Differences between MG and YA

Undercover · Sep 12, 2011

Ah, the beautiful fine lines of being categorized. I write YA but was thinking of an MG novel. But I have questions.

I know MG novels can be around 25K, right? What's the range? Could it be dark and edgy? Could I do any genre I please? What's the most popular (so I don't overdo) And most of all what are the differences between MG and YA novels?

I heard about this internal vs. external, which may be hard for me. And yes, before you mention it, I'm going to the library today to pick up the latest MGs.

Cyia · Sep 12, 2011

25K is pretty short, even for MG. 40 seems closer to the present average (going by book shelves), with the word counts creeping higher toward 60. If you're writing young MG, something in the 7 or 8 year old range, shorter is more common, though.

With YA, there's a lot of focus on personal interaction and feeling. Things are driven by emotion and the way the characters relate to each other. You've got more hormones in the mix, so there's more potential drama. The characters are barreling toward adulthood, but still tied to their adolescent restrictions. They've got a bit of freedom, but can still look to adults for a safety net (if there's no other choice.)

With MG, it's more about what's going on and how the character's are stuck having to deal with it. Action is key. Kids in this age range are restricted by their age in many ways. They can't jump in a car the way a teen can, and they're less likely to have someone ignore the fact that they're out of school at 11 am on a Tuesday because there aren't as many believable reasons for a kid that age to be elsewhere.

Is dark okay? Read Coraline or The Graveyard Book.

Undercover · Sep 12, 2011

Thanks Cyia, I will remember that. And I will look for those books too.

RexZentah · Sep 12, 2011

There are more answers here, it's a sticky in YA. Why there isn't a home for MG I don't know.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164605

Ferret · Sep 12, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
I know MG novels can be around 25K, right? What's the range? Could it be dark and edgy?

MG can be dark, certainly, but not edgy--at least not in the sense that edgy YA is edgy. Sex, drugs, and swearing really aren't found in MG. Deaths and violence are not uncommon, although they need to be handled with care.

Smish · Sep 12, 2011

I know you don't want to hear it, but I'm going to say it anyway: read, read, read. Start with the Newbery winners and branch out from there.

Also, there's a lot of discussion in the All Things Middle Grade thread.

Big things to get right: MG voice, plot (generally speaking, you really need some sort of external motivation, in addition to an internal motivation), kid problems (generally speaking, the problems are more present than in YA. Kids struggle with how to fit within their small world. They don't worry about the future in the same way teens do), etc. Once you start reading MG, you'll see what I mean.

M. Scott · Sep 12, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
Ah, the beautiful fine lines of being categorized. I write YA but was thinking of an MG novel. But I have questions.

I know MG novels can be around 25K, right? What's the range? Could it be dark and edgy? Could I do any genre I please? What's the most popular (so I don't overdo) And most of all what are the differences between MG and YA novels?

I heard about this internal vs. external, which may be hard for me. And yes, before you mention it, I'm going to the library today to pick up the latest MGs.

I once read the most common criteria is 30-40K. The MG manuscript I'm slowly querying is 34K or so. Personally, I'm thinking about aiming for 40-45K for my current one. At the moment, a few agents are stating a preference for MG intended for boys. In other words, dark and creepy is just fine.

Also, as a general rule, remember that parents like to shelter their MG readers a bit. If you want your work to be considered for readings in schools, keep it friendly. Still, you can enter some darker areas as long as you aren't detailed, obsessing over gritty material.

Some thoughts: natural disasters, poverty, divorce, death (or coping with a death), self-esteem issues, bullying, etc. Magic and mystical threats are always fun too.

Undercover · Sep 12, 2011

Thanks everyone, for all the info.

Thank you too M. Scott, for the ideas.

Ferret, I will keep that in mind about the edgy vs. dark. Wasn't sure on that. I have a few ideas which are dark, but not the sex, drug thing.

MsJudy · Sep 12, 2011

The thing i always come back to is the sense of time.

MG is totally in the present/near future. The problem is here and now.

YA is really about the future. Whatever the present-moment problem is, the MC is always a bit focused on what happens next. Becoming an adult. Gaining that freedom.

