Can A Suspense/Thriller Be Driven By Character Instead Of Story?

grizzletoad1 · Nov 11, 2011

You all probably know me. I'm the guy who's been whineing about his ms, The Railroad Man, on this site for the last 18 months. I'm happy to reply that you're just about rid of me. I'm giving up the even remote hope that my story is even readable, let alone publishable. It sucks, and so do I as a writer so there's no point to continue this folly any more. Except for this one last question. What I have written seems to be a character driven suspense thriller. The action in it simply doesn't carry it. My characters are described as too passive and weak. But they have depth and substance. I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a character driven suspense thriller that emphisizes the study of the character in how he/she deals with the central conflict of the story, instead of the central conflict defining the story. Am I making any sense here? I'd like to know, because this is the last thread I will ever start on this site, or any of you will ever see me on again. I'd like to thank you all for putting up with me for the last 18 months. It's just not working for me anymore. I've quit.

John

heyjude · Nov 11, 2011

John, I'm awfully sorry you're so frustrated. I can't offer more advice than what I've already said (take a break!), but I'd hate to see you go. :Hug2:

The answer to your question is yes, MTS is increasingly more character-driven. It's very common now.

grizzletoad1 · Nov 11, 2011

It is? So why is everyone saying I have to rip all my character out in favor of getting into the story rights away? The deep seated pain my character is feeling, both emotional and physical, is central to the story, and everyone wants me to jettison it. Look at my SYW post and see waht they liked. Then see what my reaction was. They want action. I want character AND action. But character HAS to come first. I'm just so frustrated I am actually thinking about just erasing everything I've wrote from my computer and jump drives, just so I have absolutely no reason to ever go back to it again.

mccardey · Nov 11, 2011

grizzletoad1 said:
I am actually thinking about just erasing everything I've wrote from my computer .

I think you should put the whole thing on a new thumbdrive before you do that

I do feel your pain, though.

Chris P · Nov 11, 2011

I sure hope they can. My novel only has the thriller part in the last 25%, and the rest is more literary and about the people. There is a greater subplot throughout (the "message" of the story) and the action in the last quarter is an extreme example of other opinions expressed by other characters earlier in the book. Seen this way the entire book stands as a unit.

Perhaps your book more literary than MTS. That being said, I'm having a devil of a time getting agents and publishers to consider mine. Readers expecting thriller are turned off by the first 75%, and people expecting literary are surprised by the last 25%.

My advice to anybody asking this or similar questions is to learn what you can from what people say, but make your book work for you. Understand that the more you deviate from certain expectations the harder it will be to get the book to sell. Perhaps there are ways to satisfy both your vision and the expectations of the people you meet here (and in agencies and publishing companies).

Best of luck, and I've been there. I don't have a success story (yet

) on this issue, but as discouraged as I get I just can't give up.

heyjude · Nov 11, 2011

grizzletoad1 said:
But character HAS to come first.

Why?

Seriously. It doesn't. Give them just enough that they care about the character--a very little bit goes a long way--amidst the action. There must be conflict in the first page in MTS. Not necessarily guns-blazing conflict, but something. The bar for conflict is high in our genre. Character, the kind that you'd like to have, may have to wait to be developed.

Having said that, there is some literary MTS, and it's gaining in popularity (keep the faith, Chris P!). That focuses more on the writing/characterization.

thothguard51 · Nov 11, 2011

My opinion.

In any genre, a good story needs good characters and good characters create a good story...

While others feel story trumps all, to me, its the characters that make the story good...

As to what makes a good story, conflict and how the characters deal with it...

Pepperman · Nov 11, 2011

When Thomas Edison was interviewed by a young reporter who boldly asked Mr. Edison if he felt like a failure and if he thought he should just give up by now. Perplexed, Edison replied, "Young man, why would I feel like a failure? And why would I ever give up? I now know definitively over 9,000 ways that an electric light bulb will not work. Success is almost in my grasp." And shortly after that, and over 10,000 attempts, Edison invented the light bulb.

So it is with writing. Perhaps not 10,000 attempts. But remember Edison had no one to guide him

DocBrown · Nov 11, 2011

GT1, perhaps HJ has a point. People who read are generally more savvy than your average bear.

You don't have to beat your reader over the head with your MC's pain. Less is often more, let the subtext carry the reader at least in the beginning and morsel out the cause of the MC's pain as you go. Have the action of the story slap at the pain at every turn so the reader finds out more whilst the tension builds both for the story as well as for what the reader seeks to know about the MC.

Or maybe that's just a bunch of words. I don't know...

Al Stevens · Nov 11, 2011

To me a story is more interesting when the characters are well-defined. The action is secondary. I like some action, but if I don't know the characters, I have no one with whom to relate. It's like watching a newsreel.

If your MC gets shot at and he ducks behind a rock to reload, that's no big deal. Happens all the time. Bond. James Bond. But if he pisses his pants when the bullet whizzes by, grabs his rosary, and has his life flash in front of him, there is dimension to the character, I know something about him, and there is a reason to care whether he gets shot or not.

grizzletoad1 · Nov 11, 2011

Wow! You guys are great! Thanks. I'm felling much better now, and I'm goig back to work on my ms. Maybe some here won't like it, but I have to think there will be some that will. I have to stop trying to please everyone and just do my thing. If it works, great! If not, at least I can say I gave it my all.

