How long does a book needs to be?

Matiasve · Nov 4, 2011

Still having trouble navigating through the forum and I'm sure this question will have been answered and asked many times before ( so sorry for the re-re-...-repost)

My question:

How long does a good book need to be. I know a good story can be told in 6000 words but the same story might be better using 200000 words , 300000 words however might ruin the story ( as an example)

What is your optimal amount of words/pages for a good book?

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The reason I ask/asked this is because I cant seem to start writing and I thought it we be easier If I had a goal infront of my eyes regarding the amount of pages/words.

Whenever I start writing , I always tend to stop after a while. I have the idea in my head and usually I dont have troubles writing it down. I just stop writing for whatever reason.

SRHowen · Nov 4, 2011

80 to 90k is considered a novel length book. As to good, the content tells you that not the length of the story.

scarletpeaches · Nov 4, 2011

Have you ever read any books?

Seriously, this is one of those "How long is a piece of string?" questions.

Amos Gunner · Nov 4, 2011

Great Gatsby is a little over 50,000 words.

War and Peace is nearly 590,000.

So there you go.

thothguard51 · Nov 4, 2011

The book starts where the story starts and ends when the story ends. Everything in between should progress the story towards the end.

rainsmom · Nov 4, 2011

Sigh. For something a little more helpful... Different genres have different preferred word counts. You can get published if you venture outside the recommendations, but your job is that much harder. Here's a list:

http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2008/03/on-word-counts-and-novel-length.html

Penelope Finn · Nov 4, 2011

Rainsmom, that blog post is extremely helpful. Thank you for linking it.

Phaeal · Nov 4, 2011

The goal that will help you most is not a specific word count but to finish a book. The way you'll get to that goal is to write on a schedule that only death and/or zombie apocalypse can interrupt. I would suggest writing a minimum of 250 words a day, every day, and working your way up to 500-1000 words.

LadyDae · Nov 4, 2011

80k to 90k is novel length like many have said, but your novel can be as long or as short as you want ti. There are exceptions, but you're likely a new writer so keep to the conventional lengths more or less.

Personally, I think if a story needs 300k words, make it into three or four novels or a series. Don't write one book that long.

SRHowen · Nov 4, 2011

The question though is how many words make a "good" book. While we can define how many words the average is or the defined length of genres etc., I don't think word count can define if a book is good or bad--unless we are in jr high and being forced to read a book for a book report (and we do not like reading) then a good book might be based on length.

Otherwise, you use however many words are needed to tell the story, then you edit to add words or take words away to match the submission guidelines. NO publisher is going to care about word count if the words themselves suck.

Good words and word use = a good story

DancingMaenid · Nov 4, 2011

I don't know if a story, assuming it's told by a good writer who's comfortable with both long and short stories, is going to be that much better or worse based on its length. I think it's just different. Also, it's sort of a matter of "you don't miss what you've never had." It may be possible that a writer can take a great short story and turn it into a great novel, but if they don't do that, then the story is simply what it is: a great short story.

But of course, not everyone feels comfortable writing all lengths of stories, and I think a lot of us will sometimes imagine stories in such a way that they may be best-suited to a particular length or style. So in that regard, it's up to you to decide how you feel you can best tell a story.

Pepperman · Nov 4, 2011

How Long

Thornton Wilder won the Pulitzer Prize for The Bridge of San Luis Rey. It is 117 pages long.

rainsmom · Nov 4, 2011

Pepperman said:
Thornton Wilder won the Pulitzer Prize for The Bridge of San Luis Rey. It is 117 pages long.

True, but:

* It was in 1928.
* It was not his first novel.

So if you're not Thornton Wilder and you ARE working on getting your first novel published, then you need to focus on what agents and publishers say they want NOW. What they published even 5 years ago -- much less 10, 20 or 50 years ago -- is irrelevant if they say they want something different now.

Lady MacBeth · Nov 4, 2011

rainsmom said:
Sigh. For something a little more helpful... Different genres have different preferred word counts. You can get published if you venture outside the recommendations, but your job is that much harder. Here's a list:

http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2008/03/on-word-counts-and-novel-length.html

Thanks for this!

SRHowen · Nov 4, 2011

Matiasve said:
----------------------

The reason I ask/asked this is because I cant seem to start writing and I thought it we be easier If I had a goal infront of my eyes regarding the amount of pages/words.

Whenever I start writing , I always tend to stop after a while. I have the idea in my head and usually I dont have troubles writing it down. I just stop writing for whatever reason.

First, the best way to start and finish a novel is to write it. I don't know if you are trying to free flow without an outline, or if you are an outline writer, but either way, set a daily word goal and don't leave your keyboard until you have reached that goal. 250 words courier new is one page, double space between lines, 12pt font. One page, start with that one page per day goal, and don't worry about the long term goal of words in a project. Tell the story until you reach the end, words can be added or taken away after you get to the finish line.

