Does setting define subgenre? And then how would you call this?

Windcutter · Oct 9, 2011

No portals, no connections to our world, no alternate history, pure secondary world.

The level of technology is sort of early 20th century but not truly parallel (they have cars, for example, and other mechanisms, but no telephones), with a lot of magic and supernatural creatures mixed in. About 50% of events happens in different towns and cities (a bit similar to Old Europe style-wise). Oh, and there is a government that attemps to completely control its citizens, dystopia style.

I don't know what to call it.

Just Fantasy? But wouldn't people expect more swords, castles, dragons, etc? Something more medieval at heart.

Steampunk? But it's not really, there isn't a trace of that special fetish that's so noticeable in true steampunk. No grimy cities, airships and goggles, either.

Urban Fantasy seems pretty legit but I know people Will get confused because 10000000 urban fantasy books set in our world and our time say otherwise.

Technofantasy because of how the supernatural creatures have higher technologies? But it's too narrow, I think, and what's more important, I keep seeing it refer to "magic on another planet" kind of stories, a mix between Fantasy and SF, and this one is definitely not it.

Enlighten me, please.

Rolkus · Oct 9, 2011

Fantasy doesn't always mean middle-ages...

Windcutter · Oct 9, 2011

I know it doesn't, but I quite often come across certain opinions (including agents'):
1) fantasy is an umbrella genre like romance, so it's too vague to say your ms is just "fantasy"
2) anything with technology of any sort isn't true or real fantasy, i.e. the division happens around the 1800s-like level of technical development, and one needs to warn people about that

So I wondered if maybe there is some new subgenre I need to use when pitching and querying.

Filigree · Oct 9, 2011

Metropolis-style dieselpunk?

froley · Oct 9, 2011

Alternate history. Fantasy/alternate history, perhaps. Speculative fiction if all else fails.

mpack · Oct 9, 2011

Possibly New Weird, though that's a fuzzily defined term. It sounds like it has some similarities to Mieville's Bas Lag setting.

Mr Flibble · Oct 10, 2011

Setting doesn't always dictate genre (you could have a mediaeval style world with High fantasy, S&S, and Epic fantasy stories <- I have done all these with the same world)

Maybe as much has to do with tone, or the stakes etc, It's sort of a mishmash really.

For instance, I have a similar world to yours, but my tone lets me call it noir, so I get a get out jail free card.

I'd suggest this: Call it fantasy in the query, and then use your synopsis portion to show what kind of fantasy it is. Then the agent, who knows their stuff, can decide how they want to pitch it.

Alternatively: The readers of which currently published book might like this? Whose readers are you trying to steal? How is their work marketed? Go from there.

blacbird · Oct 10, 2011

I have enough trouble figuring out what a genre is, let alone worry about a sub-genre. Mostly, I just try to write decent stories.

caw

megan_d · Oct 10, 2011

I'll agree with mpack and say New Wierd. What you describe sounds a lot like Steph Swainstans 'Castle' trilogy, and I'm pretty sure that got classified as New Wierd.

Ehab.Ahmed · Oct 10, 2011

What's wrong with calling it just fantasy? It's a broad term, that's correct, but it increases your chances of catching the "right" genre. Besides, I write fantasy that's almost devoid of dragons, middle-ages, witches and the like. In the end, your agent might change your genre in accordance with the publisher and other "business" stuff to better market your novel. I have no experience in this stuff, I'm just thinking out loud.

blacbird · Oct 10, 2011

megan_d said:
I'll agree with mpack and say New Wierd. What you describe sounds a lot like Steph Swainstans 'Castle' trilogy, and I'm pretty sure that got classified as New Wierd.

Why? Because it's "new"?

Honestly, this obsession with meaningless labels really disturbs me. Are bookstores actually paying attention to such stuff?

caw

AceTachyon · Oct 10, 2011

Call it fantasy.

Then write your story.

Go on. Get writing.

Liosse de Velishaf · Oct 10, 2011

Call it fantasy, and if you must put an etxtra label on, call it fantasy dystopia. From what you describe, it doesn't really fall into the New Weird category.

I've written some stuff that's modern technology, secondary world, and I asked the same sort of question. It's fun soemtimes to think about it, but it's not really relevant to anything you as the author have to worry about. As far as agents go, fantasy or dystopic fantasy is plenty for a query, and they'll be able to help you with how to spin it to publishers.

