I need to write a battle scene and I'm feeling a bit lost. The good guys have laid a trap and are luring the bad guys' space ships into it. The good guys have 100 warships and the bad guys have 10000. Hence the need for a really good trap. I don't know what kind of trap they've set or how this could play out. Any ideas? The have good technology and could have invented some new type of weapon like a mine field or something. Help!
Help with battle scene
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That depends on how much science you're using, and how much handwavium. There's a place for both approaches, so have fun with it. Don't be afraid to do a little research.
You can look at classic Terrestrial battles, to see how deceit and ambush worked. Already-published sf&f has some great examples. Iain Banks' 'Culture' novels and Lois McMaster Bujold's 'Miles Vorkosigan' novels have some interesting takes on space-battle ambushes, and bring up the factor of information-delay due to speed of light transmissions. Communication has always been one of the key factors in winning any battle: can your guys get info faster than the other guys?
As for neat tricks and traps, we're all familiar with hiding in nebulas and asteroid fields, courtesy of 'Star Trek' and 'Star Wars'. 'Firefly' used ships' graveyards as hidey-holes, really nasty magnetic nets to snare ships, and a 'Cry Baby' fake distress call to lure away law enforcement.
Science itself comes up with neat new opportunities, if you check up with astronomy blogs and government sites. For example, here's a bit that came up from my hazy memory of an astronomy podcast last year:
"The boundary between the sun's influence, known as the heliosphere, and interstellar space is thought to consist of four onion-like layers: the termination shock, where the solar wind grows increasingly turbulent as the sun plows through interstellar space; the heliosheath, where the wind grows turbulent and get compressed and heated; the heliopause, Voyager 1's current location, and the bow shock, the outermost region where the solar system in essence generates a wake in the tenuous gas and dust between stars."
Apparently, when they say the heliosheath gets hot, they mean it: around 100,000 Celsius. That's not the millions of degrees predicted, but it could affect an unprepared ship or an already-damaged one. Maybe heat-activated explosives sneakily placed on their hull?
Closer to a system's sun, you could always trigger or predict a solar flare and force your enemy into a race with one. Mini-black holes and other oddities are also tasty hazards, but are as dangerous to your guys as to the enemy.
Good luck!
You can look at classic Terrestrial battles, to see how deceit and ambush worked. Already-published sf&f has some great examples. Iain Banks' 'Culture' novels and Lois McMaster Bujold's 'Miles Vorkosigan' novels have some interesting takes on space-battle ambushes, and bring up the factor of information-delay due to speed of light transmissions. Communication has always been one of the key factors in winning any battle: can your guys get info faster than the other guys?
As for neat tricks and traps, we're all familiar with hiding in nebulas and asteroid fields, courtesy of 'Star Trek' and 'Star Wars'. 'Firefly' used ships' graveyards as hidey-holes, really nasty magnetic nets to snare ships, and a 'Cry Baby' fake distress call to lure away law enforcement.
Science itself comes up with neat new opportunities, if you check up with astronomy blogs and government sites. For example, here's a bit that came up from my hazy memory of an astronomy podcast last year:
"The boundary between the sun's influence, known as the heliosphere, and interstellar space is thought to consist of four onion-like layers: the termination shock, where the solar wind grows increasingly turbulent as the sun plows through interstellar space; the heliosheath, where the wind grows turbulent and get compressed and heated; the heliopause, Voyager 1's current location, and the bow shock, the outermost region where the solar system in essence generates a wake in the tenuous gas and dust between stars."
Apparently, when they say the heliosheath gets hot, they mean it: around 100,000 Celsius. That's not the millions of degrees predicted, but it could affect an unprepared ship or an already-damaged one. Maybe heat-activated explosives sneakily placed on their hull?
Closer to a system's sun, you could always trigger or predict a solar flare and force your enemy into a race with one. Mini-black holes and other oddities are also tasty hazards, but are as dangerous to your guys as to the enemy.
Good luck!
So the good guys are outnumbered 100 to 1? If they're dealing with equivalent tech then it's hard to fathom a trap that would work.
If non-equivalent tech then those odds are not a problem. Think a modern battle fleet versus say the Spanish Armada.
If non-equivalent tech then those odds are not a problem. Think a modern battle fleet versus say the Spanish Armada.
