Love cliches

[bluejester12]

Im working on a daunting fantasy work with a romance at it's center. What kind of love stories are cliche, in general or in sci-fanasty?

[emeraldcite]

Aren't all love stories cliche? It's the dressing that makes it unique.

1. Love and Loss (Think Romeo and Juliet)
2. Revenge/Jealousy
3. Reuniting
4. Love at first sight
5. Love affairs
6. Infatuation
7. Puppy love/Adolescentia


All I can think of for the moment. Was that what you had in mind?

[dragonjax]

I agree with Emerald. There's no such thing (in my opinion) as an original story. It's all in the telling. So, to answer your question, they're all cliched...but that doesn't mean you can't spin it with your own vision.

[Sage]

1. Love and Loss (Think Romeo and Juliet)
2. Revenge/Jealousy
3. Reuniting
4. Love at first sight
5. Love affairs
6. Infatuation
7. Puppy love/Adolescentia

Don't forget:
8. Love/hate

[MadScientistMatt]

Im working on a daunting fantasy work with a romance at it's center. What kind of love stories are cliche, in general or in sci-fanasty?

Two attractive people of opposite genders meet, and immediately hate each other. By the end of the story, they've fallen in love. Sometimes this one is painfully blatant. How many movies have you seen when a character appears and your first thought is, "OK, this one is going to be the protagonist's love interest?"

[emeraldcite]

Ah, yes. The ubiquitous number 8.

How did I miss you, oh sign of the infinite? You taunting, symmetrical beast of a number!

Yes...good show Sage: Love/Hate. Missed that one.

A possible #9...#9...#9...#9 ... sorry, having a White Album moment:

9. Redemption.

[Sage]

Ah, yes. The ubiquitous number 8.

How did I miss you, oh sign of the infinite? You taunting, symmetrical beast of a number!

Yes...good show Sage: Love/Hate. Missed that one.

A possible #9...#9...#9...#9 ... sorry, having a White Album moment:

9. Redemption.

I think between 8 & 9, you summed up the MCs' relationship in my NaNo fantasy novel.

[fedorable1]

Let us not forget the Romantic Comedy Formula:

Step 1: Couple falls in love.
Step 2: Misunderstanding causes a breakup.
Step 3: One travels great lengths to find the other and reunite.

Or the Teen Romantic Comedy Formula:

Step 1: Best friends like each other, but don't admit it.
Step 2: The guy dates Ms. Wrong and/or girl dates Mr. Wrong.
Step 3: The friends realize their dates are wrong.
Step 4: The friends reunite and admit their feelings, ending up with each other.

[My-Immortal]

10) Love triangle

11) Love quadrangle...

And don't forget the Love Tragedy Formula:

Step 1) Couple falls in love

Step 2) Something or someone drives the couple apart

Step 3) One kills the other over misunderstanding / or couple kills themselves

[loquax]

Okay, I'm just going to cut in here.

EVERYWHERE on this site I see people throw the word "cliche" around with little regard as to what it means. My old English teacher told us that a cliche was something that was once fresh and entertaining, but is now overused, and has hence lost its charm of originality. For example, a human falls in love with an alien.

A tried and tested story will have life in it no matter how many times it's been used. For this reason a "love story" is as about as cliche as a "novel".

[Diana Hignutt]

There's the version of the love story that I've used:

1) boy meets girl
2) they fall in love
3) boy becomes girl
4) they live happily ever after

[DaveKuzminski]

1. Young woman meets young man and falls in love but circumstances keep them apart.
2. Young woman meets second young man and falls in love causing her to be uncertain who she wants while circumstances also keep them apart.
3. Young woman discovers that distance from both men has lessened their attraction.
4. Young woman then discovers she doesn't want either man and becomes despondent about her chances for love only to discover that her closest friend was in love with her long before she met either of the two men. Recognizing how much she cares in return for him, she realizes that is a stronger love than she had for either of the other two suitors and marries the one who was closest.

