Getting to know the genre...But I want to WRITE it!

AlienGirl · Oct 17, 2011

The question is basically about wanting to write what you don't read, and wanting to write it well. It's a real phenomena, I'd know, because I have it. Not that I don't enjoy reading science fiction, which is what I want to write, I love all those old short story collections I used to read as a kid and I've read a few (not so current, from the 90s) books, which is what probably influences me to want to write it right now. But I don't feel like I'm up to date on things, yet don't want to splurge on books I'm not interested in just to get to know the genre. What I read for entertainment is very different, though the genres vary.

How do I know if 5 new books have come out already dealing with the same themes I do in the same way that I do, when the truth is, I don't really feel like reading 5 new books? Right now I have more ideas than I can handle and I also have stuff waiting I want to read that's not sci-fi.

I want to see my stories out there, so I'm wondering how important it is. Could the books I'm aching to write ever have a chance of getting published if the idea has been done already? And could my book still be an original, valuable addition to the genre, despite me not knowing what other autors have already written about? And if there's a blog or a guide to what's been done in sci-fi literature in the last few years, basically summing it up, I'd love to read that, too.

BySharonNelson · Oct 17, 2011

There are so many books in each genre there is no way to fully know if you aren't touching on some resemblance of another book. You don't really have to read the genre to write it but it does make it easier, especially when it comes to marketing. If you don't know the genre and what's popular and what's out there it's hard to know how to market your book. You can always spend time talking with people who read sci-fi and get betas who are familiar with the genre but it's hard to understand what they are talking about when they give you feedback if you don't at least have a basic understanding of your genre. IMHO I would say write your stories but if you intend to self pub then you need to explore the market before you publish and market.

lauralam · Oct 17, 2011

I'd say, start writing, but read in the genre. Sci fi is really broad, and Margaret Atwood is a lot different than, say, Peter F. Hamilton. It's good to know who you're like, from a marketing point of view. It's also good, once you find the sci fi you're "the most like" to see how they play with different ideas. For instance, I'm really interested in gender studies and gender relations, so I read a lot of sci fi and fantasy that deals with these issues and made note of what worked and what didn't.

But you don't have to sit and read and not write. Do both. Explore SFF, read what you normally read, read some classics, or some graphic novels, or whatever the hell you want. It's all stories and every book I've read has helped make me the writer I am today.

ChaosTitan · Oct 17, 2011

BySharonNelson said:
You don't really have to read the genre to write it but it does make it easier, especially when it comes to marketing.

I'm going to make a twist on this statement and say that you don't have to read anything in order to write. Anyone can try to write a story, novel, whatever.

However, if you want to write well and to be published, yes, you have to read in your genre. You need to know what's been written, what is being currently published, and how other authors are treating similar ideas.

I see variations of "I want to write, but I don't like to read" all the time, and it really makes my eyes cross. It's like saying I want to write a screenplay, but I don't watch movies. Or I want to be a fashion designer, but I don't actually give two hoots about clothes.

If your ideas are good, they'll still be there waiting for you when you've read those five books.

areteus · Oct 17, 2011

It's not really about learning what has been done before. Pretty much everything has been done before so you can barely avoid it. It's more about getting inside the genre and seeing how other people view it and using that as a springboard for your own ideas. By reading a novel in your genre (or any genre, TBH) you should come away with new twists on your own ideas - how to make them better, how to present them better, technical stuff you can try and so on. It's all about making a melting pot in your head with all your ideas and all the info you get from reading and extracting from all that something worthwhile.

And you can read and write at the same time. I read in places where I cannot write. In the bath is a favourite or when I am eating or just before I go to bed. You don't have to plough through 5 books in as short a time as possible. I usually read one a week (though I sometimes have 3 or 4 on the go at the same time).

