Indenting paragraphs in manuscripts?

Sydney · Nov 26, 2005

To all the expierienced writers and editors. Please help. Some of use were recently told elsewhere that submitted manuscripts should not be indented as in a book but double spaced between paragraphs, and left hand justified.

Is this correct???? If it is it would make a manuscripts huge.

Let me know please. Thanks.

SpookyWriter · Nov 26, 2005

Sydney,

I wonder where that other thread began? :idea:

Read any number of fiction books and you'll have the answer.

Jon

Pat~ · Nov 26, 2005

Sydney said:
To all the expierienced writers and editors. Please help. Some of use were recently told elsewhere that submitted manuscripts should not be indented as in a book but double spaced between paragraphs, and left hand justified.

Is this correct???? If it is it would make a manuscripts huge.

Let me know please. Thanks.

This is the 'sign of an amatuer' according to Noah Lukeman, (The First Five Pages). Indent paragraphs with tab key, and do not double space between paragraphs. Do left-hand justify (but not right-hand).

Sydney · Nov 26, 2005

Indenting paragraphs

Then I wasn't the one being amateurish, the one who told us this was.

The one who said not to indent stated her agent and publisher told her this.

Regarding looking in a book that is obvious. If you had read my initial post you would have noticed that doing as in what is in the book, is what I have been doing.

I think a couple of you were being rather hard on me considering you are also saying I am doing it the right way.

Do others of you agree that indenting (in the submission manuscript only to the agent and publisher), is the right way to do it??

Thank you.

Richard White · Nov 26, 2005

Indent paragraphs
Double space between every line (that gives the editors room to make corrections/comments/etc.)
If you want to have a line separating a change of scene, use # # # centered in the line you want skipped.
Use whatever font the publisher/editor wants (usually 12pt Courier, but my current editor wants 12 pt TNR, so that's what I'm doing it in).
Left Justification (Unless you're doing chapter numbering/chapter titles, those usually get centered at the top of the page according to my editor).

wgjones3 · Nov 26, 2005

The left justified, empty line between paragraphs, sounds like a query letter format to me. A business letter at any rate. Not a manuscript.

eskkar · Nov 26, 2005

PB10220 is right - Listen to Noah

Read Noah Lukeman's 'The First Five Pages.' It should be required reading for any aspiring writer. I heard him speak at a writing conference in San Diego, and he's a fastastic lecturer.

The 'First Five Pages' tell you everything you need to know, including how to write, get past the slush pile, and how to submit.

Another good book on writing is Stephen King's 'On Writing.'

eskkar

Pat~ · Nov 26, 2005

Sydney said:
Then I wasn't the one being amateurish, the one who told us this was.

The one who said not to indent stated her agent and publisher told her this.

Regarding looking in a book that is obvious. If you had read my initial post you would have noticed that doing as in what is in the book, is what I have been doing.

I think a couple of you were being rather hard on me considering you are also saying I am doing it the right way.

Do others of you agree that indenting (in the submission manuscript only to the agent and publisher), is the right way to do it??

Thank you.

Sydney, I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't criticizing you for being amateurish...just sending along info about what a noted author had to say about the practice. I'm truly sorry if you took offense.

Sydney · Nov 26, 2005

Indent paragraphing or line spacing.

Sorry Pat, looks like my mistake. I realize you are saying the other person was amateurish now. Sorry about that. However Mr. Fiction had me all wrong.

Cmon though guys now Mr. White is saying not only a space between paragraphs but a space between each line???? That definitely can't be right.

Lets get some more imput here until we find out the answer. What is the answer??? Thank you.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 26, 2005

Sydney said:
To all the expierienced writers and editors. Please help. Some of use were recently told elsewhere that submitted manuscripts should not be indented as in a book but double spaced between paragraphs, and left hand justified.

Is this correct???? If it is it would make a manuscripts huge.

Let me know please. Thanks.

I think it depends on the publisher, frankly. I've dealt with an e-zine in the past that asked for submissions to be sent in the body of an email, which does not allow for much in formatting. I believe the formatting they asked for was similar to what you stated in the above quote, because of email formatting restrictions.