Yes, it's in Protector of Seaswams. ;)

[Sage]

There's the version of the love story that I've used:

1) boy meets girl
2) they fall in love
3) boy becomes girl
4) they live happily ever after

LOL. Either way, it's pretty original, but if you mean that the boy becomes the girl he fell in love with, I think you win the prize.

[emeraldcite]

but if you mean that the boy becomes the girl he fell in love with,

Although, I think Diana meant that the two girls went on their merry way at the end, I think I really like this twist...

and not in a comedy kind of way. This would be a really interesting premise.

[My-Immortal]

Although, I think Diana meant that the two girls went on their merry way at the end, I think I really like this twist...

and not in a comedy kind of way. This would be a really interesting premise.

Or...
1) boy meets girl
2) they fall in love
3) girl dumps boy for second boy
4) boy becomes the "girl"
5) "girl" kills second boy
6) "girl" becomes "second boy"
7) boy and girl live happily ever after...?

Yeah, more of a fantasy / doppleganger type of love story...

Take care all -

[Slimjim]

There's the version of the love story that I've used:

1) boy meets girl
2) they fall in love
3) boy becomes girl
4) they live happily ever after

I have a variation on the above.

1) Boy meets girl
2) Boy falls for girl
3) Girl is held prisoner by lesbian
4) Girl is disgusted by lesbian's advances
5) Boy discovers she is really a "girl"
6) "Girl" rescues Girl
7) Girl realises she is still homophobic and runs away.


I think this adds another cattegory of

12) Unrequited love.

[Diana Hignutt]

Although, I think Diana meant that the two girls went on their merry way at the end, I think I really like this twist...

and not in a comedy kind of way. This would be a really interesting premise.

Yes, that's what I meant! I see that it is a dash confusing the way I wrote it. It's the premise of my first, Spectrum Award nominated novel, Moonsword, now languishing in publishing limbo...

[CasualObserver]

I'll assume by "love cliche" you mean "love plotline handled badly". In which case, I've seen it done atrociously on two fronts:

1) Not taking enough time to develop the relationship.

2) One side (or both sides) acting like an idiot for the sole authorial purpose of conjuring artificial tension.

Both lose on credibility grounds.

[katiemac]

Boy meets girl and they have a one night stand which, naturally, features fantastic sex. (Usually this action is completely out of character for the female, yet she just couldn't resist his smoldering eyes and hot bod -- maybe she was even drunk.) They never think they'll see each other again and then, as fate would have it, they end up working together/meeting at a benefit/saving the world, and, without any other basis for a relationship other than their sexfest, they fall in love.

[Jewel101]

good one katie

anyway, good place to throw in my question. I've realized that my whole romance bit of my book is kinda sunk. I need a way to spice it up. I need a way to make the reader uncertain about whether the two end up together. Any suggestions? (besides love triangle, already got that, i think it died)

[Sage]

good one katie

anyway, good place to throw in my question. I've realized that my whole romance bit of my book is kinda sunk. I need a way to spice it up. I need a way to make the reader uncertain about whether the two end up together. Any suggestions? (besides love triangle, already got that, i think it died)Make it seem to the reader & one of the characters that the other betrayed him/her?

[DaveKuzminski]

Right now, I've got a character who's been dishonored by her culture. Though she still operates an inn, she's lost all status after being manipulated by another character who caused that. She lost her status primarily because she killed her husband in a fit of rage believing he was turning against her. Now she's found herself forced into bed with the man who manipulated her.

So, the question is whether it would be too cliche for her to fall in love with the man who's manipulating her and gradually becoming evil? If not, then it will probably work well as a reason for her to reach a state of utter despair and later kill herself.

[Jewel101]

Make it seem to the reader & one of the characters that the other betrayed him/her?

i kinda did that. The guy feels hurt because he started to show feelings and she returned them and then turned around a fell for someone else. but i need more

[clara bow]

13) Forbidden love...a "cliche" I'm exploiting in my current work!

