Buying a laptop - principles.

Caitlin Black · Oct 24, 2011

Okay, so there's every chance I'll be attending University next year, on campus. I'm a sloppy (and slow) handwriter, so for purposes of getting down notes from lectures, I want a laptop (my current one is pretty well dead - it's still technically usable, but could die completely at any point).

Further, if I'm going to be on campus for hours at a time, between classes I'd like to be able to write fiction and/or assignments and/or do Internety things (such as slack off on AW :tongue

).

So I definitely want a laptop. Further, I have a paying job right now, so I can actually afford one! Shock horror! My hours will be picking up soon (Christmas is coming, and I'm working in retail). So I'm definitely going to buy a new laptop soon, while I can.

But I've hit a roadblock on deciding which one to get... I don't want a gaming machine, so it doesn't have to be super fancy or anything (I can game on my desktop computer). All I really need it for is writing, Internet, and *possibly* music and watching DVDs.

So... Do I get a cheapo laptop that does what I need it to do? Or do I get a slightly better, slightly more expensive one that can do a few extra things that should give the laptop potentially a longer life?

At this point, screen size and battery life are my 2 biggest requirements. However, I don't want the biggest one out there, for weight issues.

So... What do you folks think? Do you have any recommendations? I'm going to buy from a store, not online, for purposes of extended warranties and the fact that I just don't use credit cards online.

And advice on expense vs. longevity, maybe?

Oh, and something that has a decent fan in it - I know from my old laptop that having it on my legs for hours at a time can get REALLY hot!

I'm totally lost in this decision...

I'd probably go out and buy the cheapest one out there (hey, it'll still do word processing and Internet!) but for the fact that my hours at work are about to go into overdrive, so I *can* afford a better machine...

Help!

(Thanks in advance.)

Caitlin Black · Oct 24, 2011

And I should mention, I don't want a netbook. They're too small for my comfort zone of watching the screen and typing... And if I ever do watch DVDs on my laptop, a netbook is just kind of useless for size of image...

kuwisdelu · Oct 24, 2011

Cliff Face said:
Okay, so there's every chance I'll be attending University next year, on campus. I'm a sloppy (and slow) handwriter, so for purposes of getting down notes from lectures, I want a laptop (my current one is pretty well dead - it's still technically usable, but could die completely at any point).

Further, if I'm going to be on campus for hours at a time, between classes I'd like to be able to write fiction and/or assignments and/or do Internety things (such as slack off on AW ).

So I definitely want a laptop. Further, I have a paying job right now, so I can actually afford one! Shock horror! My hours will be picking up soon (Christmas is coming, and I'm working in retail). So I'm definitely going to buy a new laptop soon, while I can.

But I've hit a roadblock on deciding which one to get... I don't want a gaming machine, so it doesn't have to be super fancy or anything (I can game on my desktop computer). All I really need it for is writing, Internet, and *possibly* music and watching DVDs.

So... Do I get a cheapo laptop that does what I need it to do?

Not if you can afford better.

Or do I get a slightly better, slightly more expensive one that can do a few extra things that should give the laptop potentially a longer life?

Yes, you do.

At this point, screen size and battery life are my 2 biggest requirements. However, I don't want the biggest one out there, for weight issues.

So... What do you folks think? Do you have any recommendations? I'm going to buy from a store, not online, for purposes of extended warranties and the fact that I just don't use credit cards online.

And advice on expense vs. longevity, maybe?

Oh, and something that has a decent fan in it - I know from my old laptop that having it on my legs for hours at a time can get REALLY hot!

I'm totally lost in this decision...

I'd probably go out and buy the cheapest one out there (hey, it'll still do word processing and Internet!) but for the fact that my hours at work are about to go into overdrive, so I *can* afford a better machine...

Help!

(Thanks in advance.)

This is for school, so you don't want it crapping out on you when you're working on that big paper the night before it's due. You want something that's well-supported, reliable, robust, and that should hopefully last you through your years there.

If you can afford it, do not get a consumer-class notebook. Anything < $500 in a notebook is basically going to be shittily put together.

If you can afford it, look at business-class laptops. These will focus on being well-constructed, reliable, have a decent amount of longevity, and should have good battery life. They're not gaming laptops, but they will be much better made than their consumer-class counterparts, and should last longer, making it worth the sometimes hefty price differential. On the Apple side, you can't go wrong with the MacBook Air or the MacBook Pro. On the Windows side, I'd probably go for a Lenovo Thinkpad. Asus's new Zenbook line looks pretty sweet too, but like the MacBook Air, doesn't have an optical drive for DVD's if that's important to you. The SSD that comes standard in the Air and the Zenbook will make them quite snappy comparable to even much faster computers. I like Apple's notebooks, but if you're a Windows person, Thinkpads are generally well-respected.

