How accurate is this statement?

[Azure Skye]

I read/heard somewhere that "you shouldn't start writing unless you know how it's going to end".

What say you?

[Sage]

I like to know how it ends, tho I didn't for my NaNo novel until a few chapters in, & even then was surprised by some reveals.

I know, however, that lots of writers like to just let their characters show them how the novel should go, which would have to change the ending, I would think.

[Tish Davidson]

Writers should write. It may be helpful to know how things end, but even if you think you do, stories evolve and change as you write them, and the ending you write will probably be different from the one you envisioned when you started. Don't let not knowing the ending stop you from starting.

[clintl]

I would say it's nonsense, since I know a successful novelist who almost never knows how her novels are going to end when she starts them.

[September skies]

In nonfiction stories (newspaper) I may have a general idea of how I'll end the story but in fiction, even when I think I know how it will end, once I start it usually changes a bit.

[scarletpeaches]

I prefer not knowing. It's more fun that way; if you tie yourself down to a particular ending, you miss out on all the other roads your characters could travel.

[StoryG27]

I would love to know how it is going to end when I start writing...but my characters refuse to tell me, surprising me constantly through out the book. I'm just as shocked by some of my endings as my readers are. The characters honestly take on a life of their own and like Tish said, even if you think you know the end, you might still be surprised when you actually write it. Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with knowing the end (even if I never do) or at least having a general idea what the ending will be. Writing is a craft in which prefrence and style come into play in a big way. Just do what works for you.

[maestrowork]

I'm 50K into my WIP and I still don't know how it's going to end. It'll get there. It's the journey that counts, right?

[scarletpeaches]

Ooh ooh, can I be in it? Can I, Uncle Ray, can I? Huh? Huh?

[Sage]

Ooh ooh, can I be in it? Can I, Uncle Ray, can I? Huh? Huh?
Unique has spoiled you.

[StoryG27]

Ooh ooh, can I be in it? Can I, Uncle Ray, can I? Huh? Huh?
Uncle???? I thought he told us all to call him Daddy.

he, he...I'm just being rotten tonight...it's fun!

[scarletpeaches]

Stop trying to bring me down, man. I got my winner's cert this evening. :D

[scarletpeaches]

Uncle???? I thought he told us all to call him Daddy.

he, he...I'm just being rotten tonight...it's fun!

I'm sure there's a WHO'S THE DADDY!!! punchline in there somewhere but I'm too much of a lady to even refer to it.:kiss:

[Sage]

Stop trying to bring me down, man. I got my winner's cert this evening. :D

:wag: Go to your User CP for your rep point. Now can I tease you, huh, huh? :poke:

[scarletpeaches]

Oh, go on then. I'm in a happy happy joy joy mood.

I still want to be in Ray's WIP though.

Mmm...Ray...whip...sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet...

[Azure Skye]

Interesting. The first time I read that statement I thought, ok, I'll give it a try. The first draft I wrote by the seat of my pants. After reading it, it was painfully evident that I did too. Second draft, which hasn't been started yet, I decided to write a loose outline with a clear ending in mind. The few attempts I've made at the second draft have been somewhat hard as I keep wanting to stick with the outline. Ack! Ah well, I'm still learning.

[DamaNegra]

How about changing that phrase to: "you shouldn't start writing unless you know how it's going to start"

I never know how my WIPs are going to end, until they do. Having a vague idea often helps, but the ending changes as the story proceeds, so it's not really necessary.

[Azure Skye]

How about changing that phrase to: "you shouldn't start writing unless you know how it's going to start"

I never know how my WIPs are going to end, until they do. Having a vague idea often helps, but the ending changes as the story proceeds, so it's not really necessary.

I think I like that concept much better. Thanks. :)

[scribbler1382]

Even if you start out thinking you know how it ends, how likely is it that you'll end up there when you're done? In my experience, not very likely. Hell, even at the halfway point I'm a different writer than I was when I started, nevermind at the end.

[Perks]

Thanks Azura Skye! This thread has been very encouraging for me. The plot for my first novel came together in about five minutes one night (of course, just the major points, making the journey a reasonably confident blast.) And then nothing. Starts and stops and panic attacks because I had characters and a beginning and maybe a few scenes. But no idea what the story was "about" or where it was going. So, after some serious moping and self-doubt (and a little nudge from those inclined to nudge) I took a leap with an idea that is nearly entirely untethered. I'm on chapter three and still don't have much of a clue, bt am loving the writing part. Fingers-crossed, it'll amount to something.

It's great to know that it's legit to fly blind!