And if you think it is not something professionals do... I once went on holiday with a friend who was in the middle of writing a comic based on Starship Troopers (ostensibly the film but, well, the anecdote says more...). The reading matter he had brought with him for the holiday was Heinlen's original novel because he wanted to go back to the source material and attempt to splice some of that into the material he was writing which was (according to the brief he had been given) supposed to be based more on the film. He was on holiday, this was his holiday reading, but he was still seeing at as something valuable for his work.

John_W · Oct 17, 2011

I'll go even further and say it's theoretically possible to write well without knowing anything about your subject. Broken clock is right twice a day and all that. But the more you know about its history and current state, the more likely you are to approach it intelligently.

AlienGirl, you cite older authors as influences, so you're already somewhat informed. But if you want to write in a thriving genre and don't enjoy anything written in it, you could be serious trouble. Do you want this to be your career? Or do you just want to write it for fun? In the latter case, you can go wild. But in the former case, it's necessary to have a grip on the market. Like Areteus said, you ought to build a sense of how people are using things. The notion that "it's all been done before" makes me cringe, especially in context of keeping abreast of genre. If John Scalzi had a highly similar idea to you two years ago, you're going to have a really tough job bringing your book to market.

I would ask how much you've explored the current scifi market, though. It's so broad that I'd be surprised if there was absolutely nothing in there a scifi enthusiast would enjoy. You did say you enjoyed works from 90's - and some of the big authors from then are still quite active. Do you not care for their current works, either?

Maxx · Oct 17, 2011

AlienGirl said:
The question is basically about wanting to write what you don't read, and wanting to write it well.

That's an interesting point. I guess it would depend on what "writing well" means. One of the fun things about writing genre fiction and especially Sci fi is that it is open to resonances from other books in ways that other genres don't seem to be. But mayb I don't read other genres enough.

Filigree · Oct 17, 2011

By all means, write. But take the time to do ongoing research, as well. Things have changed in genre publishing since the 90's.

This isn't as daunting as it appears.

Look at the major breakdowns of current fantasy and sf. You'll have lots of sub-genres to choose. Then look at the award-winners, bestsellers, and often-cited examples of each sub-genre. Read industry magazines and publishers'/agents' blogs often, to spot new trends rising. Amazon reviews and Wiki entries on authors can provide summaries of those works, so you can tell what books are about. If something strikes your fancy, buy it or read a library copy.

The dreaded, time-sucking site TV Tropes is another place to learn if your shiny, never-before-seen idea is actually old news. The entries are often painful, always fascinating, and very useful.

movieman · Oct 17, 2011

Most things in SF have been done before and if you look at the bookstore shelf you'll see that you don't need to write a masterpiece of originality to get published.

For example, there have been about three million SF books about people going to Mars, but that doesn't mean a writer can't sell another one. And if Big SF Writer just released another book about people going to Mars, then the readers who buy that might well want to buy any other books released on the subject.

But, yeah, read as much as you can. Then write something that interests you and it will probably interest others too; if a publisher won't buy it because Big SF Writer wrote something like it two years ago then you can always self-publish as an e-book or send it out again in another couple of years.

AlienGirl · Oct 17, 2011

ChaosTitan said:
I see variations of "I want to write, but I don't like to read" all the time, and it really makes my eyes cross. It's like saying I want to write a screenplay, but I don't watch movies. Or I want to be a fashion designer, but I don't actually give two hoots about clothes.

If your ideas are good, they'll still be there waiting for you when you've read those five books.

In my defense, I do love literature, but we're talking genres here, I feel like it's different than someone saying I hate reading books but I want to write them. Even then, imagination is a funny thing, and you get ideas for things that aren't necessarily what you're a consumer of yourself, but can see others wanting. I don't see anyone realistically finishing a book without loving literature either way, because you can't just write a good book in one go, it's a lot of work editing and learning from other people's examples, unless you just naturally think up stories in perfectly structured plots and good narrative.

Also, the five books thing was just a random thing, but there's a question there. How many is enough to say you know the genre? And which ones would be good examples? It seems there's more work there than just picking up some random books and starting to read.