Caitlin Black · Oct 24, 2011

Actually, I'd love to get an Apple (MacBook Air or Pro, don't know what the difference is really) but I'm hesitant due to the fact that they cost so much more... Like, I remember seeing one for about $2300!

I've never used anything made by Apple, but I know enough about them to know that I'd probably like them. And if I'm correct in thinking... Macs will support all the same file types as Windows laptops, just using different programs often, right?

Thanks for the advice.

Now... No optical drive for DVDs? That doesn't mean "No ability to play DVDs" right? Just that it's not the top-end for DVDs? Right?

(And to be honest, I was aiming at $500 for a laptop, because I don't know exactly how much money I can afford to spend... But with my hours picking up, it could be a fair bit at my disposal, I guess.)

kuwisdelu · Oct 24, 2011

Cliff Face said:
Actually, I'd love to get an Apple (MacBook Air or Pro, don't know what the difference is really) but I'm hesitant due to the fact that they cost so much more... Like, I remember seeing one for about $2300!

The MacBook Air starts at $999 for 11" and $1299 for 13". The MacBook Pro 13" starts at $1199. You'd probably be fine with any of the base models. One thing to keep in mind if you do go that way is that the Air has no optical drive (nowhere to insert DVDs) but has an SSD (very snappy for day-to-day stuff) and the 13" model has a higher resolution than the 13" MBP (can fit more stuff on the screen). The 13" MBP has a faster processor but a slower HDD, but it does have a DVD drive. Also the MBP is upgradeable (you can install your own HDD and memory later); the MBA is not.

ETA: Also check out the refurbished Mac store. They're all thoroughly tested, so don't worry about that, and you can sometimes get good deals. In particular, check out the refurb MacBook Pros, as more and cheaper early-2011 models should start showing up now as the line was just refreshed with a slight spec bump.

I've never used anything made by Apple, but I know enough about them to know that I'd probably like them. And if I'm correct in thinking... Macs will support all the same file types as Windows laptops, just using different programs often, right?

Yep. There's really very little that's incompatible anymore, and you can always run Windows on a Mac, too. I have virtual machines of Windows 7, Windows 8, and Ubuntu on mine.

Thanks for the advice.

Now... No optical drive for DVDs? That doesn't mean "No ability to play DVDs" right? Just that it's not the top-end for DVDs? Right?

There's no CD/DVD slot. You can connect a USB DVD drive, but there isn't one on the laptop.

(And to be honest, I was aiming at $500 for a laptop, because I don't know exactly how much money I can afford to spend... But with my hours picking up, it could be a fair bit at my disposal, I guess.)

For big electronics purchases, I generally go by "spend as much as you can afford (but not more!)" You generally really do get what you pay for. Lenovo generally offers good sales/deals Thinkpads if you're tight. Dell, Sony, et al., all also have business-class laptops, with some options that are probably more affordable. But in general, if you can afford it, I would stay aware from consumer-class notebooks. It's almost always worth it.

thorjansen · Oct 24, 2011

Dunno if price increases have hit the sellers yet, but you might want to pick up that laptop sooner rather than later. The world's biggest hard drive manufacturer's main plant got trashed by a storm, and it's going to cause hard drive shortages for a while. Meaning, prices for them will rise. Sellers may also increase the cost of laptops and desktops as well.

Caitlin Black · Oct 24, 2011

Okay. Thanks.

So a corollary question: How much does an Apple USB DVD drive cost? :tongue

But yeah, I'm not sure if $1200 or thereabouts is really in my budget... I'll have to wait and see.

It's hard to tell how much I can afford, though. At the moment I have about $900 (or I will tomorrow) but some of that will be going to living expenses. I also want a buffer of about $200-300 for any unforeseen expenses.

So I could probably afford $500 tomorrow, if push came to shove, but not $1200 or so...

However, my hours are picking up at work. Further however, the contract runs out on January 31st... So how much can I save between now and then, if I don't know exactly how many hours I'll be getting?

It's kind of hard to say...

Oh, one more question, while I've got you here: would you say any new Mac product will be business-class?

Caitlin Black · Oct 24, 2011

thorjansen said:
Dunno if price increases have hit the sellers yet, but you might want to pick up that laptop sooner rather than later. The world's biggest hard drive manufacturer's main plant got trashed by a storm, and it's going to cause hard drive shortages for a while. Meaning, prices for them will rise. Sellers may also increase the cost of laptops and desktops as well.

Oh, okay... That sucks.

If I wanted to get an expensive laptop, I would have to wait a while. A cheaper one (against Kuwi's advice) could be bought pretty much now.