One of the best ambush techniques is the use of a bottleneck. A unit that can squeeze the enemy through a narrow passage or restrict their movement increases the effectiveness of a "killzone" exponentially. The success often rests on the location.
For a space battle, depending on your setting, this could include a mine field (as Filigree noted), or could also stretch to physical obstructions like an asteroid field/gravitational field (sun, black hole, etc). The challenge is the three dimensions of space. Unless a natural bottleneck exists, you may have to create one.
In the case of the asteroid field, there might be a "cleared" path used for standard navigation (similar to narrow channels bounded by reefs that sea-going vessels use). Transit through the tight areas is slow and ships are physically restricted to the region between the "safety bouys". Once along this path, the good guys can spring their trap, picking off enemy vessels as they bunch up. You could even double the effect with mines detonating around the asteroids, thereby creating more debris inside the killzone. As the enemy attempts to maneuver to engage, they'll lose a significant number of ships to the environment. Add in friendly-fire due to the fog of war, and you could conceivably chew up a much larger force.
A final thought is confusion of sensors. During the heat of combat, people tend to rely on certain items like navigation, vision, etc. If some of the ships have their sensors neutralized (whether navigation, weapon targeting, visual sensors, etc), they become less effective and easier prey. "Blinding" them would increase the chance of friendly-fire kills as well as less resistance against the good-guy assault.
Anywho, my two coppers. Hope they help.
For a space battle, depending on your setting, this could include a mine field (as Filigree noted), or could also stretch to physical obstructions like an asteroid field/gravitational field (sun, black hole, etc). The challenge is the three dimensions of space. Unless a natural bottleneck exists, you may have to create one.
In the case of the asteroid field, there might be a "cleared" path used for standard navigation (similar to narrow channels bounded by reefs that sea-going vessels use). Transit through the tight areas is slow and ships are physically restricted to the region between the "safety bouys". Once along this path, the good guys can spring their trap, picking off enemy vessels as they bunch up. You could even double the effect with mines detonating around the asteroids, thereby creating more debris inside the killzone. As the enemy attempts to maneuver to engage, they'll lose a significant number of ships to the environment. Add in friendly-fire due to the fog of war, and you could conceivably chew up a much larger force.
A final thought is confusion of sensors. During the heat of combat, people tend to rely on certain items like navigation, vision, etc. If some of the ships have their sensors neutralized (whether navigation, weapon targeting, visual sensors, etc), they become less effective and easier prey. "Blinding" them would increase the chance of friendly-fire kills as well as less resistance against the good-guy assault.
Anywho, my two coppers. Hope they help.
Oh boy. With enough 20mm or machine gun ammo a single helicopter could have wiped out any 16th-century Navy.
I'd like a more problematic case. How about Battlecruisers from 1909 versus Armored Cruisers from 1907?
The scene could resemble the Falklands Battle of Dec 8 1914, when the Invincible ambushed the German cruisers at a refueling station.
Ambush at refueling would be nice. Say the bad guys are deployed to fuel and have their fueling apparatus out (refueling at say a giant molecular cloud). And they are going slow. The good guys rip by too fast to be targetted and blast the bad guys to bits. Sort of like my favorite space battle in Bank's Excession
Steal the Battle of Salamis.
Anybody who recognises the lift will love you for your erudition. The rest will be awestruck.
With those odds, hit and run is my suggestion... especially if they want to live and fight another day.
As to how to show a space battle. Any scene is only going to be known from whatever PoV you are using. If its the MC on one ship, then all we readers should know is what is happening on that ship, or what is reported to the ship from other ships. We are not going to see much of the battles outside of ships, and we shouldn't if you are using 3rd person limited.
If multiple PoV's in 3rd person, you can switch to different ships so we have first hand knowledge of what is going on instead of just reading the reports from the other ships.
If Omniscient, now you can pull the camera back and show a larger scene, but I would still caution about jumping around too much or showing too large of a scene outside any ship.
My advice, choose 1 or 2 characters to show the scenes from and only show what they know and/or what is happening in their ships.
Massive battles in space generally only work on the big screen compared to massive land battles where the enviroment is much more friendly, so to speak.
Good luck on this...