[Sage]

i kinda did that. The guy feels hurt because he started to show feelings and she returned them and then turned around a fell for someone else. but i need moreIs there any way to up the stakes on the betrayal (or on another betrayal or supposed betrayal)? Not necessarily just a betrayal in her feelings, but perhaps in some other aspect of the plot.

[Jewel101]

Is there any way to up the stakes on the betrayal (or on another betrayal or supposed betrayal)? Not necessarily just a betrayal in her feelings, but perhaps in some other aspect of the plot.

no, there isn't. the MC met her randomly and then started to guide them and ended up getting all twisted up in her adventure purpose thingy (whatever it's called)

[ChaosTitan]

ended up getting all twisted up in her adventure purpose thingy (whatever it's called)

Um...quest?

Perhaps if you gave us a better sketch of the plot, we could be of more assistance in sussing out ways to keep your characters apart.

-Kelly

[katiemac]

Now she's found herself forced into bed with the man who manipulated her.

So, the question is whether it would be too cliche for her to fall in love with the man who's manipulating her and gradually becoming evil? If not, then it will probably work well as a reason for her to reach a state of utter despair and later kill herself.

Well, there's a couple of variables here. Does she know she was manipulated? Because if she does, you're falling into the trap of great sex = love, (and here it's even more of a stretch, because you used the word "forced") and that a woman will disregard any of her own morals for the man she loves.

Falling into despair sounds more reasonable to me.

How big of a character are we talking?

[katiemac]

i kinda did that. The guy feels hurt because he started to show feelings and she returned them and then turned around a fell for someone else. but i need more

I think if you want to go for the betrayal angle, it should relate to the plot. I know this is wrong genre, but I can't stand rom-coms because there's usually a ridiculous reason for the female character (usually) to think the man has betrayed her -- overhearing part of a phone call, listening to the bad advice of a friend, etc. etc. In these cases, the betrayal is thrown in there so guy can lose one girl one last time before they reunite for good -- and more importantly, so the story can keep going.

If you keep the reason tied to the plot, it should keep the betrayal more plausible and give doubts to both the reader and the character. For example, if she's supposed to be guiding them, what would make the character think she's taking them to all the wrong places?

[Jewel101]

Um...quest?

Perhaps if you gave us a better sketch of the plot, we could be of more assistance in sussing out ways to keep your characters apart.

-Kelly

quest...i guess so, although they don't have a purpose.

anyway. there are these two siblings, a boy and a girl, who are on the run from the evil immortals. the run into the MC, who decides to show them to a city. On the way they run into the Keeper of Knowledge, whom they befriend. Finally, they make it to the city, all the while the MC and the girl grow closer until the Mc realizes he loves her. Then the brother of the keeper of knowledge comes and 'steals the girl away' (by accident). The brother gives them a message to go meet someone and they head off again.

that's more or less where I am

[Jewel101]

I think if you want to go for the betrayal angle, it should relate to the plot. I know this is wrong genre, but I can't stand rom-coms because there's usually a ridiculous reason for the female character (usually) to think the man has betrayed her -- overhearing part of a phone call, listening to the bad advice of a friend, etc. etc. In these cases, the betrayal is thrown in there so guy can lose one girl one last time before they reunite for good -- and more importantly, so the story can keep going.

If you keep the reason tied to the plot, it should keep the betrayal more plausible and give doubts to both the reader and the character. For example, if she's supposed to be guiding them, what would make the character think she's taking them to all the wrong places?

it's not the same sense of betrayal as you mean..For one, my MC is a guy and another, he has been shunned his whole life and he finally felt accepted and loved by this girl. Then he sees her doting on another guy he feels that sense taken away.... I could have said that better

[DaveKuzminski]

Well, there's a couple of variables here. Does she know she was manipulated? Because if she does, you're falling into the trap of great sex = love, (and here it's even more of a stretch, because you used the word "forced") and that a woman will disregard any of her own morals for the man she loves.

Falling into despair sounds more reasonable to me.

