Formatting Question: 1.0 lines between or 1.15?

Wesley Kang · Sep 5, 2011

Hi Folks,

I searched extensively for this answer, I apologize if it's all ready been answered.

In Microsoft Word 2007, the default space between lines is 1.15 and in MS Word 2003 it's 1.0. This makes 2007 word documents look quite different, even though they're both "double-spaced". If you're having a hard time visualizing it, Microsoft explains and shows the difference:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/w...g-between-text-or-paragraphs-HP010016523.aspx

So my question, which is preferred? Does it matter? I like the 1.0, it doesn't look as vacant as the 1.15, but I don't know if 1.15 is like industry standard or something.

Edit: I said "space between sentences" before, I meant "space between lines"

Leigha David · Sep 5, 2011

I've been using 1.5. But that's only personal preference. I have no idea what's preferred.

blacbird · Sep 5, 2011

Leigha David said:
I've been using 1.5. But that's only personal preference. I have no idea what's preferred.

For submission, double-spaced is preferred, universally. This is no secret. Under FORMAT-PARAGRAPH-LINE SPACING, one of your options is "DOUBLE". Do that.

caw

TheIT · Sep 5, 2011

There's a stickied thread at the top of the Novels forum starting with "THE ANSWERS YOU SEEK ARE HERE" or something similar. It's an index to many useful past discussions. The section on Formatting points to threads that describe standard submission formats for novel manuscripts.

Wesley Kang · Sep 5, 2011

Perhaps I wasn't being clear. Yes, I know that you should double-space, that is not my question.

Even with double-spacing, the amount of space in between lines is DIFFERENT on default settings from one version of MS Word to another. So if I use MS Word 2007, the space between each sentence is larger than in 2003. The space between each sentence is 1.15 in 2007 and 1.0 in 2003.

So which should I use?

EDIT: Part of the confusion is that there is no setting for this difference under the normal "paragraph" settings. Click on the link http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/w...g-between-text-or-paragraphs-HP010016523.aspx and look at the picture to see the difference. In order to make a 2007 document look like a 2003 document, you have to change the template you are using manually, it is really quite dumb.

dpaterso · Sep 5, 2011

When you're writing, use whichever version you prefer -- it's the content that matters, not the spacing. Just like you can use whichever font you prefer, or whatever colors your eyes find most pleasant, while writing.

When you're ready to submit your manuscript, change the spacing to double (or whatever the agent's or publisher's submission guidelines ask for, check first) and standardize your font to Courier New 12 or Times New Roman 12 point (again, check the submission guidelines).

-Derek

Wesley Kang · Sep 5, 2011

dpaterso said:
When you're writing, use whichever version you prefer -- it's the content that matters, not the spacing. Just like you can use whichever font you prefer, or whatever colors your eyes find most pleasant, while writing.

When you're ready to submit your manuscript, change the spacing to double (or whatever the agent's or publisher's submission guidelines ask for, check first) and standardize your font to Courier New 12 or Times New Roman 12 point (again, check the submission guidelines).

-Derek

It probably doesn't matter, but the visual difference between 2003 and 2007 is rather dramatic (yes, even when both are double-spaced). Just didn't know if one was preferred. And one more time: I'm not talking about whether or not you should double-space when you submit.

blacbird · Sep 5, 2011

I'm confused completely. You speak of the "space between sentences". So do you mean horizontal spacing, or vertical spacing? What is the "space between sentences", other than a single press of the space bar? Which would be the same as the space between words, wouldn't it?

caw

Wesley Kang · Sep 5, 2011

blacbird said:
I'm confused completely. You speak of the "space between sentences". So do you mean horizontal spacing, or vertical spacing? What is the "space between sentences", other than a single press of the space bar? Which would be the same as the space between words, wouldn't it?

caw

Click on the link. It should explain it better than I am.

I'm talking about the default space between lines in MS Word from one version to another. One literally has more than the other. Sorry, I shouldn't have said sentences, I meant lines. This is what I get for posting so late...

dpaterso · Sep 6, 2011

Wesley Kang said:
It probably doesn't matter, but the visual difference between 2003 and 2007 is rather dramatic (yes, even when both are double-spaced). Just didn't know if one was preferred.