As to how to show a space battle. Any scene is only going to be known from whatever PoV you are using. If its the MC on one ship, then all we readers should know is what is happening on that ship, or what is reported to the ship from other ships. We are not going to see much of the battles outside of ships, and we shouldn't if you are using 3rd person limited.
If multiple PoV's in 3rd person, you can switch to different ships so we have first hand knowledge of what is going on instead of just reading the reports from the other ships.
If Omniscient, now you can pull the camera back and show a larger scene, but I would still caution about jumping around too much or showing too large of a scene outside any ship.
My advice, choose 1 or 2 characters to show the scenes from and only show what they know and/or what is happening in their ships.
Massive battles in space generally only work on the big screen compared to massive land battles where the enviroment is much more friendly, so to speak.
Good luck on this...
Thank you. You guys rock. I think I got an awesome idea.
Have you seen this:
http://www.jhuapl.edu/ourwork/nsa/papers/SmallForceTheory.pdf
Have you seen this:
http://www.jhuapl.edu/ourwork/nsa/papers/SmallForceTheory.pdf
David Weber, I think in the Dahak series, set a trap where he drew the enemy close to a star and then (don't remember how) induced the star to explode, producing a nova. The enemy, needless to say, was destroyed.
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I'd go for what the Germans used to do in WW2 in North Africa. They would hide 4 very big and accurate guns (88mm FLAK) at the end of a very long flat plain (or big expanse of space). They would then get a couple of armoured cars to drive around and find the enemy. The armoured cars would naturally get attacked by the enemy. The cars would then flee, but only fast enough so the enemy could follow. They would then lead the enemy into the kill zone of these big long range guns. On one occasion a whole division of British tanks (some 200 tanks) was wiped out in a matter of minutes. The tanks could not shoot the German guns as they were too far away, but they were well within range of the Germans.
Anyway, good luck!
Anyway, good luck!
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Speed, acceleration, maneuverability, firepower, range, detection capability, subterfuge, history, leadership chain of command, training, determination, espionage, communication, timing, luck, and a host of other factors can make the difference that numbers might not matter.
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I really enjoyed what they did in Serenity with the Reapers. Great moment. But I'm just gonna leave this here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piVnArp9ZE0
I'd go for what the Germans used to do in WW2 in North Africa. They would hide 4 very big and accurate guns (88mm FLAK) at the end of a very long flat plain (or big expanse of space). They would then get a couple of armoured cars to drive around and find the enemy. The armoured cars would naturally get attacked by the enemy. The cars would then flee, but only fast enough so the enemy could follow. They would then lead the enemy into the kill zone of these big long range guns. On one occasion a whole division of British tanks (some 200 tanks) was wiped out in a matter of minutes. The tanks could not shoot the German guns as they were too far away, but they were well within range of the Germans.
Anyway, good luck!
Engagement ranges are a tricky thing. The 88mm gun had plenty of problems as the fact that the Axis forces in North Africa were eventually all hauled off to POW camps would suggest. For example, the 88 was about the easiest to spot object in all of North Africa so on several occasions as the sun rose, the 88s were revealed to allied infantry long before the 88s could spot anything. The infantry promptly shot the crews off the 88s (notably in the first attack on Tobruk, but also during the Crusader battles when a Vickers (heavy MG) company commander, Captain James Joseph Bernard Jackman of Dublin, only son of Dr. J.J. Jackman from Glengeary, had a brief career setting up his heavy machine guns to knock out 88s. ).
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Good to see someone knows their history too!See Wikipedia on 88mm Flak 18;
'During the North African campaign, Rommel made the most effective use of the weapon, as he lured tanks of the British 8th Army into traps by baiting them with apparently retreating tanks. When the enemy tanks pursued, concealed 88s picked them off at ranges far beyond those of their 2-pdr and 6-pdr guns. A mere two flak battalions destroyed 264 tanks throughout 1941.'
I will see if I can find the reference to the battle I mention in one of my WWII books, if you are interested.
I'm familiar with this problem when I was writing the first draft of my book I did get to a point (about three quarters of the way through) where I thought 'whoops, I appear to have doomed the Earth'
There is some good stuff above and I'd like add a couple of thing.
