Evil Mod Kills Prompt Thread--Or Does He?

night-flyer said:

I hope others take advantage of this and of the hounds crits. The hounds are the best critters afterall.

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Agreed. It's been a little intimidating, the times I've tried my hand at critting. They set a high standard for helpfulness. I'm looking forward to making more use of them once I'm done with uni.

Although maybe I should try to make use of them now, if a poor showing means no more prompts.

I don't want the prompts to stop, even though I've only been able to participate once. Even if I don't get to use the prompt right away, I keep track of the ones that speak to me, so I can come back to them later.

I wish I had known earlier that even if you miss the deadline, you can still post the story in SYW. I've got several abandoned stories that were inspired by prompts, but because I didn't get finished with it by the deadline, I stopped working on it.

This month I've been editing my novel and I've been working on another story that I hope will be a short, but it wasn't inspired by the prompt. It was inspired by a co-worker who's scared of garden gnomes. (Yes, garden gnomes.)

Even if I don't always get to participate, I still love seeing the prompts, so I hope they continue. AND when I've finished with what I'm currently working on, I think I'll go back and finish the stories that were inspired by prompts. Especially now that I know it's okay to post stories that are from previous prompts!

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, Haggis, I think that something like an ongoing prompt thread, much like the first line game thread, might be a suitable replacement in the future for the monthly prompt thread if it falls down the rabbit hole (or into the zombie grave).

That way, anyone could post a prompt, challenge others to post prompts, or mine the thread for prompts when having a dry spell (Lord knows I've gone back through some of the monthly prompts looking for inspiration a time or three).

Something like that might be worth taking a look at.

Me too, my friend. Me too.

But sh$t happens and people fall away from the life. I worry every day that I can't keep up with the life because of one thing or another.

But one thing we must never forget - we're all in this together and AW is here to encourage writers, not discourage them. If we shut a door, we have to open a window.

Honestly, I've been using the prompts that have been posted. I just haven't been sharing my stories (partly because I'm just being stupid, and partly because I can't seem to keep anything under 6k). Anyway, they're helping me, even though I haven't said so.


I'm going to get over my sharing anxiety this month. But that's not to say it won't strike again in future months. I'm afraid we'll get decent turn out this month, but only because we feel pressure to not have the whole thing go away. (not trying to be a downer, but I'm for looking for another way to structure it, if that's what it takes to get more participants.)

Soapie, nonsense on all your fears.

Post.

SYW is for posting work that isn't yet finished. It's for posting work that you want to have advice about.

Yeah, sometimes the comments can be harsh (I'm among the worst offenders), but the goal is to help you get better.

We're not going to say "soapie's latest story was stupid". We're going to say "Soapie, it needs work here and here, and maybe here".

Some people can take the criticism. Some can't. Some think their baby is perfect right out of the gate. It never is.

Writing is a craft, an art, yes, but a craft. It requires workmanlike application to the craft, sometimes in an apprentice-Master relationship, to achieve any kind kf status at all.

Too many people think that the words they put down on paper are high art just they way they come out. GET A CLUE. It doesn't work that way.

Writing is not, really, an art, it's a craft. It's like masonry, or carpentry, or roofing. It's got structure and things you have to know before you're going to write a story that's going to earn you a bajillion dollars. You have to pay your dues and do your apprenticeship and learn before the feet of Masters before you start to earn your place.

Most of all, you have to learn from the masters by reading what they wrote.

Why is learning a martial art more important than learning to write? Bushido Masters considered writing one of the highest of arts. Why is learning to write considered something one cannot take their time to learn? Young writers come out of high school and college eager and driven to write and then learn, very quickly, that they don't know WTF they're trying to do.

Writing is a craft. In a craft, you learn by doing, by watching your Master perform the job and by performing the job yourself over and over again until you know it like you know the back of your own hand.

Writing is no different. You need to know the Masters and study their ways. You need to imitate the Masters and study how you differ. You need to find your own way, guided by the Masters, and express your own voice in your craft.

Ultimately, you need to learn your craft. You need to continue learning your craft. No one ever stops learning a craft.

It's not art, it's craft. There's a huge difference.

Understand what that difference is.

An artist can say sh$t is art.

A writer cannot present sh$t and say it's art.

It just doesn't work that way.

One of my best short stories came from a prompt here. I love the prompts, gets the imagination going. I think little participants is just an indication of sh*t happening in everyday life, or too many projects already in the oven, not a reflection on the prompts themselves.