I've never heard of this being done with a hard-copy manuscript, though. Even so, you ought to always follow the submission guidelines of the publisher you're submitting to, as best you possibly can. If that particular publisher asks for that particular format, then by all means send it that way.

But it really depends on the individual publisher.

I hope this helps you out, Sydney.

JoeEkaitis · Nov 26, 2005

Bill Shunn answers all your questions about manuscript formatting.

Sage · Nov 26, 2005

Sydney said:
Cmon though guys now Mr. White is saying not only a space between paragraphs but a space between each line???? That definitely can't be right.

Lets get some more imput here until we find out the answer. What is the answer??? Thank you.

I believe the space between each line means simply to double space the document. This gives the editor space to edit.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 26, 2005

Sydney said:
Snipped...

Cmon though guys now Mr. White is saying not only a space between paragraphs but a space between each line???? That definitely can't be right.

....Snipped.

Actually, I believe the double spacing between each line is standard industry practice. Like Mr. White said, it allows the editor to write between the llines what he or she needs to correct in either spelling or grammar, or maybe to make suggestions to the author on how to make the book even better than it already is.

Again, though, whatever the publisher you're sending your work to has in its submission guidelines, that's what you should follow.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 26, 2005

Indents

Indent five spaces, and double space between lines. Never, ever add an extra space between paragraphs unless you're writing for an electronic publication.

A sample manuscript by one of the best pros in the business can be found at http://www.sfwriter.com/owindex.htm

It's odd someone would tell you to format that way. Two minutes on Google will give numerous pro sites that tell anyone how format correctly.

Sydney · Nov 26, 2005

Sorry about that Mr. White. I guess you were saying double spacing the whole manuscript and that is correct. I thought you were saying putting in extra space between the paragraphs. Which is what I was told and I think wrongly.

Regarding how it is for the publisher. The trouble is our agents are submitting our work to the publishers. Often they submit to several, and often they may have us change a few minor things to fit the specified publisher but they don't usually have us reformat the whole manuscript.

So what we are trying to find out is what the norm is regarding what we send to the agent.

I don't know why they said not to indent and to put an extra space between the paragraphs which would make that a triple space. I agree with you (just above.)

Would appreciate your others inpute on this because we are still having too many differing opinions. Thanks

Sydney · Nov 27, 2005

Thank you Joe, I appreciate that and congratulations on your success.

I am just trying to figure out if Mr. Shunn is correct like I think he is or if the other side is correct on this. I fugure the more input we get will answer the question for us.

Also Mr. Shunn says not to number the first page. I know of no way to keep the first page from not being numbered using the page numbering system that doesn't allow you to choose a starting number. It always starts with 1.

Is no number on the first page really that important??? If it truly is I will reprint the first page over again removing the number 1 just to add it back in again later.

If you aren't sure don't answer. .....If someone else knows please pass it along to us. Thanks.

Aconite · Nov 27, 2005

Sydney said:
The trouble is our agents are submitting our work to the publishers. Often they submit to several, and often they may have us change a few minor things to fit the specified publisher but they don't usually have us reformat the whole manuscript.

So what we are trying to find out is what the norm is regarding what we send to the agent.

Sydney, something sounds funny about this. Who is your agent?

Pat~ · Nov 27, 2005

Sydney said:
Thank you Joe, I appreciate that and congratulations on your success.

I am just trying to figure out if Mr. Shunn is correct like I think he is or if the other side is correct on this. I fugure the more input we get will answer the question for us.

Also Mr. Shunn says not to number the first page. I know of no way to keep the first page from not being numbered using the page numbering system that doesn't allow you to choose a starting number. It always starts with 1.

Is no number on the first page really that important??? If it truly is I will reprint the first page over again removing the number 1 just to add it back in again later.

If you aren't sure don't answer. .....If someone else knows please pass it along to us. Thanks.

Microsoft Word has an option that lets you not number the first page if you so choose...