Strengths and Weaknesses: Each side should be looking to play to its strengths. In my book the Nameless ships are fragile but have long range weapons, the Humans, sturdy but with short range gun. So the humans have to try to get into a range at which they can hit back without getting shot up on the way in. So if your ships are good in close try to start the battle at knife fighting range, if long snipe at a distance, stealthy then hit and run, etc, etc. It depends heavily on the tech of your universe.
Logistics: There is a saying that when it come to military history amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. Put simply troops at the front can't fight if they don't get the supplies they need to fight with. The second Gulf War saw examples of this when American tanks had to pause because the fuel supplies weren't keeping up with them. A starship without the fuel to go anywhere is an over-engineered space station.
Finally remember cracking point. Battles where one side fights to the last man are in modern times comparatively rare and get rarer the bigger the battle. In a lot - too many to list but Crete 1941 is a good example - victory is decided less by brilliant maneuvers and more by which side blinks first. If your heroes have their back to the wall then that gives them grounds to have a 'to the last man, to the last bullet' mindset.
Hope that is helpful.
There is some good stuff above and I'd like add a couple of thing.
Strengths and Weaknesses: Each side should be looking to play to its strengths. In my book the Nameless ships are fragile but have long range weapons, the Humans, sturdy but with short range gun. So the humans have to try to get into a range at which they can hit back without getting shot up on the way in. So if your ships are good in close try to start the battle at knife fighting range, if long snipe at a distance, stealthy then hit and run, etc, etc. It depends heavily on the tech of your universe.
Logistics: There is a saying that when it come to military history amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics. Put simply troops at the front can't fight if they don't get the supplies they need to fight with. The second Gulf War saw examples of this when American tanks had to pause because the fuel supplies weren't keeping up with them. A starship without the fuel to go anywhere is an over-engineered space station.
Finally remember cracking point. Battles where one side fights to the last man are in modern times comparatively rare and get rarer the bigger the battle. In a lot - too many to list but Crete 1941 is a good example - victory is decided less by brilliant maneuvers and more by which side blinks first. If your heroes have their back to the wall then that gives them grounds to have a 'to the last man, to the last bullet' mindset.
Hope that is helpful.
Any option you consider should take into account the skills of your characters. What are they good at? What can each individual character bring to any plan using thier unique abilities? In Firefly, for example, they make a lot of use of Wash's excellent flying abilities and Kayleigh's mechanical skills. The Doctor always prefers to out-think an opponent than fight them. Picard will always resort to diplomacy (his primary skill) before he tries any other option. Han Solo resorts to his flying ability to flee danger, fighting only as a means of getting enough time to escape.
Don't forget the good old fashoined deception tactics...
Someone already mentioned fooling sensors to make ships invisible or seem as if there are more/less than there are or locate the ships in different locations to where they actually are.
How about a good old fashioned 'hacking into their computers' tactic? Have a good enough computer expert on board who can write a decent virus, transmit said virus on a frequency wavelength they are using (perhaps the one that updates their navigation equipment). Virus can then do whatever damage you want it to do until the enemy manage to isolate it and remove it (and that may involve a complete shut down of their computer network and hours of work depending on how you want to play it). At the very least it might fritz thier navigation, blank their viewscreens (or replace them with a funny image), disable any computers they use for targetting etc. If you want to be really nasty, the virus could turn off thier lifesupport or activate the self destruct (though I think both of those options should not be easy to do...) - not an honourable 'good guy' option necessarily but one you may want to think of.
Of course, they will probably only get away with this once (next time they'll have better AV software ) but that is true of any clever plan...
Another place to go to for ideas of outnumbered odds is Blakes 7. There were loads of situations where they ended up outnumbered and ended up using their skills to get them out.
Don't forget the good old fashoined deception tactics...
Someone already mentioned fooling sensors to make ships invisible or seem as if there are more/less than there are or locate the ships in different locations to where they actually are.
How about a good old fashioned 'hacking into their computers' tactic? Have a good enough computer expert on board who can write a decent virus, transmit said virus on a frequency wavelength they are using (perhaps the one that updates their navigation equipment). Virus can then do whatever damage you want it to do until the enemy manage to isolate it and remove it (and that may involve a complete shut down of their computer network and hours of work depending on how you want to play it). At the very least it might fritz thier navigation, blank their viewscreens (or replace them with a funny image), disable any computers they use for targetting etc. If you want to be really nasty, the virus could turn off thier lifesupport or activate the self destruct (though I think both of those options should not be easy to do...) - not an honourable 'good guy' option necessarily but one you may want to think of.