*hopes that Haggis keeps the monthly prompts even if there's low participation*

If even one writer can benefit from them, then isn't it worth keeping it going?

And maybe there's a way to post something in the newbie forum so that they know that we do this. A good way to get newbies participating here on the forum and joining in on something that would be very helpful to them.

Grrr. I have more thoughts, ideas and suggestions, all the sudden. But I have to go. I'll be back to contribute more to this discussion.

Like n-f, my best (I think) story came from one of these prompts. So did my second-best, as a matter of fact. And, like soapdish, I've been quietly using them but not posting. They've kept me writing over the last couple of years by giving me something to write about, and a deadline of sorts. And when inevitably I end up having to walk away when I'm only three-quarters of the way through because I've got a dozen assignments and three tests to sit* I don't feel quite so guilty.

That said, I didn't think for a second you were just being a big, jack-booted meanie for the fun of it, Haggis. A lot of thought goes into coming up with the prompts, and it's a little much to ask of people that these prompts keep running just because I want a kick in the rear to keep me going.




* Possible exaggeration on my part.

Okay, so what I was going to say...

I just wanted to point out that while I'm not using SYW on a regular basis, that doesn't mean I'm not getting feedback. I'm just seeking it out privately.

Well, that and sometimes I do think my stuff is awesome right out of the gate and needs no further work. (kidding, I NEVER think that! )

Anyway, I also just realized that the "life gets in the way" excuse isn't really one I can use for not *writing* the prompt story. As I suspect others (Neuro, that's you and a bunch more) can claim.

I tend to make time to write regardless of everything else happening around me. In fact, some people in my RL would argue that "writing gets in the way of my life" . If I'm not writing, I'm outling or researching or worldbuilding etc.

HOWEVER, the "life gets in the way" excuse does come into play for me with regard to reading and critting the prompt stories.

I beta for friends privately on a weekly basis and slush read daily, so critting everyone who participated in the prompt seems like overload for me. Yet I feel guilty if I don't get everyone. And I'd feel even guiltier if I didn't at least return to the favor for everyone who comes along and crits my story. Does that make sense? Do others feel this way, or am I whining in solitude here?

Because, my bet is, if you have a hard time finding the time to write the story because "life gets in the way", making time to read and crit all of them is an issue as well.

So...I'm wondering if it's possible to maybe have the option to post in SYW OR solicit a crit from interested betas privately instead.

In the Write1Sub1 forum, for example, we have a place where you can post the type of story/scene etc. you need critiqued, the word count, and any other details you want, and then people either PM you and volunteer to read/trade or respond directly in the thread with a "send it my way".

It's nice for a few reasons: because everyone gets something critiqued but not necessarily by every single person participating. Critiquers get to give their 2 cents and help another writer without feeling pressure to help ALL the writers.

And, for writers who are shy to use SYW, they still get a critique (often several, depending on how may people step up). Which makes me wonder if it'd make it more friendly for Newbs to participate.

It's hard, because I firmly believe that SYW is a rite of passage. Like a band-aid--you gotta rip it off and just do it! And also that it is there for people to use and should be used. But then I'm also the one avoiding it on a regular basis now too.

I guess I am just saying, maybe there could be other options for sharing/participating in addition to SYW?

soapdish said:

I beta for friends privately on a weekly basis and slush read daily, so critting everyone who participated in the prompt seems like overload for me. Yet I feel guilty if I don't get everyone. And I'd feel even guiltier if I didn't at least return to the favor for everyone who comes along and crits my story. Does that make sense? Do others feel this way, or am I whining in solitude here?

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Probably not, soap. Whining in solitude, I mean. I know the few times I've made it to the point with a story where I was ready to have it pulled apart in SYW, I've always tried to make sure I set aside some time for giving back. Except I tend to aim for other participants, and stories with the fewest crits. That's not always necessarily the people who critted me. So now I'm wondering if I took the wrong approach.

That does seem like a nice compromise, but I wonder whether newbies might find they're not getting a lot of volunteers. After all, in SYW you can open a story and see whether you have the time (or inclination) for the level of crit it might need without tacitly committing to do it as you would with a PM. With someone who's been around longer, people either know what they'll be getting, or can find out easily enough. But maybe having it as a second option if you're afraid of SYW (as I know I was when I first got here) is a good idea. And the Hounds are a very welcoming and inclusive bunch, so I may be seeing a potential problem where none exists.