John_W said:
I would ask how much you've explored the current scifi market, though. It's so broad that I'd be surprised if there was absolutely nothing in there a scifi enthusiast would enjoy. You did say you enjoyed works from 90's - and some of the big authors from then are still quite active. Do you not care for their current works, either?

I'm sure there's plenty more out there I'd enjoy. And if I was aware of someone already writing exactly what I want to write I'd be reading it right now. But it's hard to find those books. People may be writing about those topics, but handling it in a completely different way. Does that mean my way doesn't interest people, or that noone has come up with it yet, or that someone tried it but it didn't work out, and why didn't it work out

Guess I'm scared of getting lost and never getting the books written at all once I start to explore. I'm easily inspired, too, so everything I read will have an influence on my ideas, and I have what I feel like is too many to handle at once already.

Filigree said:
Look at the major breakdowns of current fantasy and sf. You'll have lots of sub-genres to choose. Then look at the award-winners, bestsellers, and often-cited examples of each sub-genre. Read industry magazines and publishers'/agents' blogs often, to spot new trends rising. Amazon reviews and Wiki entries on authors can provide summaries of those works, so you can tell what books are about. If something strikes your fancy, buy it or read a library copy.

The dreaded, time-sucking site TV Tropes is another place to learn if your shiny, never-before-seen idea is actually old news. The entries are often painful, always fascinating, and very useful.

I was right, there's a lot more work involved here. I have no idea what's out there right now, what authors are selling, or where to find a source for all that. As for tv tropes, I've spent a good few hours on that site and I'm glad to say I still think of myself as quite original though there is a lot to read there.

I guess I was hoping there'd be a big directory of sci-fi books, complete with their plot summaries and years and how popular they are, so I could just look for them based on the subjects that I'm interested in.

Polenth · Oct 17, 2011

This comes across to me as "I will hate some of these books, so therefore, I won't read any of them". And that comes across as an excuse. There will be books you think sound interesting, so read those ones. If you need recommendations, people can offer them (as long as you give a basic idea what you're looking for).

As for knowing if your idea has been done, I Google relevant terms (plot elements along with "science fiction" and novel). I always find books I didn't know existed. If they sound interesting, I might read them. Otherwise, I read a synopsis and some reviews to check my idea is sufficiently different.

movieman · Oct 17, 2011

AlienGirl said:
I guess I was hoping there'd be a big directory of sci-fi books, complete with their plot summaries and years and how popular they are, so I could just look for them based on the subjects that I'm interested in.

I have a couple of books like that, though they're now well out of date; the 1980s 'Encyclopedia of SF' was about twice the size of our phone book so I suspect you'd need to hire a truck to collect a contemporary equivalent from the book store.

I'm sure there must be a similar web site, but I've never gone looking.

MAP · Oct 17, 2011

AlienGirl said:
In my defense, I do love literature, but we're talking genres here, I feel like it's different than someone saying I hate reading books but I want to write them. Even then, imagination is a funny thing, and you get ideas for things that aren't necessarily what you're a consumer of yourself, but can see others wanting. I don't see anyone realistically finishing a book without loving literature either way, because you can't just write a good book in one go, it's a lot of work editing and learning from other people's examples, unless you just naturally think up stories in perfectly structured plots and good narrative.

I don't get the part I bolded. Are you saying you wouldn't be interested in reading the book you want to write? That makes no sense to me. Why would you write a book you wouldn't want to read?

Also, the five books thing was just a random thing, but there's a question there. How many is enough to say you know the genre? And which ones would be good examples? It seems there's more work there than just picking up some random books and starting to read.

There is no magic number. I think you should find one book that seems interesting and read it. If you liked it, look for other similar books and read them. SFF is a really diverse genre. There has to be something in it you like.