[Azure Skye]

Thanks Azura Skye! This thread has been very encouraging for me. The plot for my first novel came together in about five minutes one night (of course, just the major points, making the journey a reasonably confident blast.) And then nothing. Starts and stops and panic attacks because I had characters and a beginning and maybe a few scenes. But no idea what the story was "about" or where it was going. So, after some serious moping and self-doubt (and a little nudge from those inclined to nudge) I took a leap with an idea that is nearly entirely untethered. I'm on chapter three and still don't have much of a clue, bt am loving the writing part. Fingers-crossed, it'll amount to something.

It's great to know that it's legit to fly blind!

Good for you and good luck. Here's another nudge. :Hug2:

[maestrowork]

Girls... this ain't the house of love. Stay on topic!

;)

Back on topic, really... part of the fun of writing a novel is not knowing where it's going. :)

[jst5150]

I always know how my books start. Rarely how they end.

And I like that.

Like many, I see scenes in my head and write to them. However, most of the time, the scenes are in no particular order. I just know visually, in the walnut that is my brain, they are stunning and need life. They need a forum to be seen, heard, felt, or sounded (though I;m not ego-centered enough to believe they will change the world; just my own).

Eventually, those scenes move the characters toward some summation of the thing. With my latest effort, the ending happened as a result of writing something five chapters previous. That's when I went, "Booyah," and got my ending.

In closing, I've always felt that whatever parts you seek will come with time, diligence and effort. Some discipline, too. And also letting go and allowing imagination to run its course. A good night's sleep helps. So do seven to nine Guinness Stouts. Whatever makes the little hand swing around the clock.

[zarch]

I start with a character...once I've got a rockin' character in my head, I try to figure out wh--

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! PERKS! That eyes and teeth monster thing is freaking me out!!!!!

[maestrowork]

(Perk is really cute... I just wish she'd show her face more)

[Jo]

I think I cheat a bit when I write my novels... I always know roughly how they'll end because they have to end up at the beginning again (like the Wizard of Oz). As long as I have a beginning, the end is in sight. (It's the middle stuff that remains mostly unknown to me, which allows almost anything to unfold!)

Even so, my first novel ended up with three variants on the ending - happy, bittersweet and really sad. Choices, choices! :tongue

[James D. Macdonald]

I read/heard somewhere that "you shouldn't start writing unless you know how it's going to end".

What say you?

Only if it works that way for you.

Some people have to know how it ends. Some people can't write if they do know how it ends. Some have an idea where they want it to end, but aren't surprised (and don't worry about it) if they wind up somewhere else.

There isn't a right answer to that question.

[My-Immortal]

I usually have a rough idea how the book will end. My current WIP I actually imagined the ending scene very clearly early on and so I have it written down in my trusty notebook. (I write on the computer but love to take notes longhand). I also have some rough plot points written down but the story has been evolving as I write it (though I am fairly certain I will still use the end scene as is).

Take care all - and good luck with your writing endeavors. :)

[Garpy]

ScarletPeaches, what's a 'NaNo'?

And on the subject of endings...

My first published is a thriller, which I had to tightly plot. I mean you wouldn't believe how tightly plotted it is....bloody nightmare to get everything to fit. My second book (done and with agent) is something else entirely, a YA/ChikLit/SciFi thing....that was totally unplotted and really, really fun to write. But alas, now I've got to write another thriller to follow in the wake of my first thriller, so it's back to plotting really tightly again. And that is just hard work. Mind you....having done the plot, the writing is a doddle.

[Jamesaritchie]

I read/heard somewhere that "you shouldn't start writing unless you know how it's going to end".

What say you?

If I knew how it was going to end, why would I want to write it?

[loquax]

If I knew how it was going to end, why would I want to write it?Umm I think that applies to readers not writers...... mind you, people still read the Bible.

[scarletpeaches]

Yeah, that old 'he dies in the end but comes back to life' thing has been done to...well, death...

[Perks]

But alas, now I've got to write another thriller to follow in the wake of my first thriller, so it's back to plotting really tightly again.

Didja feel that Garpy? That was a bunch of us kicking you in the shins. ;)

[SusanR]

I only have the experience of being in the muddled middle of a first novel, so I hardly qualify as the voice of experience, but my novel's idea started with the end, so yes, I knew it before I started writing.

When the nugget of your whole story is a pair of skeletonized human remains, ya kinda gotta assume they died. The whole novel is about how, and why, and who, and why should I care about those two dead people?

I knew the beginning--the medical examiner finds the bones--and I knew the end--she discovers who they were--and I created a loose path of stepping-stones (scenes) to get from A to B. But within that initial structure, things keep changing along the way. The problems get bigger. The characters get richer. The details change. I sometimes feel I will never finish this d*mned thing because it grows ever more complex.

I think it grew this way because it is plot-driven. I can easily imagine writing a story, less dependent on a tight plot, and not knowing the end when I start. So I would say it depends on what kind of story you're writing.