I didn't choose this user name by accident.

I don't think you took the wrong approach to critting, Neuro. Everyone has their own way of doing it. I'm just obsessive compulsive about critting everyone or no one. I have a hard time doing anything in between.

With what I was proposing, if newbies don't get a lot of volunteers, no one would know it because it happens in PMs, so my way of thinking is that it makes it less stressful. In other words, it's less stressful than seeing 20 "opens" but only 1 crit. But you're right, about not really knowing what you're getting into until you open it up...and you wouldn't get that if you were committing to an email or PM crit...

Maybe people could post their opening para? The hook. If it hooks a critter then they can volunteer. Then you'd know a little more, at least, what you were getting into.

Every option is going to have its faults, I think.

That is very true, soap. There's no one way that's going to work for everyone. But the opening paragraph is a good idea.

The 20-views-one-crit thing... Yeah, I can see that being stressful. If I critted more (and thought I was remarkably good at it) I'd point out that those are what attract me to at least have a look. I hate to use the word pity-crit, because it might sound like I'm doing a half-hearted job of it, but it's not far from the truth. Except for the half-hearted part. But from the newbie's perspective, I can see how badly it would suck, having the terrible nibble-to-bite ratio out there for the rest of the world (or at least the rest of AW) to see.

So all round, I think I like your suggestion. Choose to post in SYW, or post an opening paragraph and a request for private assistance. I guess that's two of us happy.

A lot of newbies don't get very many crits because they post like mad to get 50 posts and then just throw their work up without getting to know anyone or really participating at AW.

But I don't see how it would hurt to have the option, if someone wanted it. They could just add that to their post.

I like both ways, SYW or private. Or both sometimes.

That can be a problem, n-f, I don't deny that at all. And likewise, the few times I've posted I haven't expected a lot of crits because I don't generally spend a lot of time posting in the horror section. (But I lurk, so don't think I don't know what you're all doing down here.) But it's not all of them. The racers-to-50 of today are just the first-post's-a-crit-request of last year. It's a pain in the arse when that happens. I've wasted time on those before. But it's not always that causing the problem. Sometimes they've been hanging out elsewhere. Sometimes their work is a little rough, or not to their new friends' tastes, or who knows what else. Sometimes, like me, their lack of participation comes from the feeling that they simply don't have much to offer.

The people soapdish's suggestion would really help isn't so much those racers-to-50. I'd be surprised if they hesitate to post in SYW. Seems that would defeat the purpose of their mad dash. It's the ones who aren't sure of themselves. Who sit there and stare at the 'post new thread' button for half an hour before finally going through with it, and then watch their thread for the next several days wondering why 30 people have looked at it, and nobody's commented.

Those are the ones I feel sorry for. Because I've been there.

True. But what if someone puts up that they want a private critique and then gets no reply? Other people may assume that they probably got their critique already, because they won't have any way of knowing if that story got a crit or not.

I'm not against it, btw. I'm fine with it. Whatever works is good for me.

And yeah, when I first got here I was terrified to make a post of any kind, much less putting up my work. It took quite a long time before I put something up for a crit.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at when I said newbies might have trouble finding volunteers. Some newbie creeps in here, scared and alone, and puts up a request, and everyone assumes everyone else has done it. On the one hand, it's less embarrassing than the view:comment ratio in SYW. On the other, without that sad ratio, nobody knows they're needed. I don't know how you'd deal with that, unless people just said in the thread that they've done it. I can see that thread getting really cluttered really fast, though. An honour system, wherein the newbie edits their original post to say, 'I have received five crits which have given me much to think about. I shall return with a much improved version.'

You could also make a good case for people who want to start submitting benefitting from getting over their fear of posting in SYW as a step towards building up the nerve to submit. If you wanted to. I'm just a softie today for some reason. Massive head trauma, perhaps? I don't remember getting hit on the head, but I guess I wouldn't necessarily, would I?

*hides bat behind back*

Your head is kinda soft today.

I guess we should let more members and hounds weigh in on this. And Haggis.

I'm not saying that I done it on a thread, not with Haggis and bos around.

Yeah, I'm not around here often enough to think I should even get a vote. But I had half a dozen more important things I should have been doing, so it seemed the perfect time to throw out unsolicited opinions.

I think everyone at AW has a say, if they want one.

I like squirrel opinions.