Audience consideration

_Sian_ · Nov 25, 2011

This question has been bugging me for quite a while, and while I doubt there's a right or wrong, I just wanted to see what you lovely people thought.

Long story short - I wrote something like four books before the age of sixteen, and while I got better with each one, the idea that there was an audience I had to consider never formed in my mind. It was more along the lines of - I'm enjoying myself, of course everyone else will.

Then I discovered prose, and grammar, and AW and all sorts of lovely things that greatly improved what I wrote, but caused a major panic attack that made me flail around umming and ahhing for about six months.

These days, I still have that awareness of the piece being judged, but I push it aside until the third or forth draft. Otherwise I wouldn't write anything. So my question for you all is: When do you start considering the judgement of your work and your audience? I have to be done with the characters and plot, but I know others start thinking about at the plotting stage. What works for you?

Purple Rose · Nov 25, 2011

I write for myself, for my own pleasure. If I never get published because agents or publishers believe people will not like what i wrote, then that's fine. There are countless books out there, published by reputable houses, which have left me baffled as to the appeal of the work. I mean, we've all read books so bad and wondered how they even sold one copy. Maybe mine will one day be that bad work that got sold or the good work that was dismissed for too long and finally got published. It won't matter to me.

Have those 4 books you wrote in your teens been published? If not, have you considered editing them based on your wisdom gained since then to have them polished before trying to get them published?

The answers to your questions may well lie in the response to your previous and current work.

Hope others can give you more helpful answers.

LadyDae · Nov 25, 2011

sianshan said:
This question has been bugging me for quite a while, and while I doubt there's a right or wrong, I just wanted to see what you lovely people thought.

Long story short - I wrote something like four books before the age of sixteen, and while I got better with each one, the idea that there was an audience I had to consider never formed in my mind. It was more along the lines of - I'm enjoying myself, of course everyone else will.

Then I discovered prose, and grammar, and AW and all sorts of lovely things that greatly improved what I wrote, but caused a major panic attack that made me flail around umming and ahhing for about six months.

These days, I still have that awareness of the piece being judged, but I push it aside until the third or forth draft. Otherwise I wouldn't write anything. So my question for you all is: When do you start considering the judgement of your work and your audience? I have to be done with the characters and plot, but I know others start thinking about at the plotting stage. What works for you?

It depends for me. I do have to keep an audience in mind when writing as in is it for adults or is for children or teens, and usually I have this in mind before I write? Why? Because it dictates how things will happen, what the characters will talk about, and how the plot of the story evolves. Because while an adult story and a teen story can be about the same thing and have a similar plot, the way it happens would be completely different and the choice the characters would make to get to those points would be completely different.

So in the sense that I do have to keep in mind whether it's for adults or children, in that sense I do keep it in mind. Then again, my stories might have a wide appeal, because I love YA stories that appeal to adult minds (mind you, I'm only twenty).

Anything I write that's purely for me is a hot mess to be quite honest, it would be a purely unpublishable work, not that things that may be publishable aren't for me too, but I'm a little more considerate. Lol

Ashley Leigh · Nov 25, 2011

I always try to keep my target audience in mind when I start work on a new piece. Obviously, the voice of a story geared towards men in their early 20s to early 40s is going to be very different from the voice of a story geared towards teenage girls. But I don't write to appease other people. I write because it makes me happy.

And because I have too many freaking voices yammering away in my head, all fighting to be heard. (Remember, it's not schizophrenia if you're a writer! At least that's what I keep telling myself . . . heh.)

I think you need to consider the audience you are writing for while you are writing because it will help keep your story focused and will be significant when marketing to said target audience if your story is published. But, you also need to write the story you want to write.

Okay, I'm done rambling now. Promise.

blacbird · Nov 25, 2011

Purple Rose said:
I write for myself, for my own pleasure. If I never get published because agents or publishers believe people will not like what i wrote, then that's fine.

So, have you ever submitted your work for publication? If so, why? If not, why do you frequent this site?

caw

_Sian_ · Nov 25, 2011

Purple Rose said:
Have those 4 books you wrote in your teens been published? If not, have you considered editing them based on your wisdom gained since then to have them polished before trying to get them published?

Nope. Nada. Never.

