Education or just trying to get into film making?

While there is certainly something to be said for learning the theory of things, in my experience the best credential to have in Hollywood is an impressive reel of your work.

gambit924 said:

Hi,
I am writing to you guys again because I need to know what you think. Is it better to go to school and study film making, or should one try to study on their own and start film making? I am thinking of majoring in film making at Eastern Oregon University I want to know if you think it's worth the money. I want to do this, even if I don't just write, if I find myself as a film crew rather than an actor or a writer. The goal would be to become a writer in the future. Does it look better to have a degree in film making?

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What it might give you is a way to build up contacts and opportunities. Not sure how things work over there but in the UK, a lot of film / theatre colleges develop a relationship with, for instance, the BBC or external, professional companies and offer things like guest talks, day visits etc, and your college noticeboard can be a good way to find out about things like competitions, film festivals etc that can be a good springboard for someone wanting to break into the industry. Coupled to that, you don't know what your tutors might be involved with - they may well have contacts as well as advice for you. One of the big expenses in film making, if you want to make a showreel, is equipment, but if you're doing college projects, you'll have that, and somewhere to start in putting together your portfolio. Some colleges will even allow students to borrow or rent equipment for projects.

Also, it will put you in touch with likeminded people, so if you wanted to, you could always see how easy it would be to put together a company of your own, get other people with the skills you need to put together a film, write a script and see if you can get fellow students to act it, etc. So in a way you could do both - there is nothing to stop you putting your work out there whilst you are studying.

But I do agree that where theory is necessary, a more practical based course would probably do you more good if you want to get into the industry.

I wholeheartedly recommend school.

For one, it gives you the educational credentials that you need to be taken seriously when you have no production credits. After you've got some work under your belt, your showreel and CV will be what will get you your next gig. The grassroots approach can work, if you have a killer demo, but an education is never a bad idea. I've met very few artists in the studio system who did not take some form of film school.

One thing to consider is that your degree lets you travel abroad to work (until you have experience). Studios just want to make sure you can do the work they require from you, but even if you have a stunning showreel, they can't hire you if you don't meet the border requirements (there are visas where this is not a concern, but not all studios, especially smaller ones, can provide that type of relocation). This might not be relevant to everyone, but came up once or twice in my early career. Film is a transient lifestyle, where contract to contract is the norm, so expect to travel (which is one of the perks if you ask me!)

Lastly, at school you meet others that are on track to enter the industry and with whom you will form valuable and lasting relationships. These people will fan out through the world and become the basis of your initial professional network.

I speak from the POV of a visual artist though, so the experience of actors, writers, or other crew may vary considerably from my own. I should also add that I attended a well known and respected film school, so my particular experiences may be a reflection of that environment.

There are two reasons to go to film school. The first - and most useful - is because it's 'connected'. Unfortunately there are only a handful of schools that are really tuned into the system in a serious way. USC, NYU,UCLA, UT Austin to name the top that come to mind. By 'connected' I mean they have teachers that WORK in the industry, a strong curriculum and a track record for turning out well trained and creative students. Not saying you can't go to another schoot to succeed - but a degree in engineering from MIT is going to carry more weight than a degree in engineering from... some other place.

The SECOND reason to go - is to network. I'm not just talking about with the teachers - I'm talking about with the OTHER students. Going to school forces you to meet deadlines. When you're trying to get together with folks and make something happen - there's nothing like the threat of a deadline and a passing grade so that you don't waste money to make it happen. This is similar to the dynamic in the real world. You learn with your schoolmates. You are forced to work on their projects, and they are forced to work on yours. It's a good way to come away with a basline of connections to continue working after you graduate.

In both examples, you are also given ACCESS to gear that you might not normally have. The better the school - the better the gear.

A lot of good information has already been said. I'll just add that your education is what you make of it.

