Dialogue tags, adverbs, and more

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celticroots

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I've been reading that's it not good to use a lot of adverbs. I was told that cutting them out (which I am working on) will lead to stronger writing. How do you know when you're overusing adverbs?

The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?

One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?
 

BotByte

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Adverbs are tricky. You'll see a lot of new writers trying to use adverbs and totally miss their meanings. I swear a kid a week ago was talking about having sexual relations with bombs.

Try to not use them, but to tell you, I had to actually google adverbs. (I'm not good with the words that make up grammer, I just know grammer)

Adverbs should be used in actions scenes to give detail, but then not used in descriptions. You want to create imagery, not detail in you writing.


"Said" to a reader is almost a "dead" word like "And, A, The". The reader doesn't see it, but knows it is there.

You can say:
"Said with enthusiasm"
"Said Impatiently"
"Said softly"

Try to write down some tags that you read. I started to do this and look them over when I got into the important parts of dialogue. I've got a whole 70 spiral filled with them.

You can tag as:
Snapped
Insisted
Rebuked

but make sure you use them as the character is saying. If the word doesn't mean that the character spoke, remove it and put a "Said - -" in place.


btw: We all start to worry about what we put it. I thought I was using too many "I"s in one of my 1st person stories. In a good way, I learned not to use "I"s but then again, I relearned it.

Small edit:

Don't use tags as often as you would like. I would say about 25% of the time and 20% of that with Said before or after it.
 
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Devil Ledbetter

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Tags other than said (and "asked" where appropriate) become a crutch. Instead of writing good dialogue where tone is conveyed by the character's word choice and actions, the writer has the tags and adverbs do the heavy lifting.

It's a weak writing habit that sticking with "said" will force you to break. Then you can use an alternate tag on those rare occasions when you need one.
 
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SRHowen

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I've been reading that's it not good to use a lot of adverbs. I was told that cutting them out (which I am working on) will lead to stronger writing. How do you know when you're overusing adverbs?

Overuse of anything is bad and can lead to weak writing. An adverb is a defining word for verbs, it ads to a verb, if you are using an adverb for every verb in a sentence, I'd say that's too many.

The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?

Said is an invisible sign post to the reader who said what, the reader doesn't see it. When you use shouted, accused, growled, etc., it is no longer invisible and pulls the reader out of the story.

The other part of that is those tags can be a crutch. Your prose should tell the reader the character is angry not the dialog tag, he shouted. The reader should get anger from show, not from being told what to feel--so this is why non standard tags can be weak writing.


One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?

See above, the reader doesn't see said, you as an author do, again to the reader it is a read over sign post that shows who is speaking and you never want to confuse the reader. How many times have you read a passage and had to back up over lines of dialog to figure out who was speaking, kinda pulls you out of the story.

:)
 

dangerousbill

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I've been reading that's it not good to use a lot of adverbs. I was told that cutting them out (which I am working on) will lead to stronger writing. How do you know when you're overusing adverbs?

Remove the adverb and see how it reads. It often sounds better.

When that's not enough, try using a different verb.

He walked quickly.
becomes
He darted.
He ran.
He strode. etc


The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?

This is mostly a matter of style than a 'rule'. 'Said' is supposed to be an invisible word, in that it carries no meaning and passes notice. But sometimes the dialogue isn't sufficiently expressive by itself.

'That man has a gun,' he said.
'That man has a gun,' he shouted.
'That man has a gun,' he whispered.


One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?

Remove the dialogue tags. Then replace only the ones that are needed to avoid ambiguity, when it's not completely clear who's speaking. Again, it's largely a style thing.

'Someone's in the house,' he said.

'Did you bring your gun?'

'No.'

'Then we'd better stay clear until we can call for help.'

'Screw that,' he said. 'I'm going in.'
 

RobJ

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I've been reading that's it not good to use a lot of adverbs. I was told that cutting them out (which I am working on) will lead to stronger writing. How do you know when you're overusing adverbs?
Cutting poorly used adverbs may improve the writing. Cutting well used ones won't. Over-use of adverbs is a common problem with novice writers and should be avoided. If you're not sure whether you're over-using them, try as an exercise first removing them all, then see which ones really add something useful and deserve to go back in. Compare your own adverb usage with what you see in published fiction. Usual caveat, don't judge what's out there by a single author: read widely.