NEXT: This is not to be mean, not at all, lord knows I am the queen of typos, but if you make it a habit to do all you can to improve your grammar, punctuation etc., then what you write will read better and make the story better.

There is a free online course you can take on grammar and punctuation, OWL FREE GRAMMAR CLASS and pay attention to what you read, things like needs and troubles with the added s should stick out as incorrect in some uses, use spell check and grammar check, but don't depend on the grammar check, let it be a guide to point out glaring errors. Words like cant and dont need an apostrophe--can't don't--and so on.

When the story flows and reads like the picture in your head, then you will have more interest in the story, the story will be what you want it to be. Improving the mechanics will improve the "good" of the story.

stray · Nov 6, 2011

A book should be like a woman's dress: long enough to cover the subject and short enough to be interesting.

RobJ · Nov 6, 2011

Matiasve said:
The reason I ask/asked this is because I cant seem to start writing and I thought it we be easier If I had a goal infront of my eyes regarding the amount of pages/words.

Whenever I start writing , I always tend to stop after a while. I have the idea in my head and usually I dont have troubles writing it down. I just stop writing for whatever reason.

If you can't start writing, it doesn't really matter whether your target is 30,000 words or 300,000 words. Set yourself a smaller goal, something that can be achieved in a shorter time, and reward yourself when you reach it. It could be a chapter, a scene, or just a daily/weekly word count. And do yourself a favour, don't worry about quality for now. Just get the words down. You can come back to it and improve it later.

NeuroFizz · Nov 6, 2011

Also keep in mind that there is some "slop" in the system. Publishers can take a 105K novel and a 80K novel and have them both printed on about the same number of pages by altering fonts and page print characteristics.

The 80 - 90K length is a target for many genres. What others are saying, though, is each story will have its own length, and if one has to fluff the story to hit that target, the story may well be weakened. Also, overly long first novels may be risky, depending on genre. The big however...if one writes a damn good story, there is a good chance it will attract a publisher who will be willing to work with the author if there are any length issues.

Matiasve · Nov 6, 2011

SRHowen said:
First, the best way to start and finish a novel is to write it. I don't know if you are trying to free flow without an outline, or if you are an outline writer, but either way, set a daily word goal and don't leave your keyboard until you have reached that goal. 250 words courier new is one page, double space between lines, 12pt font. One page, start with that one page per day goal, and don't worry about the long term goal of words in a project. Tell the story until you reach the end, words can be added or taken away after you get to the finish line.

NEXT: This is not to be mean, not at all, lord knows I am the queen of typos, but if you make it a habit to do all you can to improve your grammar, punctuation etc., then what you write will read better and make the story better.

There is a free online course you can take on grammar and punctuation, OWL FREE GRAMMAR CLASS and pay attention to what you read, things like needs and troubles with the added s should stick out as incorrect in some uses, use spell check and grammar check, but don't depend on the grammar check, let it be a guide to point out glaring errors. Words like cant and dont need an apostrophe--can't don't--and so on.

When the story flows and reads like the picture in your head, then you will have more interest in the story, the story will be what you want it to be. Improving the mechanics will improve the "good" of the story.

Thanks for the advice, especially about the courier 12 thing!

The grammar course... well I write in Dutch so I doubt it would help me

Enadious · Nov 6, 2011

A novel for today's market should be around 85K to 100K in length.

SarahHobson · Jan 11, 2012

My first is 130,000 words. Does this mean I need to trim it down before I submit?

KellyAssauer · Jan 11, 2012

Matiasve said:
My question:

How long does a good book need to be.

A good book should start it's story on the first page
and end on the last page.

quicklime · Jan 11, 2012

SarahHobson said:
My first is 130,000 words. Does this mean I need to trim it down before I submit?

not neccessarily. 130,000 will be a somewhat harder sell but if it rocks, it will work.....how much harder will depend on genre and of course on how much an agent already sees as trim-worthy in the query and sample pages. So 130,000 is not a complete deal-breaker....

but the chances are very, very good you CAN cut a good 10% without even trying, and 20% with moderate effort. Not always, but it is very common that books, especially first books, are in need of a diet.

J.W. · Jan 11, 2012

rainsmom said:
Sigh. For something a little more helpful... Different genres have different preferred word counts. You can get published if you venture outside the recommendations, but your job is that much harder. Here's a list:

http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2008/03/on-word-counts-and-novel-length.html

That post was from 2006. I don't know if it's reliable anymore. Word counts based on genre are trendy. Don't worry about trends. Write a fantastic query and make sure your MS is just as good.

Cheers and good luck

shaldna · Jan 11, 2012

Different genres have different word counts - for instance, fantasy tends to run much longer than chick lit.

Generally though 90-100k is the average for a novel.

If you write a specific genre then you should check out the word count for that genre - most publishers have specific guidelines in terms of word count too.

How long does a book needs to be?

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