For some people, they education themselves in school. Others pass on school and educate themselves by working. It has been my experiences that within both those groups, the majority of people don't take their education seriously... or as seriously as they could. They don't succeed. And it's not because they did, or did not go to school.

Success isn't achieved by your schooling or experience. It is achieved by how far you are willing to put yourself out on the line. It's dedication, determination, self awareness, etc, etc, etc.

That said, you need to determine what is right for your circumstances. Schooling? Or practical experience? In either case, you need to put yourself in the best possible position for success. Determine your long-range goals and set short-term goals accordingly.

Let's say, for example, that film school is best for your circumstances. Is film school in Oregon best? Or would it be best to go somewhere else?

Like I said, self-evaluate and determine what it is you want. Then do your research. Talk to schools. Shadow some classes. Talk to professors and students (don't listen to a word advisors or other admin folks say... speak to those that work directly in the classrooms). Then make choices based on which school is going to position you best for your career goals.

And you can do the same thing if you want to work your way into the business as well.

Complete, total, gigantic, flaming waste of time and money. If you are going to get into filmmaking, you will need the kind of personality that lets you first get into people's faces. You need to prove you can survive Los Angeles and work like a dog for no money just like everyone else who came before you. Think tucking yourself away in school will prove anything to anybody? Nope. "Making contacts"? That just means you hope to meet someone who has the kind of manic drive it takes to succeed and you'll be able to send your scripts to them ten years later when they've made it and you're still trying to pay off your student loans.

Want to be a writer? First learn to be a waiter. Want to actually see your material on screen? You're better off writing novels.

L
UCLA MFA in screenwriting, 2002

kullervo said:

Complete, total, gigantic, flaming waste of time and money.

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Maybe. I know a bunch of Tisch School grads who achieved rapid success in Hollywood, thanks to their talent and the connections they made.

One moral of this story: A top school -- Tisch, Yale, UCLA, USC -- can make a difference. Anything less? Dunno.

gambit924 - do you like making films right now? Have you ever picked up a camera and made a short video with your friends? In high school did you put together silly youtube videos and dork around with special effects? Did you write any scripts or play with sound or editing or anything to do with movies at all?

The film industry is brutally competitive at all levels. It's a horrible place to work and if you really want to break into that kind of job you have to forgo a lot of things people take for granted like regular hours, decent pay, steady work, not having your hopes and dreams crushed every single day.

That's not to say that folks don't find fulfillment in the industry and it's a huge one so there are loads of places for people to slot into. Still, it's a grimy, dirty business early on and the people I know who have anything to do with it tend to have more horror stories than fun things to say about the work.

Study something productive at a trade school like welding or automobile repair. Get a regular job with good wages and decent hours and then slog away at scripts in your off time. You can then get out of school with minimal debt, a future career and the opportunity to have a day job you'll appreciate more and more as the rejection letters come in.

I'm not being facetious when I say that rejection is the norm for dealing with the film industry head-on.

kullervo said:

Complete, total, gigantic, flaming waste of time and money. If you are going to get into filmmaking, you will need the kind of personality that lets you first get into people's faces. You need to prove you can survive Los Angeles and work like a dog for no money just like everyone else who came before you. Think tucking yourself away in school will prove anything to anybody? Nope. "Making contacts"? That just means you hope to meet someone who has the kind of manic drive it takes to succeed and you'll be able to send your scripts to them ten years later when they've made it and you're still trying to pay off your student loans.

Want to be a writer? First learn to be a waiter. Want to actually see your material on screen? You're better off writing novels.

L
UCLA MFA in screenwriting, 2002

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Quoting this because you might as well print it out and look at it every day until you either scream in rage and move to LA/NY and take a non-paying internship so you can suck your way up the ladder or snap out of the idea of film school leading to film work and pick a profession that won't destroy your ideals.