Susie

[Jamesaritchie]

Umm I think that applies to readers not writers...... mind you, people still read the Bible.

It also applies to an awful bunch of writers. I know gobs of writers who don't want to know the ending before they write it, and who would lose all interest in the writing if they knew the ending in advance. Readers and writers aren't all that different.

I also often suspect that if the writer knows the ending in advance, so will the reader.

I know the ending of a story when I write the ending of a story, and that's as soon as I want to know it.

[maestrowork]

I think it grew this way because it is plot-driven. I can easily imagine writing a story, less dependent on a tight plot, and not knowing the end when I start. So I would say it depends on what kind of story you're writing.


Precisely.

And some stories have the ending spelled out already -- circular stories that go back to the beginning (e.g. LotR) or plot-driven stuff like mystery or the ending is inevitable (e.g. romance -- boy gets girl and HEA). Then there are linear stories that are best written without a map. It really depends on the story.

[scarletpeaches]

ScarletPeaches, what's a 'NaNo'?

It's short for National [even though it is now international, having spread across the world from the US originally] Novel Writing Month, which ends today. The challenge was to write 50,000 words in 30 days - which I managed :D. There's a discussion board, called I think NaNoWriMo, a sub-forum in the writing games and challenges forum.

[Jamesaritchie]

Precisely.

And some stories have the ending spelled out already -- circular stories that go back to the beginning (e.g. LotR) or plot-driven stuff like mystery or the ending is inevitable (e.g. romance -- boy gets girl and HEA). Then there are linear stories that are best written without a map. It really depends on the story.

I actually know more mystery writers, and plot-driven writers, who don't want to know the ending than any other kind of writer. Far more, in fact. Mystery writers who don't want to know the ending are extremely common.

What kind of story you're writing has nothing at all to do with it. All that matters is what kind of writer you are. Knowing the ending is no more necessary in a mystery than in any other kind of novel, and to my way of thinking, may well mean the ending is going to come as a surprise to no one.

If you know the ending of a mystery in advance, odds are everything you write is going to be pointing straight at the ending.

[fallenangelwriter]

Actually, i'm not sure I'd belive the new version either "don't start writing until you know how it starts."


I almost never know how my stories start. i just have to start writing t4hem, and whatever i write- that's the start.

(OTOH, i always know the end of the story before i put the first word on the page. not all the details, but the genereal picture. but i wouldn't say that's a requirement.)

[scarletpeaches]

Off the top of my head, Minette Walters is one mystery writer I can name who said she doesn't even know whodunnit when she's half way through the book. I've read most of her novels and can't see the join, you know, the 'page where she realised herself who the murderer was'. :)

[Julie Worth]

I'm usually a chapter or two from the end before I know how it's going to go, and even then, I usually have options.

[blacbird]

Sometimes I'm not sure how it ends even when I'm finished.

caw.

[Nateskate]

I'd say you can begin with a vague ending, "And they lived happily everafter"
He gets the girl, overcomes Sauron...etc.

But the details can come after you start writing. Sometimes during the writing you decide to change the ending.

[maestrowork]

What kind of story you're writing has nothing at all to do with it. All that matters is what kind of writer you are.

I'm not sure if I agree. I do think the "kind of story" is important. My first novel is a circular story, so I knew how it was going to end. Now, how the story would get there was another matter. The journey wasn't really defined; but the destination was.

Now, with my WIP -- a totally different kind of story -- I have no idea how it's going to end and who the story is going to unfold. It's totally driven by my characters and the events. I'm taking the organic approach totally.

I am still the same writer. But the two different stories require me to write them differently.

[blacbird]

What kind of story you're writing has nothing at all to do with it. All that matters is what kind of writer you are.

Direct from Mt. Sinai.

caw.

[jst5150]

There's an old axiom that applies here:

Content dictates design.

You don't write the ending until you've got some content created to fulfill some goals. Characters, scenes and situations usually fufill that bill.

Until you've got some marble to work with, you can't chisel the statue. Whether you start or end with the toes is arbitrary.

[Azure Skye]

Only if it works that way for you.

Some people have to know how it ends. Some people can't write if they do know how it ends. Some have an idea where they want it to end, but aren't surprised (and don't worry about it) if they wind up somewhere else.

There isn't a right answer to that question.

You're right; I agree. It's kind of annoying when people make statements and pass it off as gospel. That was tone I picked up when I first read the statement.

Thanks for all the replies everyone.:)

[Celia Cyanide]

I would say it's nonsense, since I know a successful novelist who almost never knows how her novels are going to end when she starts them.

Just because somebody tells you that doesn't mean it's true.

[blacbird]

Just because somebody tells you that doesn't mean it's true.

Doesn't mean it's false, either.

caw.