I'm thinking maybe Tech Help might be a better fit for this, there are folks there who have used MS Word for decades and might have the different versions for comparison discussion.

-Derek

Wesley Kang · Sep 6, 2011

Okay, thanks. I didn't mean to get bogged down in technicalities. I wish I could show a picture of how my manuscript looks in Word 2003 and Word 2007.

I started the document in Word 2003 and when I switched to Word 2007, it does funny things to my formatting. Whenever I cut and paste it into a new document (in Word 2007), it automatically goes back to the 2003 formatting, which is why this came up in the first place. I cut and paste my first three chapters into a new document for querying and it looks WAY different.

I actually know how to reformat 2007 to 2003 format, I just want to know which format is preferred.

TheIT · Sep 6, 2011

When you say 2003 vs. 2007, do you mean ".doc" vs. ".docx"? I've seen some publisher guidelines specifically say they want .doc or .rtf files since they can't open .docx files. When you're writing, use whatever you like, but check the guidelines for the publisher/agent before you submit. As far as I can tell, as long as you're using appropriate font and margins, you'll be fine. They're not going to take a ruler to the page and check.

Sounds like you're defaulting to copy the source formatting when you paste from the clipboard. You might want to change to keep the target formatting when you paste, or "paste special" with just text so it formats based on the target document style. If your file has a mix of formats, copy all and paste the text into a fresh file to clean things up.

backslashbaby · Sep 6, 2011

Can you tell which one rtf in Wordpad uses? That would be the least 'formatted', I think.

I'm sure recent Word rtf double spacing is something they see a lot, so you are probably fine either way.

This probably has to do with all of that 'before' and 'after' stuff if you changed it manually, eh? The only time I bother with all that is if I'm using an unusual font that makes things look odd if you don't play around with those settings

alleycat · Sep 6, 2011

I think they changed the default spacing to be easier to read on a computer monitor (especially with some of the newer fonts).

You can change the default, of course. I would probably change it back to 1.0 for anything I was printing out, or sending as an attachment.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 6, 2011

I honestly see no difference at all in spacing between Word 3003 and Word 2007 when the space settings are the same. What you may be seeing is the automatic space change Word 2007 does when you hit the enter key.

To stop this, you have to change the "Remove space before paragraph" option. Otherwise, you think you're getting 1.0 or 1.5 or 2.0, but you're really getting an extra space that doesn't belong there.

bonitakale · Sep 6, 2011

If the default spacing is 1.5, a double-spaced ms. comes out triple-spaced, is that what you're saying? That seems very odd. How are you setting the spacing for the manuscript, and the spacing for the paragraphs?

Wesley Kang · Sep 6, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
I honestly see no difference at all in spacing between Word 3003 and Word 2007 when the space settings are the same. What you may be seeing is the automatic space change Word 2007 does when you hit the enter key.

To stop this, you have to change the "Remove space before paragraph" option. Otherwise, you think you're getting 1.0 or 1.5 or 2.0, but you're really getting an extra space that doesn't belong there.

Default spacing for MS Word 2007 is 1.15 lines (not 1.5). This is not the space before paragraph thing,
I have it checked off. There is a noticeable difference especially when double-spaced. Click on the link in my original post, it'll give you an idea what I'm talking about.

The thing is, there is no way to change this from normal paragraph settings, so unless you use both formatting types (which I do), you probably won't notice the difference.

Wesley Kang · Sep 6, 2011

backslashbaby said:
Can you tell which one rtf in Wordpad uses? That would be the least 'formatted', I think.

I'm sure recent Word rtf double spacing is something they see a lot, so you are probably fine either way.

This probably has to do with all of that 'before' and 'after' stuff if you changed it manually, eh? The only time I bother with all that is if I'm using an unusual font that makes things look odd if you don't play around with those settings

Thanks, that's great advice about the rtf. I'll check it out.

And with doc and docx difference, I'll probably then go back to the MS Word 2003 format.

And thanks again, everyone!

ComicBent · Sep 6, 2011

Tossing in my two cents ...

I still use Word 2003 when I use Word at all, so I am talking about Word 2007 without ever having seen it. Bad, I know.