That's all pretty negative but fits with the experiences of the few Hollywood folk I know personally. BUT WAIT! Before you cut your wrists, there is another way! Welcome to the digital revolution my friend. You can make movies with hardly any budget, distribute them yourself and basically kick the Hollywood system to the curb until you have a body of work that will let you get an industry job without having to pay your dues as an intern. Film festivals allow you to get your work seen by industry people so if you do a good enough job there, you may eventually build up a reputation that will let you work on "real" movies.

This still requires a ton of work and not necessarily film school. That will help a bit but you can learn a ton from movies through online courses, books and watching hours and hours of good and bad films to see what works and see what doesn't. Then you have to go and make your films yourself with whatever cameras and people you can cobble together. See how things take off.

Good luck to you. Having more education certainly isn't a bad thing but I think all of the folks warning against spending money on a no-name film school are giving you sound advice. You may learn how films go together well enough to pass some classes but it's not going to be the stepping stone into the industry that you hope for. Even if you go to one of the big name schools there aren't any guarantees there either.

Sorry to be so grim about this.

BDSEmpire said:

gambit924 - do you like making films right now? Have you ever picked up a camera and made a short video with your friends? In high school did you put together silly youtube videos and dork around with special effects? Did you write any scripts or play with sound or editing or anything to do with movies at all?

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I'd like to piggyback on this and strongly suggest that you should do the following right now (if you haven't already):

1) Watch El Mariachi, Desperado, and Once Upon a Time in Mexico in order of release.
2) Watch them again with the director commentary on.
3) Read Rebel Without a Crew by Robert Rodriguez.

There are a ton of films (low and high budget) that have director commentary on the DVD. Many are worthless (IMO). But Rodriguez loves to talk about what it took for him to succeed. He's very cool that way, and he's not a jerk about it.
http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Rodriguez/e/B001IZV88Y/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1319895765&sr=8-1

The top schools are great for making connections. A degree is useful if you want to teach about making films.

Media jobs are tough to get, and just having that paper isn't going to help (I have a paper - it's useless).

The other thing a school can do is get you access to equipment to start building a reel. That reel is far more important than the paper.

Diversify the classes you take and work to get a back-up set of skills in college that you can use to fund your writing/creative work, it WILL be necessary to be a wage slave after school.

Also, you can't get a good grounding in film scholarship and understanding stuff like history of the form and theory unless you have a good teacher, you really cheat yourself by skipping school.

Here's a bit from my screenwriting website that speaks to the idea of playing it safe and going to school (which I did) vs. just jumping in and trying to make it. Note that the drive needed to succeed almost never allows the would-be creative person to wait out the educational process:


I'd like to start with something a little unusual. It's the best metaphor for getting into Hollywood I've ever come across, and it's from the brilliant science fiction novel _The Demolished Man_, by Alfred Bester.

In the novel, there is a division within the police force composed of psychics. They can detect guilt in the minds of criminals, and as a result, the police capture the guilty party 100% of the time. Becoming a member of this specialized division is highly lucrative and much sought-after. Their headquarters are always filled with eager applicants, who line up at a wide desk to fill out forms. However, one of the dozen receptionists is psychic, and broadcasts a thought message: "If you can hear me, go through the door on your left." Only those who can hear the message and go through the door will ever join. The rest are left outside, forever busy with their paperwork.

gambit924 said:

Hi,
I am writing to you guys again because I need to know what you think. Is it better to go to school and study film making, or should one try to study on their own and start film making? I am thinking of majoring in film making at Eastern Oregon University I want to know if you think it's worth the money. I want to do this, even if I don't just write, if I find myself as a film crew rather than an actor or a writer. The goal would be to become a writer in the future. Does it look better to have a degree in film making?

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I'm gonna tell you what your Papa tells you.

Get an MBA, law degree or be a doctor in case you don't make it. Something to fall back on.

Filmmake on the weekends.

