Nicola Morgan Self-Publishes Backlist.

Thanks for the link.

That's an interesting statement. I mean, I do get where she is coming from in that if the agent did the work the first time around, or with other books that lead to her sucess then I can see why she would feel that way. I think I would too.

I wonder if more authors would feel the same way>

I suppose it depends how your agent/author relationship works. If the agent put in a lot of time to help shape up the book, it makes sense to feel they deserve something for it.

gothicangel said:

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/morgan-self-publishes-digital-backlist.html

Interesting comment from AWer Nicola Morgan in today's Bookseller:

Morgan said she had given her agent Elizabeth Roy a commission on the e-book, commenting: "I feel I owe her morally."

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*Applause*

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*scratches head*

…That makes about as much sense to me as paying a realtor a commission after he failed to sell your house, then you sell it a year later on your own, because you feel obligated for all those tips he gave you on how to make your house more sellable.

Now, in that situation, I might give a thank-you payment for the services rendered, but a full commission? I doubt it.

It's Nicola Morgan's choice to make, though.

I'm a friend of Nicola's, and I know her agent too.

Carradee said:

*scratches head*

…That makes about as much sense to me as paying a realtor a commission after he failed to sell your house, then you sell it a year later on your own, because you feel obligated for all those tips he gave you on how to make your house more sellable.

Now, in that situation, I might give a thank-you payment for the services rendered, but a full commission? I doubt it.

It's Nicola Morgan's choice to make, though.

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Carradee, you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Nicola isn't self-publishing books her agent has "failed to sell"; she's self-publishing books which have already been successfully published by major publishers, but which have now gone out of print and the rights reverted to her. You can read about how her agent helped her get to that point in this piece she wrote for my blog.

Good agents do so much more for their writer-clients than just find buyers for their books: they advise them on their career paths, help them decide what to write next and who for, and so on. I have no doubt that Elizabeth has earned the royalties which Nicola has decided to pay her.

Hi all
Rushing just now and will come back to explain further later but yes, as Old Hack says, my agent very much didn't fail to sell my books. My agent has been my rock, as I've said several times on my blog. She's stuck by me through thick and thin and earned horribly little from me because I don't write highly commercial fiction. She's my partner, in many ways. I felt it was the least I could do. She will also continue to support me by selling new fiction through publishers (I hope!) But this was my chance to bring back a disappeared title and give it a new life. Does that make sense?

On Twitter, as soon as the Bookseller article appeared, someone asked me whether I'd also feel I should cut the editor in. (It wasn't asked in a hostile way, just interested in the distinction.) I'm actually writing a blog post for a UK newspaper about that distinction. It's partly down to how people are paid. The editor was paid a salary by the publisher; she was doing her job. She has ownership of the words no more than the sales force or the cover designer. Or the proofreader. Job done. But an agent has a different role, different relationship, different earning model. No, she doesn't exactly have ownership of the words, but she has some rights - not in law but moral rights. Moral rights, I believe, reside in people's hearts; they are often about what feels right.

I feel very much that I owe my agent more than she has earned from this book and all my other books written while I'm still with her (as I am!). Each book is linked to the others; they are not separate entitities. She was and still is working for me as a career writer, and Mondays are Red's continued existence is very much a part of that career.

Therefore I felt I owed her. Therefore I am trying to repay that debt.

But that's not to say I believe everyone should do the same. I can only say what she has done for me and what I feel I need to do for her.

I hope people will be interested in what I've done. It goes against the current vogue for agents to publish their clients' backlist. In this case, I'm the publisher. I'm in control. There's no conflict of interest.

Thank you for clarifying. Your decision makes a bit more sense to me, now.

I've heard of contracts where the self-publishing author is obligated to pay a commission to the agent if they self-publish, even after the book is out of print with rights reverted, or even if the agent never sells the book, or if the author drops the agent for another. Glad to hear none of that was involved.

ghostlygalleon said:

I hope people will be interested in what I've done. It goes against the current vogue for agents to publish their clients' backlist. In this case, I'm the publisher. I'm in control. There's no conflict of interest.

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This also makes me happy.

ETA: I hope your self-publishing endeavor works out well!

Carradee said:

Thank you for clarifying. Your decision makes a bit more sense to me, now.

I've heard of contracts where the self-publishing author is obligated to pay a commission to the agent if they self-publish, even after the book is out of print with rights reverted, or even if the agent never sells the book, or if the author drops the agent for another. Glad to hear none of that was involved.

This also makes me happy.

ETA: I hope your self-publishing endeavor works out well!

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Actually, if the agent has worked with the writer on editing (unpaid, of course), I think that kind of clause is very fair! (I haven't come across it but I can imagine it happening nowadays.) Otherwise, you could get a situation where the agent signs the writer, works hard and expertly to improve the book to publishable standard, and the writer walks off and self-publishes.

Thanks for the good wishes. I hope it works out, too. It's not easy! Good luck with your own writing, too.