Adult is about the past. How previous events and actions brought the character to the current moment.

Kitty Pryde · Sep 13, 2011

Things I have read about in MG novels, lest you think they are all kittens and rainbows: suicidal homeless orphans, depressed quadriplegic children, evil grandmothers drowning babies, mom getting arrested for making meth on the kitchen table, cranky homeless disabled children, small children being thrown out fourth story windows, dead best friends, dead moms, dead sisters, gay kids, gay parents, gay siblings, children adopting filthy hobos, children adopting creepy hobo angels, cross-dressing children, creepy racists, incarcerated moms, and alcoholic moms. FWIW.

ETA: Oh yeah, and a little girl stabbing a teacher in the stomach with a dagger, though that book was pretty dodgy.

MsJudy · Sep 14, 2011

Kitty Pryde said:
Things I have read about in MG novels, lest you think they are all kittens and rainbows

In fact, if you have kittens and rainbows, it's a PB or a chapter book. MG kids will chew up kittens and spit them out.

Smish · Sep 14, 2011

Kitty Pryde · Sep 14, 2011

MsJudy said:
MG kids will chew up kittens and spit them out.

*steals MsJudy's awesome novel idea*

bonitakale · Sep 15, 2011

MsJudy said:
The thing i always come back to is the sense of time.

MG is totally in the present/near future. The problem is here and now.

YA is really about the future. Whatever the present-moment problem is, the MC is always a bit focused on what happens next. Becoming an adult. Gaining that freedom.

Adult is about the past. How previous events and actions brought the character to the current moment.

Thanks for this. I need to think about it awhile, but right now, I'm thinking you're right.

MsJudy · Sep 15, 2011

Okay, maybe I've been living with terriers for two long. Please don't really chew up the kittehs...

Polenth · Sep 15, 2011

MsJudy said:
Okay, maybe I've been living with terriers for two long. Please don't really chew up the kittehs...

There's a new book with a kitten on the front all over my local bookstore... 'The Kitten Nobody Wanted'. So I was imagining some sort of horror mashup. 'The Kitten Nobody Wanted was Eaten by a Zombie' or something.

(I think I fail at writing cute kitten books.)

Ferret · Sep 15, 2011

Polenth said:
There's a new book with a kitten on the front all over my local bookstore... 'The Kitten Nobody Wanted'. So I was imagining some sort of horror mashup. 'The Kitten Nobody Wanted was Eaten by a Zombie' or something.

(I think I fail at writing cute kitten books.)

What about zombie kittens? That could be cute, in a horrific sort of way.

Kitty Pryde · Sep 15, 2011

Ravenous Man-Eating Zombie Kittens. FROM NEPTUNE!!! I think we're onto something here, folks.

Morrell · Sep 16, 2011

Kitty Pryde said:
Ravenous Man-Eating Zombie Kittens. FROM NEPTUNE!!! I think we're onto something here, folks.

Brilliant! This could rival ... I don't know, Captain Underpants maybe?

Polenth · Sep 16, 2011

RuthD said:
Brilliant! This could rival ... I don't know, Captain Underpants maybe?

The zombie kittens would eat Captain Underpants for breakfast!

:e2teeth:

(I don't know how something gets to be a writing prompt, but I reckon zombie kittens would be a funny one.)

Smish · Sep 16, 2011

Want to be in charge of the October prompt, Polenth?

Polenth · Sep 16, 2011

Smish said:
Want to be in charge of the October prompt, Polenth?

I have no idea how any of that works... I just like zombie kittens.

Smish · Sep 16, 2011

It's easy. On October 1st, you post a thread in the Writing for Kids section titled "October Writing Prompt". And in the body of the post, you give us your prompt.

Then the peeps who want to participate write prompt responses, and post them in SYW.

Polenth · Sep 16, 2011

Smish said:
It's easy. On October 1st, you post a thread in the Writing for Kids section titled "October Writing Prompt". And in the body of the post, you give us your prompt.

Then the peeps who want to participate write prompt responses, and post them in SYW.

Oh, yep. I can do that if you want.

Smish · Sep 16, 2011

That'd be great, thanks.

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