You can always go to film school later.

gambit924 said:

Hi,
I am writing to you guys again because I need to know what you think. Is it better to go to school and study film making, or should one try to study on their own and start film making? I am thinking of majoring in film making at Eastern Oregon University I want to know if you think it's worth the money. I want to do this, even if I don't just write, if I find myself as a film crew rather than an actor or a writer. The goal would be to become a writer in the future. Does it look better to have a degree in film making?

Click to expand...

Hi Gambit. You don't have to have a degree in filmmaking to be taken seriously or to make films. It really depends on what kind of person you are, and I guess your financial backing. Rodriguez just used what little equipment he had and just started making films, entering in festivals, connecting, selling whatever to get his stuff. ( I admire him and love his work, as well as Tarantino who sold a spec script while working in a video store!) In this industry, connections are almost everything. Who you know, what you know, where to go.

I went to a film school, but transferred because of cost of art school and some personal issues. NYC and UCLA were some of my dream ones anyway. I'm currently majoring in Broadcasting/Mass Communication at my current university (I'd so go back to vocational school). I preferably want to write and a dream would be directing. I don't necessarily want the Hollywood thing, I'm all for Indie.

You have to be a go-getter anyway in this field, but if you're the type who wants to get out there and just make shorts films and such, work on crew, that's totally fine. Experience is very important, and you can also get that in school. Not necessarily a degree in film, but experience is what's really important. From what I know and heard.


ETA: Yes, having a diversity of skills is best. They can come in handy for other roads and venues. Education is what you want to fall back on. A back-up plan is very important. My film professor sends out a newsletter to us all about different opportunities, contests, trips, etc.

I want to repeat: The entertainment industry is Brutal.

I don't want to scare you from making films. Go! Go make films! A decent digital camera and decent editing software will run you much less than decent art college. Get together with people and make films. Go find people who make student and indie films and volunteer to do what needs to be done. Just bring enthusiasm, leave the ego at home and you could learn so much. Go play, go experiment, go get to work. The great thing about the era we live in, is that film (well, video) has never been cheaper to make and easier to distribute to an audience. There really isn't much to loose from making films outside of the cost of a camera and time. And think of how much you could gain?

Investing in college for film though? That's a very expensive proposition that I would only be recommend if it's no financial burden (present or future) . I have a degree in essentially comic books and obviously something worked out for me because I now work in TV Animation. But I know plenty of talented people who just didn't get lucky. I have a hard time encouraging anyone to get big loans for art college.

The industry is scary for good reason. I do not recommend an entertainment career for those who aren't 100% dedicated to the work because you will be fighting, at every level, someone who lives and breathes for the chance of that exact job or one above it. This is not an industry for someone who just wants a job.

There are easier jobs that pay better and will still allow you to work on films or writing. You could still become big by doing it your own way. You can share your voice and talents with the world. But to be solely qualified for entertainment jobs? It's gonna be the retail and food service industry unless you make it in your entertainment career of choice.

I have two questions: what do you want to do in film? To be competitive, you have to specialize and really hone those skills. If you don't know specifically what you want to do and why, slow down and do the work first. Play around and figure out precisely what you like. It's not that you can't change your mind or sideways jump (I did when I got into animation) but if it's just the general idea that it'd be fun, you haven't gotten your hands dirty enough to invest the money into college.

My second question is why Oregon? I would not be where I am if I hadn't moved to LA. I think those that went to school nearby are at a serious advantage over my friends scattered throughout the country, even those that moved here later. The former simply have more local contacts.

If you want to make films- you will do yourself a huge favor by going to somewhere they make films. Lots of films. You'll have access to communities for support and networking. There will be classes and workshops and lectures and it will be easier to surround yourself with people who also want to make films. Most importantly with rare exception- no one from an entertainment mecca is going to look outside when there's a long line of people local willing to do the job.

A degree in the entertainment business means nothing that a list of credits doesn't. What matters is networking, your reel and having a resume that shows you have constantly produced work.

So get out there and produce work. You can always decide to go to a fancy art college later.