction on the assumption that the true enemies of the novel were plot, character, setting and theme, and having once abandoned these familiar ways of thinking about fiction, totality of vision or structure was really all that remained."

Is it that no one is reading William Gass? Or what of Gaddis? Barthelme?

Barthelme is friggin amazing. It's fair to say litfic has more of a lean toward the language itself. That isn't to say it's purple but only that things like cadence, rhythm, sound, word choice, whatever is more important than it is in other genres. Though even those writers should be able to erase lines of their own even if they particularly like them, if it benefits the whole. I've experienced Barthelme mainly in short fiction, thinking specifically "The School." He's a great and sharp wordsmith which was half of why I liked that story so much (the one incidentally that got me reading him). The other half was that every sentence worked toward the eventual twist in the story that made all that building of tone, voice, etc. (the apologetic school teacher) so poignant--as opposed to it being a cute little voice-driven joke, without that final culmination.

Which is why I said the kill your darlings thing is kind of true but kind of crap at the same time.

thothguard51 · Dec 4, 2011

ejbwr said:
Is it that no one is reading William Gass? Or what of Gaddis? Barthelme?

Who?

Sarah Madara · Dec 4, 2011

ejbwr said:
Hm. What's with the aversion to beauty for the sake of beauty?

I have no aversion to beauty for the sake of beauty. I just think that beauty comes from within

Is it that no one is reading William Gass? Or what of Gaddis? Barthelme?

Sorry, no clue.

My advice is to get your work out to objective readers and listen to their reactions. Ask where they were most engaged, and where they may have been pulled out of the story. Look at what they felt vs. what you felt, and see if it matches up. If not, work on that. Your experience could be different from mine.

blacbird · Dec 4, 2011

Eleven.

caw

KellyAssauer · Dec 4, 2011

My goal when it comes to editing my own work is to make sure I never write a sentence I've read before. This isn't an easy task. I go over and over them for meaning, for sound, for pop & bang, and to make certain there aren't any extra words: can it be condensed?

Does this make my work concise? I hope so. Does it make the words sing? That's what I want! For me to stop and say 'that sentence is a darling' is a complete failure on my part since they should all be darlings. That's what I want from my writing. Each sentence should be interesting in it's own right and move the reader to the next one, and the next one, and so on... until they reach the end of the story and wish they had more of my work to read. That's where I want to be.

Plenty of readers and writers may disagree with this idea.

I'm not writing for them. =)

blacbird · Dec 4, 2011

sense said:
I'm in the early stages of writing a memoir. I did something weird: I was reading through my material so far and counted up all the really great "home run" sentences that I had. You know the kind I'm talking about? Be it a really hilarious line or really original thought...something you would rate 10.0/10.0...something you're CERTAIN the reader will get much much pleasure from reading.

Anyway, I counted up about 20, lol. What do you think a good goal would be? Not necessarily a total, but how about frequency? You know...the type of sentence that gets you fired up about writing!

Sentences, great or otherwise, do not exist out of context. So, post in SYW and show us what you think are your "great sentences".

Be prepared for appropriate comment on them.

caw

How many really great sentences do you have?

A Little Lost

Bacteria are your friends

Bacteria are your friends

Retired Illuminatus

The grad students did it

Erotica is not a four letter word!

Smart donkey. Please don't call me-

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

Tell it like it Is

Freeway stomper extraordinaire

~~~~*~~~~

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Freeway stomper extraordinaire

The Anti-Magdalene

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