I'm sure there's plenty more out there I'd enjoy. And if I was aware of someone already writing exactly what I want to write I'd be reading it right now. But it's hard to find those books. People may be writing about those topics, but handling it in a completely different way. Does that mean my way doesn't interest people, or that noone has come up with it yet, or that someone tried it but it didn't work out, and why didn't it work out Guess I'm scared of getting lost and never getting the books written at all once I start to explore. I'm easily inspired, too, so everything I read will have an influence on my ideas, and I have what I feel like is too many to handle at once already.

I was right, there's a lot more work involved here. I have no idea what's out there right now, what authors are selling, or where to find a source for all that. As for tv tropes, I've spent a good few hours on that site and I'm glad to say I still think of myself as quite original though there is a lot to read there.

I guess I was hoping there'd be a big directory of sci-fi books, complete with their plot summaries and years and how popular they are, so I could just look for them based on the subjects that I'm interested in.

But you got us. We are like a big directory. Tell us what kind of SFF books you want to read, and we'll give you recommendations.

I agree with others. Go ahead and write your story ideas, but read while your doing it. There is no magic list of books or magic number. Just read the books in SFF that are similar to your stories and appeal to you. It won't be long before you get a good handle on your sub-genre of interest, and you might actually enjoy reading them.

Filigree · Oct 17, 2011

Yes, you will hate some of these books. Give yourself permission to do so, right now. If it doesn't speak to you by page 50, you can send it back to the library. Some books you will adore and never want to put down. But I'll tell you this: if you read critically, you'll learn just as much from the books you hate, as the ones you like.

One of Oprah Winfrey's big recent failures came when she tried to read Dickens' A TALE OF TWO CITIES and GREAT EXPECTATIONS, and decided they were too difficult. Not the cozy idea of literature she'd got from A CHRISTMAS CAROL, at all. Her example illustrates a truth sidelined from a lot of public and popular education. Real 'literature', of any genre, can be a mind-stretching effort. Like a few hours at the gym or on a mountain trail, it's going to hurt. But it's also good for you.

I have heard variations of the following genre argument since at least the early 80's: "Writing science fiction means I have to know science and math and stuff, and that's too hard. I can write fantasy without knowing anything."

Wrong. Writing crappy derivative fantasy may be easy. You might even sell it.

But research is not a bad thing. Amazing bits of serendipity pop up, from the oddest forays into science, technology, unfamiliar folklore, and travel. Throwing some real-world details into your fantasy, plus a lot of craft and a willingness to hammer away at rewrites, will help you create something wonderful.

That won't guarantee you an agent, a publisher, or a stable career. But it's a great foundation.

Filigree · Oct 17, 2011

To add to Movieman's comment: we are a freakin' huge directory. Many of us are readers from way, way back, and not just in genre fiction. We can at least give you keywords and websites, and let you run amok with your Google-Fu.

ChaosTitan · Oct 17, 2011

AlienGirl said:
In my defense, I do love literature, but we're talking genres here, I feel like it's different than someone saying I hate reading books but I want to write them. Even then, imagination is a funny thing, and you get ideas for things that aren't necessarily what you're a consumer of yourself, but can see others wanting. I don't see anyone realistically finishing a book without loving literature either way, because you can't just write a good book in one go, it's a lot of work editing and learning from other people's examples, unless you just naturally think up stories in perfectly structured plots and good narrative.

Let's look at it from a different perspective then, say food. You might love food, love to cook, and have plans to be a chef. But what if all you know how to cook is Italian and Greek food, because that's your favorite. It's what you love to eat, so why test other waters? What if, however, you're inspired to try making a curry? Or a tamale? You've never had curry beyond reading a few outdated recipes, but you want to try it anyway.

A good chef knows his ingredients, he knows his tools, and he knows the best methods to layer flavor and coax taste from food. In the same way, a well- and diversely-read author can coax the best story possible out of an idea. Reading historical fiction won't help you write a SF novel any more than a steady diet of pasta will help you bake a good cake.

Also, the five books thing was just a random thing, but there's a question there. How many is enough to say you know the genre? And which ones would be good examples? It seems there's more work there than just picking up some random books and starting to read.