The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?
No, it's not true. Much of the time 'said' is all you need, it's a good default if you need to tag at all. There are times when another word is appropriate. You're not constrained as to what that other word is, but only use alternatives if you really need to. Again, read widely to get a feel for how it's done by different authors. Some use them more than others.

One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?
If you think you're using too many, try removing them all and add them back only where necessary to avoid confusion. If you have two people talking, it's often obvious who's speaking once you've established who starts. In a longer exchange, adding one here or there can help the reader to avoid losing track of who's speaking. Also, using an appropriate action may help to avoid confusion. Again, read widely and see how dialogue is often handled.
 

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Cutting poorly used adverbs may improve the writing. Cutting well used ones won't. Over-use of adverbs is a common problem with novice writers and should be avoided. If you're not sure whether you're over-using them, try as an exercise first removing them all, then see which ones really add something useful and deserve to go back in. Compare your own adverb usage with what you see in published fiction. Usual caveat, don't judge what's out there by a single author: read widely.


No, it's not true. Much of the time 'said' is all you need, it's a good default if you need to tag at all. There are times when another word is appropriate. You're not constrained as to what that other word is, but only use alternatives if you really need to. Again, read widely to get a feel for how it's done by different authors. Some use them more than others.


If you think you're using too many, try removing them all and add them back only where necessary to avoid confusion. If you have two people talking, it's often obvious who's speaking once you've established who starts. In a longer exchange, adding one here or there can help the reader to avoid losing track of who's speaking. Also, using an appropriate action may help to avoid confusion. Again, read widely and see how dialogue is often handled.

This. Rob's right that you need to recognise the good ones and not be afraid of keeping using them if/when you need to.

On said. Action speaks louder than words. 'He said' can easily be exchanged in places for conversational term-taking without the tags, and using action in between to keep the reader focussed:

"About that...." Handshakes were meant to bridge gaps but Jay took great pleasure in knowing how ice-cold his grip was on the other man's hand. "We're adults now, right?"
 
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Jehhillenberg

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I've been reading that's it not good to use a lot of adverbs. I was told that cutting them out (which I am working on) will lead to stronger writing. How do you know when you're overusing adverbs?

The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?

One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?

When you get to the beta point, those readers will definitely let you know when adverbs are overused. Reading your work aloud will help too. Are the adverbs used really necessary if a reader can tell the mood and tone from your characters and the situation created? That's what I try to keep in mind.

Tags other than said (and "asked" where appropriate) become a crutch. Instead of writing good dialogue where tone is conveyed by the character's word choice and actions, the writer has the tags and adverbs do the heavy lifting.

It's a weak writing habit that sticking with "said" will force you to break. Then you can use an alternate tag on those rare occasions when you need one.

I agree with pretty much everything stated in the thread already and the above briefly sums up what I feel.

When your characters are fleshed out well enough for readers (and even yourself) to recognize who's speaking -- by diction, action, personality, ect. -- then even the "saids/says" will disappear. In a scene where more than two characters are speaking, using the "saids/says" are to be expected anyway.

Another thing I wanna throw out there is beats. Beats are very important. A character has their own little paragraph with their dialogue and action and/or thought. I feel like pacing plays a role in this as well but the way you craft a scene and the characters will take care of the dialogue tags. I found this interesting.
 

Dr.Gonzo

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We are by nature a critical bunch of bastards. We'd rip any selling book to bits in share your work. What you've heard is correct, but they are just to guide you, not absolute rules. Go to a library and pick any book from the shelf. You will be able to see multiple instances where these 'rules' have been ignored. Like SR said, and I agree with her, everything in moderation.
 

BradCarsten

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The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?

One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?

If something is drawing attention to your writing, it needs to be addressed. So if you feel that you are using said too often you probably are.
Unfortunately changing said to bellowed or whatever isn't going to solve the problem.

Here is an example of some wonderful dialogue (that will drop you to the bottom of the slush pile). Oh and there are too many saids.