How big of a character are we talking?

She's going to gradually realize she was manipulated, but will have sunk so low in self-esteem that she'll see no way of return to her former status. She didn't want to have sex, but is falling into what would be Stockholm syndrome-type behavior. I doubt if she will actually love him. She will definitely fall into complete despair just before killing herself.

How big? I'm not sure I understand. She and he are in their late teens. She's not very experienced and he's recently been put into a position that gave him power, not much, but enough to go to his head. Those who put him into position already realize they made a mistake, but haven't yet decided to remove him from that position because of other circumstances.

[ChaosTitan]

quest...i guess so, although they don't have a purpose.

Not quest....how about journey?

anyway. there are these two siblings, a boy and a girl, who are on the run from the evil immortals. the run into the MC, who decides to show them to a city. On the way they run into the Keeper of Knowledge, whom they befriend. Finally, they make it to the city, all the while the MC and the girl grow closer until the Mc realizes he loves her. Then the brother of the keeper of knowledge comes and 'steals the girl away' (by accident). The brother gives them a message to go meet someone and they head off again.

It sounds like you know what the brother and sister's goal is (to stay alive while the evil immortals want them dead). But what is the Main Character's goal? What is he up to when he runs into the siblings? Why help them? Will helping them somehow help him reach a goal/satisfy a prophecy/find personal salvation/<insert idea here>?

And who is the "they" in the group that heads off again? Everyone we've met so far? Just the MC and the brother?

-Kelly

[Jewel101]

It sounds like you know what the brother and sister's goal is (to stay alive while the evil immortals want them dead). But what is the Main Character's goal? What is he up to when he runs into the siblings? Why help them? Will helping them somehow help him reach a goal/satisfy a prophecy/find personal salvation/<insert idea here>?

And who is the "they" in the group that heads off again? Everyone we've met so far? Just the MC and the brother?

-Kelly

um well, the MC was kinda of run out of his village so he has nothing better to do. Then they became his friends so after that, he ain't leaving. He finally found friends that accept him and he isn't the kind of person to just walk away from that, even in the face of danger.

And then there's the encouragment from his foster father, whom he loves to go out and find his destiny.

'they' are the siblings and the MC plus a tiny little thing that I keep forgeting that accompanies them. but you don't need to know about it.

[ChaosTitan]

um well, the MC was kinda of run out of his village so he has nothing better to do. Then they became his friends so after that, he ain't leaving. He finally found friends that accept him and he isn't the kind of person to just walk away from that, even in the face of danger.

And then there's the encouragment from his foster father, whom he loves to go out and find his destiny.

'they' are the siblings and the MC plus a tiny little thing that I keep forgeting that accompanies them. but you don't need to know about it.

All righty. So far, we've got the MC wandering through life, trying to discover his destiny. He runs into siblings on the run from evil immortals, and having nothing better to do, decides to help them. Along the way they meet two more people, one of whom creates a misunderstanding that makes the MC think his feelings for Girl are not returned. But because they are his friends, MC, Girl, and Boy (along with thing I don't need to know about) set out again.

It sounds like there are lots of internal conflicts going on. Where is the external conflict coming from? We know that the evil immortals are trying to kill the siblings, but beyond making MC very sad, will their demise affect the goings-on of this world? Does anyone else besides the MC care if they live or die? Is marrying her his destiny?

If you've plotted out the rest of the novel (where they are going next, stumbling block, new journey, new stumbling block, etc...), then throwing obstacles into the way of MC and Girl's true love should be easy enough. MC's emotional investment in Girl has to be the reader's emotional investment, or we won't care if they end up together in the end.

-Kelly

[katiemac]

She's going to gradually realize she was manipulated, but will have sunk so low in self-esteem that she'll see no way of return to her former status. She didn't want to have sex, but is falling into what would be Stockholm syndrome-type behavior. I doubt if she will actually love him. She will definitely fall into complete despair just before killing herself.