There is no magic number. Saying you should read ten SF books before writing your own is no more helpful than people who say you have to write a million words of crap before you write gold. Everyone is different, and no one's process is the same.

And yes, there's more work to it than just picking random books. Writing is work, especially if you're going to seek publication. And doing proper research is just part of that work.

If you want recommendations, there's a Sticky thread at the top of this forum. It's a good place to start.

Lady MacBeth · Oct 17, 2011

ChaosTitan said:
If you want to write well and to be published, yes, you have to read in your genre. You need to know what's been written, what is being currently published, and how other authors are treating similar ideas.

If your ideas are good, they'll still be there waiting for you when you've read those five books.

Ditto that. Find the best books in your chosen genre. You might enjoy reading them more than you think.

Filigree · Oct 17, 2011

And whatever you do, don't write a book you wouldn't want to read. Your heart won't be in it, and that will show. Even for my cheesiest ghostwriting assignments, I've found something about the person or topic that interested me.

AlienGirl · Oct 17, 2011

MAP said:
I don't get the part I bolded. Are you saying you wouldn't be interested in reading the book you want to write? That makes no sense to me. Why would you write a book you wouldn't want to read?

No, of course I'd read what I write myself. I'm just saying I get where the people who don't think they would are coming from.

I'm searching for anything recent with psychosurgery experiments and virtual reality (not taking place entirely in virtual reality, but just as a component of life), weapons of mind control and erasing memories and idendities.

VictoriaWrites · Oct 17, 2011

I'm not sure I understand. Most people seem to write what they love. I love fantasy, especially retold fairy tales, so that's what I'm attempting to write.

If you want to write the story, go for it.

More sci-fi isn't a bad thing. But reading what's out there (good and bad) can only help you as a writer.

Smiling Ted · Oct 17, 2011

AlienGirl said:
Could the books I'm aching to write ever have a chance of getting published if the idea has been done already? And could my book still be an original, valuable addition to the genre, despite me not knowing what other autors have already written about? And if there's a blog or a guide to what's been done in sci-fi literature in the last few years, basically summing it up, I'd love to read that, too.

AG, start here.

froley · Oct 18, 2011

Most people who don't read science fiction don't really know what it is. They think it's all Star Wars and Star Trek and other TV shows/movies, when it really isn't (I'm not saying that's you, necessarily). You don't have to read a million books, but some recent Hugo/Nebula winners wouldn't hurt.

Buffysquirrel · Oct 18, 2011

Locus http://www.locusmag.com/ is handy for keeping up with what's being published in the field. Also, the SF encyclopedia has just gone live online: http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/

Do you have a library near you? They'd be able to help you with what's new, and make suggestions about what to read in the genre.

Nobody can write well in a vacuum.

sunandshadow · Oct 18, 2011

MAP said:
I don't get the part I bolded. Are you saying you wouldn't be interested in reading the book you want to write? That makes no sense to me. Why would you write a book you wouldn't want to read?

I've experienced this phenomenon of coming up with an idea that seems like it would be interesting to write in a genre I don't read. For example, I read romance. I've several times run into a romance novel where the "hero" was an abusive jerk and I actually started rooting for the heroine to kill him. Of course she never does because it is a romance novel. However now I have this idea in my head, this "romance novel gone wrong" which would be very cathartic to write but just isn't the kind of thing I'd seek out to read because I mainly prefer to read cheerful, positive fiction.

Similarly one time I had a nightmare about a really freaking scary horror concept, it was hard to get that out of my mind and I could have written it, but I don't like horror and don't read it except by unfortunate accident.

BigWords · Oct 18, 2011

Buffysquirrel said:
Nobody can write well in a vacuum.

I'm sure there is an SF story buried in the notion of someone trying to write a novel in the vacuum of space...

Getting to know the genre...But I want to WRITE it!

(Insert something whitty here)

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