But I have worked with software for a long time. Even without looking at Word 2007, I can tell you that James Ritchie is correct in what he said above. You just have to know how to adjust the settings. You cannot use default settings that Microsoft assumed would be desirable.

I read Microsoft's "explanation" of the issue, and I immediately saw areas of potential confusion. What they have done makes about as much sense as "New Coke" did in the 1980s. More than 90 percent of users are simply not computer-literate enough to create a template with the settings that they want. Microsoft did nobody any favors with this change.

I do not think any of this has to do with the "docx vs. doc" issue. It is all a matter of how you have your line spacing and paragraph spacing set up. By the way, I would advise against using RTF as a file format. It can sometimes produce bizarre formatting if you open the file in a program different from the one that was used to create it. RTF simply does not work as well as it was supposed to, and it produces some really bloated code.

Best ...

PeteDutcher · Sep 6, 2011

blacbird said:
I'm confused completely. You speak of the "space between sentences". So do you mean horizontal spacing, or vertical spacing? What is the "space between sentences", other than a single press of the space bar? Which would be the same as the space between words, wouldn't it?

caw

That would be space between words unless a sentence ends, in which case its a single space.

PeteDutcher · Sep 6, 2011

btw...

When I'm working on a book, I like setting it up as close to novel format as possible. I change the page size and margins to closely match and fit words per page.

I use 12 times roman.

I do this because it helps me figure out how many printed pages I'd have.

When a novel is complete, I reset the margins and page sizes. And all lines are double spaced.

Chris P · Sep 6, 2011

Microsoft deserves to be levied a hefty fine for setting many of its default and autocorrect settings incorrectly. It does the en-dash wrong, it does the ellipses wrong, it defaults to 1.15 line spacing, and this stupid "insert line before paragraph" nonsense (which is what I thought you were referring to) is beyond aggravating. You won't believe the number of arguments I have based on "But that's what Word does."

Microsoft simply cannot rewrite the rules of grammar just because it thinks it looks prettier on screen. :rant:

Jamesaritchie · Sep 6, 2011

Wesley Kang said:
Default spacing for MS Word 2007 is 1.15 lines (not 1.5). This is not the space before paragraph thing,
I have it checked off. There is a noticeable difference especially when double-spaced. Click on the link in my original post, it'll give you an idea what I'm talking about.

The thing is, there is no way to change this from normal paragraph settings, so unless you use both formatting types (which I do), you probably won't notice the difference.

Yes, the default in Word 2997 is 1.15, but this means nothing. All "default" means is that you have to change the settings to get them the way you want them, and any default setting can be changed.

Once you change the default in Word 2007 to 1.0, rather than 1.15, or change both to 2.0, you're fine on this score.

You can go in and set the default for 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0, or anything in between, and once you do this, I can see no difference at all between Word 2003 and Word 2007.

I used Word 2003 for several years, and have now been using Word 2007 for at least two years. When I compare them side by side, I see no difference at all when I set everything equally.

Microsoft is lousy at giving help, and their explanations often border on the incomprehensible. The link you provide says only that they differ because they use different defaults. So you have to change the default. Once you do this, 2.0 is 2.0 in either version.

Here's the thing, though. Even if you set the defaults equally, you still have to check the space before paragraph setting, or the results will look very different. You won't be getting the same setting in Word 2007 as in Word 2003 because Word 2003 did not come with the same space before or after paragraph default.

If you don't don't how to adjust default settings for all documents, default line spacing for all documents, paragraph spacing, etc., or just don't want to mess with it, you can always take the quick and easy way out by going into Word options and changing all new document layout to Word 2003 format.

Deleted member 42 · Sep 6, 2011

Plus, Microsoft's ellipses is a special character in a special hidden font.

Grrrr.

Chris P · Sep 6, 2011

Oh, that's annoying. I tried to have Word change the autocorrect for ellipses, three spaced periods with non-breaking space between. I typed it the way is should be, copied and pasted and it autocorrects as breaking spaces.

The reason it matters is if they are breaking spaces at the end of a line, one or two of the three periods will appear on the next line. The non-breaking spaces keeps them all on the same line.

Formatting Question: 1.0 lines between or 1.15?

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