Another thing to think about, I suppose...

kuwisdelu · Oct 24, 2011

By the way, don't forget to check with the university about any special deals they have, and factor in education discounts.

Cliff Face said:
So a corollary question: How much does an Apple USB DVD drive cost?

$79.

Oh, one more question, while I've got you here: would you say any new Mac product will be business-class?

Yes. In the words of Steve Jobs: "We don't know how to build a sub-$500 computer that isn't a piece of junk." ...so they don't.

Cliff Face said:
Oh, okay... That sucks.

If I wanted to get an expensive laptop, I would have to wait a while. A cheaper one (against Kuwi's advice) could be bought pretty much now.

Another thing to think about, I suppose...

IMHO, I'm not sure about the rest, particularly since many of the other OEM's prices fluctuate a lot, what with their constant "sales" and "deals," but I strongly doubt Apple prices will be affected.

ETA: I doubt this will have too much of an effect on laptop prices in general. HDD's aren't exactly one of the most expensive components that goes into them. My guess is your savings will outpace whatever price rise there may be.

Caitlin Black · Oct 24, 2011

Okay, thanks.

I got a little sidetracked for the last hour - helping mum's friend paint (well, I held the ladder so he didn't fall to a gruesome death).

Right... You've given me a lot to process. One thing that's standing out to me is that I want this laptop to last for my degree (and hopefully beyond) and for that I guess I need to spend extra.

There aren't a whole lot of stores here that sell Apple computers, but I might have to shop around if I can. I know of one that definitely has them.

And I do want a Mac... But then there's the expense.

*goes round and round in circles*

I'm probably sounding cheap, but the only truth in that is that I love a good bargain.

The most I've ever spent on a single purchase was $1350, and that was reduced down from about $1700. (Really nice drum kit.)

So I guess I'll have to get used to actually having money before I can justify a large expense like a MacBook Air or somesuch.

But yes - I shall check with the Uni and see if there are any deals they can swing.

I know that I can get a student edition of Photo Shop Pro (or something like that - I forget the exact name) for heaps cheap if I'm enrolled...

Thanks!

kuwisdelu · Oct 25, 2011

Well, it's not absolutely necessary to spend as much to get a computer that will last, but IMO it's a gamble to get a cheap, consumer notebook and hope it lasts as long, and the potential headache if it doesn't just isn't worth it. Paying more up front for quality construction tends to pay off in the long run, IME. And I mean that for any notebook, not any single OEM.

If you do go for an Apple computer, you can wait up to a year later to get AppleCare (the extended warranty), and it doesn't matter whether you order online or buy at a store. And you're covered for at least a year no matter what. You do have more fine-grain control over the upgrades you can purchase online. The education discounts are, unfortunately, not terribly significant (only about $50-$100 off or so), but definitely make sure you use them.

I can tell you my MacBook from 2007 still functions great. I only upgraded because the newer multitouch trackpads are ridiculously awesome and I'm in a computationally-intensive field. There is great non-Apple hardware out there too, of course, but – all features considered – you won't really won't find it for too much cheaper.

But in general, I'd definitely say aim for a business-class laptop. If Lenovo, a Thinkpad rather than an IdeaPad. If Dell, a Latitude rather than an Inspiron. Etc.

Caitlin Black · Oct 25, 2011

Thanks.

Georgina · Oct 25, 2011

Two quick things about buying a Mac in Australia:

Apple has educational discounts. You typically save $150-ish Australian on a laptop. Your university should have a computer centre that can help you out, or take a look at this page on Apple's website.

Apple has stores in NSW, Victoria, Queensland and WA, but if you don't live near one, try David Jones, Myer, Dick Smith or JB Hi-Fi. There's probably an independent Mac store near you, too -- they tend to pop up around universities -- though I've found their customer service can be variable.

Cheers.

Deleted member 42 · Oct 25, 2011

Cliff buy a MacBook or MacBook Pro from Apple Australia's Education site, or your campus computer book store.

If you buy online with a one time use credit card you can also save by purchasing a refurbed laptop; it's been repaired, inspected and has the identical warranty that a "new" one has.

Caitlin Black · Oct 25, 2011

Okay, thanks, all things to keep in mind.

Do you think I'd have to wait until next year (when I'm officially enrolled) to be able to get the student discount?

Deleted member 42 · Oct 25, 2011

Cliff Face said:
Okay, thanks, all things to keep in mind.

Do you think I'd have to wait until next year (when I'm officially enrolled) to be able to get the student discount?

Are you taking any classes now? Apple's definition of "student" is awfully flexible. They sometime ask for a student I.D., but not very often.