"I'm going to kill you," Jack said.
"oh *explicit*, what did I do now?" Peter said.
"You burnt the toast again," Jack said.
"Yes," Peter said. "But in my defence a hot Latina just moved in next door and-"
"where, where?" Jack said.
changing the saids to something else isn't going to help. (I don't think much can help it actually :))

"I'm going to kill you," Jack bellowed.
"oh *explicit*, what did I do now?" Peter groaned.
"You burnt the toast again," Jack hollered
"Yes," Peter sung. "But in my defence a hot Latina just moved in next door and-"
"where, where?" Jack choked.
If you throw in a couple of beats, you can get rid of most of the saids. (you can get rid of most of the saids anyway. )


Jack threw a piece of toast onto the counter. "I'm going to kill you."
"oh *explicit*, what did I do now?" Peter lowered his thirty-inch binoculars to give his friend a flat look. This wasn’t the first time he had been accused of something since moving-in three days ago. First it was the dog loosing all its hair. Then the toilet-seat vanishing overnight. How had that happened?
Jack snatched up the toast and waved it under Peter’s nose. "It’s burnt. You burnt the toast. And now you will burn in hell"
"Yes," Peter said. "But in my defence a hot Latina just moved in next door and-"
"where, where?" Jack snatched the binoculars....
There we go, one said in the whole exchange. Um this will still drop you to the bottom of the slush pile, but I'm sure you get the point. [FONT=&quot]:)

[/FONT]You dont always have to use said- sometimes other words are more appropriate, but you shouldn't be trolling through the thesaurus either.
 

jaksen

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Read the advice. Adjust it to your own writing style. I don't like the word 'rules,' but guidelines suits me better.

One way to check for overuse of adverbs is to do a 'Find' search on your ms., or chapter, or whatever you're working on. Search for 'ly' and then you can skim through your writing, checking to see if each 'ly' adverb is useful and needed. (There are non-ly adverbs, of course, but this method will help you cull some of the 'ly' ones.)

'Said' is a great word. In most instances it's all you need and you can even drop some of them. But sometimes a different tag is useful. I like whispered, myself, and have been known to use grunted or grumbled as I have some very disagreeable characters and I like to emphasize how crotchety they are (sometimes.)

But whatever you do, never use 'sigh' as a dialogue tag! (This is just a guideline, but a very useful one.)
 
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Architectus

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It's not just a matter of removing adverbs, but rewriting the sentence to create stronger images. There is almost always a better way to write the sentence without the adverb.

She felt him staring angrily into her soul.

She glanced at him, sensing that he peered into her soul. He wanted to break her, rip her to pieces, and leave her dead.

"He wanted to break her, ripe her to pieces, and leave her dead," says so much more than, "staring angrily."
 

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"He wanted to break her, ripe her to pieces, and leave her dead," says so much more than, "staring angrily."
It says a lot more, but it may simply be not what you want. Anything can be rewritten. That doesn't automatically make it 'better'.

I think in this example you'd have to go back to how someone stares 'angrily' and start again from there.
 

Shika Senbei

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A I swear a kid a week ago was talking about having sexual relations with bombs.

There's a manga about that. Sure, the bombs look and act like cute girls (and are mostly lesbian), but still....

In any case, if you want to avoid using "said" in dialogue, you can try using beats instead.
 

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When I have multiple characters, it's pretty much a necessity to use "said" (et al) to know who is speaking. If there is a long discussion between them, I will occasionally use different tags to show growing emotions.

Also, if I have two characters speaking for an extended period (which is rare, but it does happen), then I throw in a tag or narrative break once in a while so the reader doesn't get confused.

Keep it simple. If you think you're using "said" too much, go find all instances and read each without the word. If you can get rid of it, do so. If not, keep it.
 

BethS

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My two rules about adverbs:

1) Don't use a verb/adverb combo when a stronger verb is available.

2) Do use adverbs that enhance the meaning or mood of the sentence.

As to dialogue tags, mix it up some. And by that I mean, use 'said' sometimes, but you can also sparingly use tags like replied, whispered, asked, etc.

In addition, use action to tag your dialogue. Instead of this:

"I'm afraid I ate Fluffy for dinner," he said. "It was that or leftovers from Taco Emporium, and, well, you know how I feel about tacos."