The writing wasn't terrible, (due to multiple drafts) but I didn't know a lot about plot and character considerations at that stage. And as those books were all part of an overall series arch, by the time I started to understand story like that on a conscience level, the fourth book might have worked better, but it was enexplicabbly tied up with the first, which was rather broken.

I've put them down to a learning experience, and moved on. Maybe I'll come back one day and wrestle the main premise into a different story, or steal bits of it, but I doubt it. Too much else running around in my head.

bearilou · Nov 25, 2011

blacbird said:
So, have you ever submitted your work for publication? If so, why? If not, why do you frequent this site?

caw

Um...why ask these whys? Does it matter why someone is submitting for publication?

Does it matter that someone may not be looking to submit?

My 'why' is, why does it matter why anyone frequents AW? Is AW only for those seeking submission and all others should move on?

Becky Black · Nov 25, 2011

I think for me essentially the act of writing it at all means the idea of an audience is somewhere in my mind. Otherwise why not just let it all play out in my head? Why put it into words where it's never as good as what I'm seeing in my head anyway? If I'm writing it I must want to share it, even if it's only with an older version of myself in the future!

As for working towards a specific readership, yes, I do that more now than I used to when I was a hobby writer. In fact I recently stopped writing a draft at about 12k words in, because I was having trouble with it and one of those troubles was that it wasn't romantic enough for the genre I'm working in right now. So really I don't have time to work on it as it doesn't fit the audience I'm aiming at right now.

Yes, from the start I'm working towards creating a story of a certain length, with the compulsory Happy Ever After and with plenty of sex along the way!

DancingMaenid · Nov 26, 2011

bearilou said:
Um...why ask these whys? Does it matter why someone is submitting for publication?

Does it matter that someone may not be looking to submit?

My 'why' is, why does it matter why anyone frequents AW? Is AW only for those seeking submission and all others should move on?

Uh, yeah, this. I guess I missed the memo that I had to have publication goals to be on this site.

But to address the OP: I'm not formally published, but I tend to consider these things when it comes to making my writing clear. I write for myself, and I also really believe that if you write things you like, you'll be able to find readers who like the same stuff. So I wouldn't write something different than what I want in order to please a hypothetical audience. But I find it helpful to try to look at my writing from an outside perspective and imagine how a reader would see it.

seun · Nov 26, 2011

For me, the first draft is all about getting the story down. Then when I read through it, I see plots and characters developing in a way I didn't see during draft one. So when it comes to the second draft, I have much more of an idea what the story is really about. That's when audience consideration comes into play for me.

lorna_w · Nov 26, 2011

I'm always aware of audience, always writing for the audience, always concerned that the reader is entertained, moved, not getting bored. I think, I plan, I structure, I edit for that. Writing fiction for publication is like being a good lover, having "take care of your partner day" in bed. It's not like exposing yourself to a stranger in the park and then demanding they call it good sex for them, too.

I have a journal I keep for writing that's just for me.

scarletpeaches · Nov 26, 2011

Firstly, when it comes to people seeking publication or not...hey, this is an open site. Anyone can join. But when it comes to spending my time critting in any detail, if someone's not writing with publication as their aim, I move on. My time's too valuable to waste on writers who treat writing as a hobby. I know, there will be people out there who say "How selfish!" Well, my deadlines give me a right to be. Time is money. If I'm taking time away from my own book to help you with yours, people who are aiming for publication take priority over hobbyists.

But as to the OP -- I don't think I do consider my audience. I mean, if I'm subbing to an erotic romance publisher, there's the expectation of a happy ending (heh) but usually that comes about naturally as I'm writing the book.

I used to write without a clue about what I was doing, but these days certain things have been drilled in to me, so I don't commit the same sins I did in first drafts as I did when I was, for example, sixteen. I don't look upon that as considering my audience. I just say I've re-trained myself.

jaksen · Nov 26, 2011

scarletpeaches said:
Firstly, when it comes to people seeking publication or not...hey, this is an open site. Anyone can join. But when it comes to spending my time critting in any detail, if someone's not writing with publication as their aim, I move on. My time's too valuable to waste on writers who treat writing as a hobby. I know, there will be people out there who say "How selfish!" Well, my deadlines give me a right to be. Time is money. If I'm taking time away from my own book to help you with yours, people who are aiming for publication take priority over hobbyists.

