bit/bitten Past Participle

Fallen · Oct 29, 2011

Just a quickie...

Do you know if there's a difference between British Eng and Ameican Eng usage on the past participle bitten?

E.g., with Bri Eng, I'd use 'The dog had bitten the cat'

Would/could Ame Eng bounce between both bit and bitten?

'The dog had bit the cat' / 'the dog had bitten the cat'

mirandashell · Oct 29, 2011

Hmm... I would say it as 'the dog bit the cat' and 'the dog had bitten the cat.'

Which is two different tenses. I don't know what they are called cos I was one of the unfortunate generations that didn't learn grammar at school.

Ferret · Oct 29, 2011

Fallen said:
Just a quickie...

Do you know if there's a difference between British Eng and Ameican Eng usage on the past participle bitten?

E.g., with Bri Eng, I'd use 'The dog had bitten the cat'

Would/could Ame Eng bounce between both bit and bitten?

'The dog had bit the cat' / 'the dog had bitten the cat'

I'm an American, and I'd say, "The dog had bitten the cat." Some Americans use bit as both the past participle and the simple past form, but at least according to the grammar books I've seen, this is nonstandard.

Added: Without context, I don't know if I'd use the simple past or the past perfect in the example sentence. However, assuming that the past perfect is the correct tense, I'd use bitten and not bit. Otherwise, I'd say, "The dog bit the cat."

mirandashell said:
Hmm... I would say it as 'the dog bit the cat' and 'the dog had bitten the cat.'

Which is two different tenses. I don't know what they are called cos I was one of the unfortunate generations that didn't learn grammar at school.

Bit is the simple past. Had bitten is the past perfect, also called the pluperfect by some.

mirandashell · Oct 29, 2011

Ah, thank you!

I was of the generation that the educators of the 70s decided to experiment on by not teaching us anything useful.

Fallen · Oct 29, 2011

Thank you, both of you.

@Ferret. That's what I'm after: whether Americans use both 'bit' and 'bitten' in past participle. If you're telling me that 'had bit' is nonstandard, then perfect. I'm looking for the standard. Context doesn't really matter here. It's just one sentence pulled out the air to show both 'bit' and 'bitten' being used as past participle. I think American Eng uses a few past simples (bit) as past participles (had bit), but I can't hazard a guess as to what's standard and what isn't. Eesh.

And thank you.

backslashbaby · Oct 29, 2011

We have a lot of strange ones, imho, especially with legal terms. But most of the time we do use 'bitten' or similar.

Y'all's 'got' throws us off here

We say 'gotten' except in specific colloquial phrases.

Smiling Ted · Oct 29, 2011

Fallen said:
Thank you, both of you.

@Ferret. That's what I'm after: whether Americans use both 'bit' and 'bitten' in past participle. If you're telling me that 'had bit' is nonstandard, then perfect. I'm looking for the standard. Context doesn't really matter here. It's just one sentence pulled out the air to show both 'bit' and 'bitten' being used as past participle. I think American Eng uses a few past simples (bit) as past participles (had bit), but I can't hazard a guess as to what's standard and what isn't. Eesh.

And thank you.

The correct/standard usage is the same in the US as in the UK. However, we do have older regional dialects that might use the construction "he had bit" - you'd probably find it in Mark Twain's works set on the Mississippi.

bonitakale · Oct 31, 2011

backslashbaby said:
We have a lot of strange ones, imho, especially with legal terms. But most of the time we do use 'bitten' or similar.

Y'all's 'got' throws us off here We say 'gotten' except in specific colloquial phrases.

If you read a book by an English writer, using an American character, you may find that "gotten" is more complicated than you thought it was. They get it wrong a lot. We only use it as a past participle (I think, but maybe my brain is fogging.)

I'd just gotten to the shop when the clerk put the "Closed" sign up.

But, As soon as I got to the shop, the clerk put the "Closed" sign up.

After he'd gotten over the flu, his parents got him a new scooter.

Fallen · Oct 31, 2011

What's up wiv our got?

So, I get the milk and
So, I got the milk and (simple past)
So, I'd got the milk and (past part)
So, I'd gotten the milk and (American past part)

I hate language

backslashbaby · Oct 31, 2011

Yep to you two

One that comes to mind as a rule-breaker in the US is: "I've got to tell you about this guy I met!" That's colloquial, though, unless I'm mistaken and it's some sort of odd grammar rule I never heard.

Torgo · Oct 31, 2011

backslashbaby said:
Yep to you two

One that comes to mind as a rule-breaker in the US is: "I've got to tell you about this guy I met!" That's colloquial, though, unless I'm mistaken and it's some sort of odd grammar rule I never heard.

I think that's a special sense of the verb, not a colloquialism - it's expressing something like 'I have got a compulsion to tell you...' And in turn that use of 'I have got' to describe something you possess - 'I have got a nice hat' - is understandable if it's derived from something like 'I have acquired'.

backslashbaby · Oct 31, 2011

Ah, yes! I've got a new CD. We definitely wouldn't say gotten there. Acquired makes it make sense. Thank you.

AnWulf · Nov 1, 2011

gotten

backslashbaby said:
Ah, yes! I've got a new CD. We definitely wouldn't say gotten there. Acquired makes it make sense. Thank you.

I'm guilty of saying "I've got it" when I should say "I have it" or "I got it" but I never write it. I write either "I have it" or "I got it" ... depending on context. I never say "I've got" when I mean "I've gotten."

I like strong verbs ... if a very has both a weak and a strong form, I will usually use the strong form.

bit/bitten Past Participle

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

mirandashell

Ferret

Dook!

mirandashell

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

backslashbaby

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Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

bonitakale

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

backslashbaby

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Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

backslashbaby

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AnWulf

bit/bitten Past Participle

Stood at the coalface

Dook!

Stood at the coalface

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Ah-HA!

Stood at the coalface

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Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

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