Do this:

"I'm afraid I ate Fluffy for dinner." He patted his mouth delicately with a linen napkin. "It was that or leftovers from Taco Emporium, and, well, you know how I feel about tacos."
 

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There is nothing wrong with using adverbs. The problem is, some writers overuse them--every single verb is modified by an adverb, which becomes monotonous. The same with "said".

For this reason, I find it's a good idea to break up sentences with tags and physical action descriptions.

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VictoriaWrites

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"I'm afraid I ate Fluffy for dinner." He patted his mouth delicately with a linen napkin. "It was that or leftovers from Taco Emporium, and, well, you know how I feel about tacos."

Just wanted to add that this has to be the best example ever. :D
 

BethS

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Victoria,

Thanks. <g>
 

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1) Don't use a verb/adverb combo when a stronger verb is available.

Or when the adverb is superfluous, as in:

"I'm afraid I ate Fluffy for dinner." He patted his mouth delicately with a linen napkin.

How else do you "pat your mouth with a linen napkin"?

I see things like "He dashed rapidly up the stairs" and "She screamed loudly at the man" all the time in student writing, and a disturbing amount of the time in creative manuscripts I critique.

caw
 

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I've been reading that's it not good to use a lot of adverbs. I was told that cutting them out (which I am working on) will lead to stronger writing. How do you know when you're overusing adverbs?

This is a common generalization, yes, and one brought up very often here (not sure why). Adverbs aren't "bad" they're a component of language and communication. The idea behind the sentiment conveyed to you is this: adverbs are often used by inexperienced writers instead of using strong verbs that convey the same idea, or sometimes an even clearer idea, to begin with. Adverbs used as a crutch that weakens images is generally bad technique.

For instance (not going to be a great example):

1.) The man ran quickly, arms waving wildly, to catch the bus.
2.) The man tore across the sidewalk, arms flailing, to catch the bus.

2 uses fewer words and not only conveys the same thing, but the actions conveyed are stronger. "Tore" and "flailing" bring the moment to life, whereas "ran" and "waving" are weaker verbs, and the writing tries to cover it up by crutching the words with adverbs.


The second question I had was about dialogue tags. I heard that one shouldn't use words other than said as dialouge tags. Is that true or not? If so, what is wrong with using words beside said when a character says something?

One last thing: I feel like I am using 'said' too much in my current work. How can I cut back on that without people getting confused with who is talking?
There are also a ton of threads on this subject, but no, essentially what you've been told is not true.

The idea behind this supposed-rule is that, again, colorful tags used in an amateur way often cover up weaknesses in a scene. It's basically the show/tell thing, but specifically for dialogue. "Said" is "invisible," meaning you use it when needed for clarifying who is speaking and use nothing when it is not necessary (the start of a new paragraph or manner of speaking are often enough to show who is talking). Of course "screamed" or "whispered" or "asked" fall under the same umbrella. They're words the reader mostly breezes past because the dialogue carries itself--they're clarifying without being intrusive on the action of the scene.

Basically, the tags shouldn't explain the emotions of the scene, the scene should be making the reader feel those emotions. Tags or other "showing" devices aren't a good substitute for strong writing. If your scene is strong, you can use tags or "showing" for whatever purpose you deem integral.

If you search, like I said, though, you'll find a ton of these threads and much useful advice.
 
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I wouldn't take the word delicately out. It adds to the voice.

Not every adverb should be stripped. Some add, some take away. Writer's choice.
 

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I wouldn't take the word delicately out. It adds to the voice.

Not every adverb should be stripped. Some add, some take away. Writer's choice.

Beth's example was by no means the worst of such usage I've seen, and the overall snippet was sharp and funny. But the adverb wasn't what made it sharp or funny, and for me, as reader, I'd prefer it be omitted. It isn't a matter of "writer's choice". That excuse could be used to justify all manner of bad writing practices.

But my point remains: 50% of the adverbial use I see in manuscripts is superfluous. At least 50% of the other 50% would be better replaced with a stronger verb or more vivid narrative, without much effort.That's the problem I see with the use of adverbs in manuscripts I've critiqued.

caw
 

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Probably been said elsewhere, but here goes again.

verb + adverb can frequently be replaced by a stronger more evocative verb.

Tends to result in over all stronger writing, but the general result is still up to the writer.
 
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