But as to the OP -- I don't think I do consider my audience. I mean, if I'm subbing to an erotic romance publisher, there's the expectation of a happy ending (heh) but usually that comes about naturally as I'm writing the book.

I used to write without a clue about what I was doing, but these days certain things have been drilled in to me, so I don't commit the same sins I did in first drafts as I did when I was, for example, sixteen. I don't look upon that as considering my audience. I just say I've re-trained myself.

Agreed. Esp. with the treating writing like a hobby line.

For me, writing is serious work. Damn serious work. I can see why some people write for themselves, find it enjoyable, it's an outlet for them, and so on. That's very nice, but for many of us publication is the goal. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually. I like to think that the published writers (of today) are here to help out the published writers of tomorrow.

And there are people who write for enjoyment who will suddenly recognize, hey I'm pretty good, I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna query and see what happens.

It's the best thing in the world to turn something you love, and for which you have a talent, into a finished product you can share with others - and for which you get rewarded. Damn, it's one of the nicest things anyone can hope for.

NeuroFizz · Nov 26, 2011

I don't write with the judgment of the readers in mind. I write for the enjoyment and entertainment of those readers. There is a huge difference (in my mind). I write to TRY to get those readers to become emotionally invested in the story, and I plan out the writing to do just that--by giving them some room to form their own visions about various aspects of the players and the settings. And I try to nudge them along my planned story-arc path without leading them by the nose over every bump and bend on that road. So, the readers are constantly on my mind, but not for their opinions, rather for their (hopefully) enjoyment of the story.

I guess my philosophy is to try my best to write a damn good story and let people judge it as they will. Evaluation of fiction is so subjective, worrying about external judgment could cripple a writer and potentially harm the development of the story. Damn good stories seem to be viewed favorably by a good number of readers, so writing one is a significant goal for me.

bearilou · Nov 26, 2011

scarletpeaches said:
Firstly, when it comes to people seeking publication or not...hey, this is an open site. Anyone can join. But when it comes to spending my time critting in any detail, if someone's not writing with publication as their aim, I move on. My time's too valuable to waste on writers who treat writing as a hobby. I know, there will be people out there who say "How selfish!" Well, my deadlines give me a right to be. Time is money. If I'm taking time away from my own book to help you with yours, people who are aiming for publication take priority over hobbyists.

But as to the OP -- I don't think I do consider my audience. I mean, if I'm subbing to an erotic romance publisher, there's the expectation of a happy ending (heh) but usually that comes about naturally as I'm writing the book.

I used to write without a clue about what I was doing, but these days certain things have been drilled in to me, so I don't commit the same sins I did in first drafts as I did when I was, for example, sixteen. I don't look upon that as considering my audience. I just say I've re-trained myself.

Not going to argue about the value of our time in giving our crits to someone who is not looking to publish. Only you can assign the value to your time and how you spend it and it's perfectly within your rights to do so.

Except that's not what was implied by blacbird's comment. He asked why they were on a writing site if they were just writing as a hobby, not why they were getting crits.

I started out as a hobbyist when I first signed up here. I have since, as jaksen pointed out, decided that I would set my eye to publication. My desire changed, my dedication to what I was doing didn't.

I'd hate to think that I had been unwelcome here because of that. Which was...sadly...the implication in that statement.

:Shrug:

But to the OPs question, I have an idea of what my audience expectation is when I sit down to write but I try not to slavishly stick to it to the exclusion of all else, including my own desire in telling a story and letting it develop naturally in the direction it needs to go.

Layla Nahar · Nov 26, 2011

I write with the reader in mind, to some degree, from the time I'm writing my draft, in that I try to write the best possible sentence, each sentence, and try to keep in mind (based on my own reading & what others say about their experience) how the written word affects the mind as you read. My goal is for my words to transparently generate the completest picture possible. If I get hung up on something to the point that it slows me down then I just go with whatever my mind is able to generate. If it needs fixed later, I can do that.

In terms of the story, I just try to get a consistent compelling story - for that point I just keep myself as the reader in mind, as much as possible.

I'm writing to be published. When I give reader feedback (were talking SYW here, right?) I assume that the writer's goal is to publish. It would help a lot if those writing just for their own pleasure would share that when they post, for sure.