Ari Meermans · Nov 11, 2011

Oh, absolutely you have to stop trying to please "everyone", whoever that is. THE RAILROAD MAN is your story and you're the only one who can write it.

Bufty · Nov 12, 2011

Yes.

Give your good lady room to be critical, and you focus on whatever you consider important and you want the reader to latch onto in your story because at present it isn't clear that Mike's personal struggles are the core issue.

Good luck.

grizzletoad1 said:
Wow! You guys are great! Thanks. I'm felling much better now, and I'm goig back to work on my ms. Maybe some here won't like it, but I have to think there will be some that will. I have to stop trying to please everyone and just do my thing. If it works, great! If not, at least I can say I gave it my all.

heyjude · Nov 12, 2011

grizzletoad1 said:
Wow! You guys are great! Thanks. I'm felling much better now, and I'm goig back to work on my ms. Maybe some here won't like it, but I have to think there will be some that will. I have to stop trying to please everyone and just do my thing. If it works, great! If not, at least I can say I gave it my all.

Excellent.

And don't forget to give yourself a break now and then. We all need it.

Al Stevens · Nov 12, 2011

heyjude said:
And don't forget to give yourself a break now and then. We all need it.

Is that why I'm tired all the time?

Seriously, John, frustration is routine. Things seldom go according to plan in and out of your story. Just don't do anything drastic like burn your work or get out the AK-47 or anything.

heyjude · Nov 12, 2011

Al Stevens said:
Is that why I'm tired all the time?

Either that or the lack of caffeine. Give up the cocoa and get some strong coffee, Al! :e2coffee:

cbenoi1 · Nov 12, 2011

I'm reading Lawrence Block's Telling Lies For Fun and Profit. There is a chapter on how to begin a novel and one of the technique he learned from an agent who checked out his first Evan Tanner spy stories. Each and every of the novel in the series begins with Tanner in some sort of dire situation, in a turquish prison, suspended in a bamboo cage, or in a train behind the Iron Curtan with the polizei asking him for papers. Then the next chapter or two recap how he got into that situation and then move on.

> So why is everyone saying I have to rip all my character
> out in favor of getting into the story rights away?

Are you writing for Fun or Profit? We assume the latter because that's what agents will also expect. And agents, like book shoppers, have a finite amount of time to gauge a novel and if the story doesn't take some shape in the first few pages, odds are they won't read more.

There is no hard-and-fast rule in litterature. Except when you are writing novels for profit - you sell or you don't.

-cb

grizzletoad1 · Nov 12, 2011

No AK 47's here! Just hit one of those very low spots in the road. Thing about that is, there's usually a rise just around the next bend.

grizzletoad1 · Nov 12, 2011

Fixed! And my word count is down to 83,645! I dumped over a thousand more words. This excersize had many benefits that I think have now produced a stronger ms, and stronger main character, and restored my enthusiasm for the project. Thanks. Now all I need is an agent!

Al Stevens · Nov 12, 2011

grizzletoad1 said:
Fixed! And my word count is down to 83,645! I dumped over a thousand more words. This excersize had many benefits that I think have now produced a stronger ms, and stronger main character, and restored my enthusiasm for the project. Thanks. Now all I need is an agent!

Congrats on paring it down.

Perhaps you should have a few beta readers hit on your new version before you shop it around.

Bufty · Nov 13, 2011

Eggle · Nov 13, 2011

Hi grizzletoad, I enjoy character driven suspense thrillers, the millennium series are an example...

Eggle · Nov 13, 2011

@grizzletoad, the author of "The Help" was rejected by 60 agents and each time she saw it as an opportunity to make it even better. I think all writers face a lot of rejection, this is how we refine our craft. There are many ways to tell the same story, you just have to find the way that works, and it involves trial and error.

gothicangel · Nov 13, 2011

Recognising there is a problem with a MS, is a sign that you are developing as a writer. So, Yah!!!

Good on you for going back, I abandoned a psychological thriller back in March, I just couldn't make it work. Thinking back, now I know I made the correct decision. I started writing Roman historical thrillers, and since then I've completed two drafts of book one and just started book two. The difference is amazing. The second one is most definitely more literary [both are very character driven.]

For the record, I love literary thrillers. I'm currently reading Ken Follet's The Pillars of the Earth. For literary thrillers I would recommend David Peace and PD James.

There is definitely a market for them.

ToddWBush · Nov 13, 2011

I disagree with people who think that character isn't king in a good Thriller/Suspense. I don't read the latest Vince Flynn or Michael Connelly or Robert Crais or even someone who isn't as big like a Brain Haig simply because the plot is so action packed or, pardon the pun, suspenseful. I read it because I care about Mitch Rapp, Harry Bosch, Elvis and Joe, and even Sean Drummond. I want to know more about them, their lives and what makes them tick. The characters drive the story and make me want to read more.

Can A Suspense/Thriller Be Driven By Character Instead Of Story?

Plodding around into things.

Making my own sunshine

Plodding around into things.

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

Making my own sunshine

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Pepperman

Hopes to one day write for food.

Plodding around into things.

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter

Where have the last ten years gone?

Making my own sunshine

Making my own sunshine

Plodding around into things.

Plodding around into things.

Where have the last ten years gone?

Write or Wrong

Write or Wrong

Toughen up.