Caitlin Black · Oct 25, 2011

Hmm... I technically am taking a class still. Of course, the last day of it is tomorrow, and I don't have a current Student ID.

So I guess I'll be waiting until late February or so when next year's classes start...

Unless I can claim the Student Discount as a Cashback sort of deal after paying for it early, then getting my Student ID card, then getting the cashback?

Or is that just wishful thinking?

I suppose if worse comes to worst, I'll just have to buy the laptop in the first week of classes next year, and take notes in pen and paper until I've bought it...

Deleted member 42 · Oct 25, 2011

Cliff Face said:
Or is that just wishful thinking?

That's wishful thinking.

Cliff Face said:
I suppose if worse comes to worst, I'll just have to buy the laptop in the first week of classes next year, and take notes in pen and paper until I've bought it...

Honestly, I'd wait as long as possible. Less money will buy more computer, the longer you wait.

Once you're admitted/registered for classes, you'll be fine.

Caitlin Black · Oct 25, 2011

Hmm. Okay.

Thanks!

(And I suppose this gives me plenty of time to save my money... Classes won't start until after my contract runs out at work, so I'll know exactly how much I can afford to spend.

)

thorjansen · Oct 25, 2011

You should also keep in mind what you want the computer to do. If you're just doing some word processing for writing, some Internet and even light graphics, then a mid-range system should work just fine. No need for a 56-core CPU and the latest high-end graphics card, unless you want to do gaming too. Even mid-range GPUs will handle games up to from a few years back.

But yes, stay away from the low-priced junk. These are just not built to last, and are the ultimate consumer replacement nightmare (but the manufacturers' and sellers' gravy trains).

I don't agree with the thought that waiting will buy you more computer for less. You could wait a year and say the exact same thing. If you wait a year, sure, new computers with more capability and whatnot will come out, and today's models will be obsolete and cheaper. The manufacturers will always find a way to create something new that you just gotta have, and at comparable if not slightly higher prices than last year's models. And software will keep expanding and driving the need for bigger iron. Thinking like that will keep you waiting till the cows come home, and you'll never get your laptop.

kuwisdelu · Oct 25, 2011

thorjansen said:
You should also keep in mind what you want the computer to do. If you're just doing some word processing for writing, some Internet and even light graphics, then a mid-range system should work just fine. No need for a 56-core CPU and the latest high-end graphics card, unless you want to do gaming too. Even mid-range GPUs will handle games up to from a few years back.

But yes, stay away from the low-priced junk. These are just not built to last, and are the ultimate consumer replacement nightmare (but the manufacturers' and sellers' gravy trains).

Yup. That's why I point to business laptops. No, they're not gaming laptops. Sometimes you might wonder why they're more expensive than a similarly-specced consumer laptop. Because they won't fall apart when you try to use it.

I don't agree with the thought that waiting will buy you more computer for less. You could wait a year and say the exact same thing. If you wait a year, sure, new computers with more capability and whatnot will come out, and today's models will be obsolete and cheaper. The manufacturers will always find a way to create something new that you just gotta have, and at comparable if not slightly higher prices than last year's models. And software will keep expanding and driving the need for bigger iron. Thinking like that will keep you waiting till the cows come home, and you'll never get your laptop.

That's true if you keep doing it obsessively and compulsively, but it doesn't sound like Cliffy needs a laptop just yet, he has a desktop, and will likely be able to afford an all-around better computer by then, better specced or not. If you need a computer, just suck it up and buy it. Yes, something newer and better will be out in a few months. That's always the case. But if you don't need it yet and can afford waiting a little longer — particularly if you'll have more money by then — it's generally worth it.

Caitlin Black · Oct 26, 2011

Well, I now have 3 extra shifts at work... Including 1 full day tomorrow.

It looks like I'll be able to save up for a good laptop pretty quickly, actually...

Though I like the idea of waiting until I have a Student ID card to get myself a discount. It's my inner bargain hunter coming out.

Deleted member 42 · Oct 26, 2011

Cliff Face said:
Though I like the idea of waiting until I have a Student ID card to get myself a discount. It's my inner bargain hunter coming out.

I really would wait; and there are student discounts for software as well.

And if you get a Mac, get yourself Garage Band; it's actually useful and fun.

kuwisdelu · Oct 26, 2011

Medievalist said:
And if you get a Mac, get yourself Garage Band; it's actually useful and fun.

I'm surprised you seem to have managed to forget that it comes with all of them.

Deleted member 42 · Oct 26, 2011

kuwisdelu said:
I'm surprised you seem to have managed to forget that it comes with all of them.

It depends on the bundle—Australia has very different software bundles than the U.S. and Garage Band has particular licensing issues because of the loops. Same thing with iMovie.

Buying a laptop - principles.

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