(like Neurofizz's point about the judgment of readers vs their enjoyment)

RunWrite · Nov 26, 2011

I write with the idea of getting published, but I write what I would want to read. I've finished my first book -- so far, and perhaps always, unpublished -- but I have written a few personal essays. The ones that feel successful are the ones that were published. I see the others as useful exercises on good days, failures on others.

I don't need a lot of readers. I just need the formal acceptance. This is why, for me, self-publication wouldn't work.

MJNL · Nov 26, 2011

Becky Black said:
I think for me essentially the act of writing it at all means the idea of an audience is somewhere in my mind. Otherwise why not just let it all play out in my head? Why put it into words where it's never as good as what I'm seeing in my head anyway?

I think this is pretty characteristic of how I function. The fact that I'm clearly trying to communicate to/with someone by putting my thoughts into words is never far from my mind.

Toothpaste · Nov 26, 2011

NeuroFizz said:
I don't write with the judgment of the readers in mind. I write for the enjoyment and entertainment of those readers.

This. I agree with this.

Further I don't see how writing with an audience in mind needs to be a bad or stressful thing. I enjoy thinking that what I'm writing will be affecting people, I like to phrase sentences and structure plot to surprise and delight.

And I think that's the way the OP should look at it. It's not about proving yourself to readers, it's about making their experience as readers the best you can make it be. It's not about compromising your work, or trying to seek approval, it's about storytelling. Writing only happens in a vacuum when you're journaling. Other than that, you have an audience. And that's what makes the experience so special.

Becky Black · Nov 26, 2011

I think there's a difference too between writing to an audience and pandering to that audience and what they say they want (which isn't always what they actually buy.)

I guess you could say you don't write what the audience say they want, you write what the audience didn't know they wanted until you gave it to them. (And after that I'll have world peace and the moon on a stick, please.

)

DancingMaenid · Nov 26, 2011

Toothpaste said:
Further I don't see how writing with an audience in mind needs to be a bad or stressful thing. I enjoy thinking that what I'm writing will be affecting people, I like to phrase sentences and structure plot to surprise and delight.

I think a lot of this comes down to choosing the right genre for you, too. I find a lot of the audience expectations and publisher guidelines for romance to be really off-putting and limiting, but writing romance isn't really for me. If it were, maybe I'd be more inclined to write stories that fit what that audience wants and expects.

I think if you feel like you need to write things you don't want or change major aspects of your writing in order to please readers, that may be a sign you're not writing for the right audience for you. Ideally, considering the audience should strengthen your work.

_Sian_ · Nov 26, 2011

OP here - thanks for all your answers. Definitely interesting.

NeuroFizz said:
I write to TRY to get those readers to become emotionally invested in the story, and I plan out the writing to do just that--by giving them some room to form their own visions about various aspects of the players and the settings. And I try to nudge them along my planned story-arc path without leading them by the nose over every bump and bend on that road.

This I agree with. Lead to a thought - I suppose the moment I started writing in acts, and became aware of story structure I started thinking of audience enjoyment. Also personal enjoyment. It occurs to me that keeping audience enjoyment in mind might facilitate your own enjoyment of your work when you read it over and recognise the things that you like when you're a reader.

Still though, I'm not sure I'm consciously aware of that. It's more of something that just happens because I want to enjoy what I'm writing. Maybe being more conscious of it will help with the process.

Anyway, interesting replies.

Kado · Nov 27, 2011

I have an audience in mind from the get-go and I write for that audience. The audience isn't necessarily a 'market' or 'demographic' as such, just some invisible, inhuman watcher-over-my-shoulder so to speak. I always keep this watcher in mind at all times. I rarely write for myself. If I did, my story would take off in all sorts of nonsensical directions and my two leads would do nothing but shag.^^

MamaStrong · Nov 27, 2011

I write with the idea of wanting to be published someday. I look at writing as an art form: the paper is your canvas, your paint is your pencil (or keyboard, you get where I'm going with this), and when you're done, you have a beautiful piece of work. A piece that you'd like to possibly share with others. So I write to share.

GFanthome · Nov 27, 2011

As I said in another thread, if I don't write, my head will explode. My stories don't take form around a specific audience... they just are what they are.

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