Anne Lyle · Oct 10, 2011

blacbird said:
Why? Because it's "new"?

Honestly, this obsession with meaningless labels really disturbs me. Are bookstores actually paying attention to such stuff?

The bookshops don't care, but it helps agents to know straight off the bat which editors to submit the book to, as well as what the likely readership/commercial potential for the book might be.

To the OP, I would call it science fantasy or dystopian fantasy. Definitely not urban fantasy, because that's usually contemporary real-world, not secondary. Keep the label simple, and let your pitch and partial reveal the full flavour!

Windcutter · Oct 10, 2011

Thank you, so many different replies. This genre is truly diverse. ^___^

Anne Lyle said:
dystopian fantasy

Now that's a really interesting term.
I'm also looking at "gaslamp fantasy", but that seems a bit too far historically speaking.

Filigree said:
Metropolis-style dieselpunk?

Actually dieselpunk conveys the era better, but I think it's too heavy on tech. In my project, it's more of a backdrop whereas magic is important. I mean, I could turn it into a more typical fantasy if I wanted to, but I couldn't have made it into real dieselpunk/steampunk without really big changes.

I found a book with a setting that's pretty similar to mine when it comes to technology-fantasy mix (like, it features a small pseudo-European country ruled by a king, there are elves living in a mysterious forest, swords and a princess, but they also have trains and cars, telephones, universities, and women can be students or work as police detectives.) It's marketed simply as "fantasy".

AceTachyon said:
Then write your story.

Go on. Get writing.

Lol, you caught me. I'm thinking about genres instead of writing more stuff.

Hirvan · Oct 10, 2011

I guess if it's a secondary world and stuff you called call it High Fantasy. That's what I'm classing my book as, because it's weird; they use both guns similar to modern guns on earth and melee weapons like swords and axes as they people in this world are extremely strong so a strong swing can really hurt, and have thick skin giving them more protection against bullets. Due to conditions on my world they discovered technology at different rates, meaning it's technologically a mix between the Tudor period (1485 to 1603) and modern times on earth. I'm still calling it High Fantasy, though, as high fantasy doesn't mean medieval.

LadyDae · Oct 10, 2011

Just call it fantasy. Contrary to popular belief fantasy doesn't mean medievil. My novel is as urban asyou can get but the fantasy can't be missed.

bongalak · Oct 10, 2011

Ditto on the fantasy. At least for now. If you must know the exact name of your genre you can look for it after the story is done.

Wordwalker · Oct 14, 2011

Definitely fantasy, it's more about fine-tuning from that.

Especially, I think "Urban fantasy" really suggests it's fantasy in *our* cities, not just some urban setting.

But "alternate history" could be very good, if a lot of your emphasis is on how the world is like and different from ours. But only if they can see a lot of things that are really the same under the jumbling around, not just similar; if the world has a completely different history and came around to cars its own way, the label doesn't fit.

In any case, the genre's just the first step to describing it on its own terms.

geardrops · Oct 14, 2011

Windcutter said:
No portals, no connections to our world, no alternate history, pure secondary world.

The level of technology is sort of early 20th century but not truly parallel (they have cars, for example, and other mechanisms, but no telephones), with a lot of magic and supernatural creatures mixed in. About 50% of events happens in different towns and cities (a bit similar to Old Europe style-wise). Oh, and there is a government that attemps to completely control its citizens, dystopia style.

I would call this dystopic, or perhaps low fantasy.

Windcutter · Oct 14, 2011

What about "secondary world fantasy"? Or if I say simply "fantasy" without adding "urban", most people would assume exactly that?
"Alternate history" won't work, I think, because there isn't any emphasis on comparison.

Does setting define subgenre? And then how would you call this?

Windcutter

Rolkus

Thunder from Downunder

Windcutter

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

froley

mpack

Swooping is bad.

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

blacbird

megan_d

Falling in the milk

Ehab.Ahmed

Drifting Silently

blacbird

AceTachyon

Odd person

Liosse de Velishaf

Anne Lyle

Fantastic historian

Windcutter

Hirvan

Title

LadyDae

New AW user. Veteran Writer 8+

bongalak

Wordwalker

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job

Windcutter