James D. Macdonald · Nov 27, 2005

Sydney said:
I am just trying to figure out if Mr. Shunn is correct like I think he is or if the other side is correct on this.

Mr. Shunn is correct.

Also Mr. Shunn says not to number the first page. I know of no way to keep the first page from not being numbered using the page numbering system that doesn't allow you to choose a starting number. It always starts with 1.

What wordprocessor are you using? Skipping the running head on a given page (while maintaining page numbering) is dead easy in WordPerfect, and I suspect in any other modern wordprocessor you cared to name.

If you can't figure it out, no biggie. If your manuscript is rejected, that won't be the reason why.

Andrew · Nov 27, 2005

In the many rejections I've collected I've never been rejected for indenting paragraphs--which I do. When I shift to another scene, I double space between paragraphs--that is in my double spaced manusripts, an extra one is added between subjects--that aren't quite right for a change in chapter.

Flapdoodle · Nov 27, 2005

wgjones3 said:
The left justified, empty line between paragraphs, sounds like a query letter format to me. A business letter at any rate. Not a manuscript.

Or academic/report writing.

Bufty · Nov 27, 2005

I note Mr Shunn indents the first line of a Chapter and the first line after any space break. Being British that detail doesn't cause me any lack of sleep whatsoever but is it correct? The editorial guidance I received was to not indent those first lines.

maestrowork · Nov 27, 2005

just listen to the pros and indent your paragraphs, etc. Act professional. I agree Uncle Jim that it's probably no big deal, and if your ms. is rejected it's probably not because it doesn't indent paragraphs or if you number the first page, but why take the chance? When in doubt, always ask for submission guidelines.

victoriastrauss · Nov 27, 2005

Sydney said:
Regarding how it is for the publisher. The trouble is our agents are submitting our work to the publishers. Often they submit to several, and often they may have us change a few minor things to fit the specified publisher but they don't usually have us reformat the whole manuscript.

So what we are trying to find out is what the norm is regarding what we send to the agent.

I agree with Aconite--something sounds odd here. Manuscript format really shouldn't be an issue for a print publisher--basic format, as described in this thread, is taken for granted. I'm wondering how much experience your agent (agents?) has.

- Victoria

egem · Nov 27, 2005

maestrowork said:
just listen to the pros and indent your paragraphs, etc. Act professional. I agree Uncle Jim that it's probably no big deal, and if your ms. is rejected it's probably not because it doesn't indent paragraphs or if you number the first page, but why take the chance? When in doubt, always ask for submission guidelines.

Maestrowork I think you hit it on the head. If I want to know what the publisher wants I send for guidelines. Double space and paragraph indented has always been the norm, I believe. The font also depends on what the publisher wants. I think courier has always been the standard (based on old typewriters, but some publishers now are asking for TNR). I think this has to do with the word and word perfect problems from a few generations ago. When I worked in publishing we started using TNR around 1999. Our clients sometimes had to reformat the work and courier caused problems being that both Word and Wordperfect were defaulted to TNR. Old pros use courier and if an old pro is the editor (they usually are) I would rather them feel comfortable with what I'm sending. I think asking is always a plus. The more contact with an editor the better IMO.

Funny story on the issue of writing in the margins: Once I had a friend who was a college prof have a paper published by a journal. It was a paper on Marvell. The journal was a good academic journal. My friend wrote "SHOULD THIS BE IN HERE?!" underlined and circled a sentence in the paper on the gallies. When he got his copy of the journal it had the line SHOULD THIS BE IN HERE in all caps in the middle of the page. I always said he should have contacted the editor a few more times on this one before it made it to print, but someone was being a stubborn. I figured I'd add this just for kicks.

Indenting paragraphs in manuscripts?

Sydney

SpookyWriter

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

Sydney

Richard White

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler

wgjones3

eskkar

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

Sydney

SeanDSchaffer

JoeEkaitis

Certified Gray Haired Geek

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

SeanDSchaffer

Jamesaritchie

Sydney

Sydney

Aconite

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Andrew

Most of the rules gotta go...

Flapdoodle

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

egem