Caradee: I was wondering if you'd mind if I quoted your question in a piece I'm writing, which will either go on my blog or possibly a newspaper. This is what I'd quote: "[FONT=&quot]“I've heard of contracts where the self-publishing author is obligated to pay a commission to the agent if they self-publish, even after the book is out of print with rights reverted, or even if the agent never sells the book, or if the author drops the agent for another.”
If so, could you let me know the name you'd like me to use? Thanks! If you'd rather not be quoted, that's fine. I'll still mention the point more generally but not quote you.
[/FONT]

ghostlygalleon said:

I feel very much that I owe my agent more than she has earned from this book and all my other books written while I'm still with her (as I am!). Each book is linked to the others; they are not separate entitities. She was and still is working for me as a career writer, and Mondays are Red's continued existence is very much a part of that career.

Therefore I felt I owed her. Therefore I am trying to repay that debt.

But that's not to say I believe everyone should do the same. I can only say what she has done for me and what I feel I need to do for her.

.

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I SO love this. It's one thing to be obligated due to a contract; it's far more meaningful to feel morally obligated, and to fulfill that obligation. Thanks for showing how it's done.

Actually, if the agent has worked with the writer on editing (unpaid, of course), I think that kind of clause is very fair! (I haven't come across it but I can imagine it happening nowadays.) Otherwise, you could get a situation where the agent signs the writer, works hard and expertly to improve the book to publishable standard, and the writer walks off and self-publishes.

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The scenario you propose is unlikely to happen. However, if the language of the contract addresses that scenario only, I'm more open. As long as there are more specifics that protect the writer, such as the agent had x amount of time to sell the book and didn't sell it.

Carradee said:

I've heard of contracts where the self-publishing author is obligated to pay a commission to the agent if they self-publish, even after the book is out of print with rights reverted, or even if the agent never sells the book, or if the author drops the agent for another. Glad to hear none of that was involved.

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A contract like that is absolutely nuts. No one should sign such a thing.

The editor thing...

I've always wondered about people publishing their backlist...are they allowed to use the edited version from the publishing house? I have a contract with a small press (e-book only erotic romance thing under a pen name) and my contract specifically stipulated that when the rights reverted to me, I could not use the edits they did for me. So, I've always been curious about that. I guess if it's not in the contract, it's open season.

On a different note, I kind of wonder how enforceable it is, anyway. I mean, we weren't talking serious edits here (it was an erotic romance novella), just a bunch of eyes to gazes and likes to as ifs. How are they going to prove I could never have found those errors without them? If they'd suggested a big rewrite, I could see that, but...

Anyway, I think I've veered waay off topic. Sorry 'bout that.

I've checked this with a couple of agents: they both told me that they always insisted on a clause in the contracts their clients signed which stated that their clients owned the copyright on the edited version of the book. This was originally intended to allow them to resell rights elsewhere once the book went out of print and rights reverted to the author without it having to be edited again; but it also allows their client-authors to self-publish if they want to.

If you don't have that spelled out in the contract, then you must be careful: don't assume your previous publisher won't notice if you republish the book, and don't assume that they won't object to it, either.

Valerie, while I obviously agree with Old Hack about the extra security of having this (that you own copyright of edited text) in the contract, I actually question the principle behind this. It seems to me outrageous to say you don't own the final work! They are your words and you had to make a decision on every edit. Besides, if the copyright notice says copyright and your name, I feel it's clear that it's the words in the book that are yours, not the words before you agreed the edits. Even if they'd suggested a big rewrite, it's still yours. Also, does this mean that every beta-reader who made a suggestion somehow has ownership if you follow the suggestion? I think this is quite dangerous ground. I'm really glad you raised it, though! I feel a blogpost coming on!

I guess what this means is that we need to watch out for our rights even more vigilantly than before.

Ohhhh! This gave me warm fuzzies inside! I hope if I ever get an agent I have a relationship as good as this

Good call Nicola!

P.S. Write to be Published still sits next to my laptop when I write

ghostlygalleon said:

Caradee: I was wondering if you'd mind if I quoted your question in a piece I'm writing, which will either go on my blog or possibly a newspaper.[FONT=&quot]
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I don't mind. You may quote me as Misti Wolanski.

James D. Macdonald said:

[FONT=&quot]I've heard of contracts where the self-publishing author is obligated to pay a commission to the agent if they self-publish, even after the book is out of print with rights reverted, or even if the agent never sells the book, or if the author drops the agent for another.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]A contract like that is absolutely nuts. No one should sign such a thing.

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Agreed.

I've seen worse, though. Granted, my contract exposure has been in the realms of short stories and freelance writing.

gothicangel said:

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/morgan-self-publishes-digital-backlist.html

Interesting comment from AWer Nicola Morgan in today's Bookseller:



*Applause*

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Double that applause. I think it's very admirable and honest for Nicola to give her agent commission, and that's something we see so little of these days. It's refreshing and reminds me that not all humans are liars and cheats.

Kate - ooh, you have Write to be Published. Thank you!

Caradee (Misti) - thank you.

Alpha Echo - thank you, too. It does just feel right to me.

ghostlygalleon said:

Kate - ooh, you have Write to be Published. Thank you!

Caradee (Misti) - thank you.

Alpha Echo - thank you, too. It does just feel right to me.

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Haha, of course I do! You know, although you may not put my link my name with my Twitter handle.

KateHawkings said:

Haha, of course I do! You know, although you may not put my link my name with my Twitter handle.

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Ah, I'm with you now! all these names, so confusing...