How big? I'm not sure I understand. She and he are in their late teens. She's not very experienced and he's recently been put into a position that gave him power, not much, but enough to go to his head. Those who put him into position already realize they made a mistake, but haven't yet decided to remove him from that position because of other circumstances.

Sorry, Dave, I meant if she was a major or minor character. I could see her slowly demoralizing herself for him if she doesn't know she's being manipulated (and the READER doesn't know, either). Otherwise I'd sit there for 100 pages screaming, "Why are you so BLIND?"

[Jewel101]

If you've plotted out the rest of the novel (where they are going next, stumbling block, new journey, new stumbling block, etc...), then throwing obstacles into the way of MC and Girl's true love should be easy enough. MC's emotional investment in Girl has to be the reader's emotional investment, or we won't care if they end up together in the end.

-Kelly

I guess my question is what kinds of obstacles. I can't think of one that seems adequate.

[ChaosTitan]

I guess my question is what kinds of obstacles. I can't think of one that seems adequate.

Try looking outside of your troika of characters for the obstacles.

Are the immortals sending assassins out after the siblings? If they want them dead, surely they are doing something to locate them.

Are there any farms/villages in the vacinity of their new destination? Could they get caught up in something happening there? Would the hero interfere in the execution of a farmer accused of stealing a neighbor's livestock because he disagrees with the punishment? Would the Girl disagree?

What about the politics of your world? Is the MC even allowed to travel with Girl? Are their social statuses the same or very different?

Obstacles can come from anywhere. You just have to look for them, and make them work with your world.

-Kelly

[Jewel101]

i guess my problem is seeing how I can use such obstacles as you mentioned to make their relationship in doubt

[sunandshadow]

This is an interesting topic to me because I'm working on the story for a romance computer game. The structure of this is, there are 9 major characters. All of them must be able to be 'courted' by the player. Some of them are in romances with each other, giving the player the choice to be a rival or a matchmaker. So I have to have more than 9 romance stories which aren't redundant with each other. :eek:

So far I've got an innocent fascinated by an unusual stranger, a captive finding pity for their much-mistreated captor, a distant intellectual awakened to the satisfactions of fleshly intimacy (which is actually pregnancy in this context), a big brother-little sister complex, a visionary leader and their loyal follower, a crossdressing caper... and I'm really running out of ideas. :e2faint:

[DaveKuzminski]

Sorry, Dave, I meant if she was a major or minor character. I could see her slowly demoralizing herself for him if she doesn't know she's being manipulated (and the READER doesn't know, either). Otherwise I'd sit there for 100 pages screaming, "Why are you so BLIND?"

Actually, I first thought she was a major character, but she's really not. She's more the kind of character that exists to create specific problems as well as a solution for the main characters. For instance, in their society, they have guilds that control many occupations. For instance, she was a cook, so you didn't just do your own cooking on a voyage, you had to hire a cook. This one crew desperately needed a cook. She couldn't swim, so her fear led to the necessity of designing a swimming suit for her that would make her float. That showed how far the other characters were willing to go to support her, especially since one of the secondary characters had fallen in love with her. Add into this the fact that some guilds outcasted their apprentices on occasion if they found their numbers too swelled for everyone to find jobs. She was already in danger of being outcasted, so it wasn't necessary for the other characters to ease her fears of the water. They could have said "either us or take your chances" to her.

Anyway, when I went back and analyzed her actions and motives, I discovered that everything she did was in accordance with her fears of being outcasted into the wilderness even though she was finding success and was no longer an apprentice. In other words, her fear caused her to lose everything she'd earned. Then when she'd sunk as low as she could without being outcasted, that's when I realized her only recourse was to take her life since she could no longer repudiate one of her earlier mistakes after losing the right to be addressed as "Honest". In other words, several societal pressures along with the other character's actions placed her in a position where she saw no other choice even when she realized too late that she'd been deceived. She couldn't even take revenge on the man who deceived and manipulated her because he was then in another location. However, I'll probably have a note found much later that reveals what she knew.