Of course, they will probably only get away with this once (next time they'll have better AV software
) but that is true of any clever plan...Another place to go to for ideas of outnumbered odds is Blakes 7. There were loads of situations where they ended up outnumbered and ended up using their skills to get them out.
Hooah Areteus. The humans must have a bigger brain, having less brawn. Maybe they figure out how to use a black hole to stick and carrot the bad guys to their doom. You know, bend the faster than light, polar emissions as stick, and the inescapable gravity as carrot. Maybe tear the dimensional membrane and poke them into another universe...ah, the endless possibilities...Good luck.
See Wikipedia on 88mm Flak 18;
'During the North African campaign, Rommel made the most effective use of the weapon, as he lured tanks of the British 8th Army into traps by baiting them with apparently retreating tanks. When the enemy tanks pursued, concealed 88s picked them off at ranges far beyond those of their 2-pdr and 6-pdr guns. A mere two flak battalions destroyed 264 tanks throughout 1941.'
I will see if I can find the reference to the battle I mention in one of my WWII books, if you are interested.
I'm sure the 88s were effective weapons, but if you have to be in retreat to get them to work, they obviously have some limitations.
In the context of a space battle where anything goes, letting the enemy spot you and pursue you would probably not work as well since there's no terrain the enemy wants to seize except for locations where you would want to site defensive weapons anyway (such as planets or asteroid belts).
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Ideally you want a situation where the enemy's superiority of numbers doesn't just cease to be an asset, but actively works against them. Co-ordinating the movements of ten thousand ships seems to me to be a logistical nightmare. They could easily end up firing on each other or getting so close that they can't manoeuvre without damaging their own side's ships.
What I'd look to do is lead the ships into a position where they attack each other thinking they're attacking you.
What I'd look to do is lead the ships into a position where they attack each other thinking they're attacking you.
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Mmmm.... maybe I should be clearer about my posts.
What if you capture the enemies princess and fly off in your ship. They have to chase you to get her back. And what if you hide your really big, long range guns behind some sort of black star like camouflage so that they cannot be seen. Last place you would look for big guns is in the middle of empty space. Then fly your ship to your hidden guns. When the enemy is in range, open fire. The enemy cannot shoot back and it takes too long to fly away and out of range of your guns.
Just one of many possible suggestions. Good luck.
What if you capture the enemies princess and fly off in your ship. They have to chase you to get her back. And what if you hide your really big, long range guns behind some sort of black star like camouflage so that they cannot be seen. Last place you would look for big guns is in the middle of empty space. Then fly your ship to your hidden guns. When the enemy is in range, open fire. The enemy cannot shoot back and it takes too long to fly away and out of range of your guns.
Just one of many possible suggestions.
Good luck.
What if they lure them into an "anti matter mine field". Say, for instance that they use a decoy ship to draw the enemy fleet into it, maybe? (this is just off the top of my head so bear that in mind!) lol
anit-matter to me seems like the ultimate space weapon because if it collides with any normal matter the result is an enormous explosion that could take out ships that are close to it as well and reduce the battle to an even playing field.
anit-matter to me seems like the ultimate space weapon because if it collides with any normal matter the result is an enormous explosion that could take out ships that are close to it as well and reduce the battle to an even playing field.
they could also bottle neck them in between two black holes... as black holes routinely collide in space it's not that much of a stretch.
Just off the top of my head: Cloaked mines; a variation of the Picard maneuver; have your 100 ships fly in tight formation dragging a solar flare and then suddenly vector away in a starburst pattern allowing the hidden flare to continue toward the enemy, washing over and destroying them; Trojan Horse; have your hundred shoot graviton waves at the on-coming enemy forcing them to collide with each other; Fireships ala the British destruction of the Spanish Armada.
"Fireships" would just be ships and easier to avoid than standard projectiles -- after all the Armada avoided the fireships.
Other things to think about: Why are the bad guys all massed in one place? Why can't they be lured out and picked off?
Sir Francis Drake used fire ships against the Spanish Armada with strategic success. Although, you are correct, they did no direct damage, they broke up the Spanish formation allowing the British to pick them off one by one.
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