Too edgy for YA?

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

Hi everyone, just started working on my next book geared to YAs and it hit me that it just might be too edgy/dark.

PLEASE SEE MY NEW POST IN #20 ABOUT TOO EDGY IN YA.

This is what I'm worried about: "17-year-old American girl is abducted by human traffickers to be sold at an auction as a sex slave." If this were to happen in real life (actually, it does) she would be beaten repeatedly and probably raped repeatedly by her abductors as well.

I'm thinking very few American teenage girls would want to read about this. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

suki · Aug 16, 2011

juliatheswede said:
Hi everyone, just started working on my next book geared to YAs and it hit me that it just might be too edgy/dark.

This is what I'm worried about: "17-year-old American girl is abducted by human traffickers to be sold at an auction as a sex slave." If this were to happen in real life (actually, it does) she would be beaten repeatedly and probably raped repeatedly by her abductors as well.

I'm thinking very few American teenage girls would want to read about this. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Check out the following and then decide if your book would be too edgy for YA:
Living Dead Girl, by Elizabeth Scott
Tender Morsels, by margot Lanagan
Tricks, by Ellen Hopkins

Now, having said that, the first two are exceptional novels by exceptional writers, and while I don't love the third, it is also well regarded as exceptional and from a very popular author. And none of the three were debut novels.

Whether you can write the story in a way that is compelling and marketable as YA novel, and that handles the material appropriate to the YA market, is a different question, the answer to which you won't know until you try.

But the subject matter is not, per se, too edgy to be included in a YA novel.

~suki

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

Thanks, Suki! Those books are definitely DARK. And probably more in the literary category; mine would be more like a thriller (not that that was clear from my description). I think I might make it more commercial if I can avoid having the MC actually get raped because the abductors want to keep her a virgin/pure until the auction...

Chumala · Aug 16, 2011

juliatheswede said:
Thanks, Suki! Those books are definitely DARK. And probably more in the literary category; mine would be more like a thriller (not that that was clear from my description). I think I might make it more commercial if I can avoid having the MC actually get raped because the abductors want to keep her a virgin/pure until the auction...

Isn't that what they normally do?

If you've ever seen the movie TAKEN, it is where two girls go to Europe and get abducted. Then their father who is an ex CIA agent comes in and takes back his daughter. They keep her untouched because a virgin girl would fetch a hirer price.

Seeing as the girl is regarded as property now, why would someone want "Damaged or used" goods? Therefore in my opinion keep her untouched.

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

Chumala said:
Isn't that what they normally do?

If you've ever seen the movie TAKEN, it is where two girls go to Europe and get abducted. Then their father who is an ex CIA agent comes in and takes back his daughter. They keep her untouched because a virgin girl would fetch a hirer price.

Seeing as the girl is regarded as property now, why would someone want "Damaged or used" goods? Therefore in my opinion keep her untouched.

Thanks for your input, Chumala. I did see that movie and that's actually where I got the idea. Though my auction would be a bit different than the one in the movie and the feel of the book more similar to hunger games or divergent than the books Suki suggested (though those books are definitely books I personally would love to read. But I'm far from a teenager...sigh)...

Momento Mori · Aug 16, 2011

I'll add to the recommended reading list Dirty Work by Julia Bell (which didn't work for me, but deals with very similar subject matter - actually my biggest beef with the story is the fact that the main character is the only one who isn't sexually abused and it stretched credibility).

My big issue with the idea isn't the subject matter but the fact that it reminded me a lot of TAKEN, which is something you should be careful of.

If you want to write a book about sex trafficking, then you should know that most people who are trafficked are repeatedly raped to make sure that they remain compliant. The idea of keeping someone 'pure' has never made sense to me - firstly because you have to find out if someone is a virgin in the first place and secondly because while the notion of high end whore mongers is unfortunately attractive in the media, the truth is that victims are sold in grubby, downmarket areas to pathetic and brutal men. (Gah - apologies that got ranty - not aimed at you).

MM

Archie1989 · Aug 16, 2011

If you haven't already, watch the movie "Taken." I wanted to incorporate sex trafficking into my WIP, but my boyfriend (who knows way too much about this stuff due to his work in policing) told me that it's nearly unheard of for a girl to be abducted IN AMERICA and sold into sex slavery. Most likely she'd be abroad, and taken there. (Like in "Taken" the movie)

Also, although the girl in the movie was beaten, she wasn't raped, because the traffickers were "advertising" her as a virgin. They even had someone "check" if you know what I mean, to make sure that she was, during the sale.

My mom suggested I watch that movie, and I think I was 19 at the time. She WANTED me to see it so that I'd understand the dangers of being a young female. In that light, I think it'd be fine as a YA. Though admittedly, older YA.

suki · Aug 16, 2011

juliatheswede said:
f the book more similar to hunger games or divergent than the books Suki suggested (though those books are definitely books I personally would love to read. But I'm far from a teenager...sigh)...

Not sure I understand the bolded bit...the books I recommeneded are popular with teenagers (certainly Tender Morsels and Tricks, at least), though, yes, more literary perhaps than Divergent or Hunger Games.

And while I get it's common and attractive to want the commercial success of Divergent or Hunger Games, they are not contemporary, realistic thrillers. You might want to find some contemporary YA thrillers to consider your story and how to market it.

Momento Mori said:
My big issue with the idea isn't the subject matter but the fact that it reminded me a lot of TAKEN, which is something you should be careful of.

If you want to write a book about sex trafficking, then you should know that most people who are trafficked are repeatedly raped to make sure that they remain compliant. The idea of keeping someone 'pure' has never made sense to me - firstly because you have to find out if someone is a virgin in the first place and secondly because while the notion of high end whore mongers is unfortunately attractive in the media, the truth is that victims are sold in grubby, downmarket areas to pathetic and brutal men. (Gah - apologies that got ranty - not aimed at you).

MM

Agreed. The idea of keeping her pure is certainly one way to go, but it's actually far less common. if you want your book to mirror reality, do your research into what that reality is, would be my advice. And perhaps also make it very different from Taken, so that it stands on its own...

~suki

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

Will probably scrap this idea and move onto something slightly less sordid for my thriller.
Archie: The American chick is in Sweden visiting her aunt. But she will no longer be abducted...
Suki: Just thought those books, while maybe popular among teens, would be a hard sell as a first novel if the current one I'm pitching doesn't sell. Am FINALLY having lots of requests from agents on it, but it's not all that dark...
MM: Yeah, I know it kind of sounds like Taken.. Checked out Dirty Work, surprised it hasn't done better. Maybe human trafficking isn't a very popular subject...

Thanks again for giving me your thoughts!

thebloodfiend · Aug 16, 2011

Even if you're thinking about scrapping the idea, I'd like to add Sold, by Patricia McCormick, to your list. I haven't read it yet (it's been sitting on my desk all summer) but it deals with the sex trade in Asia (Malaysia?). A bunch of college kids who stayed with me in '08 were going on and on and on about it.

missesdash · Aug 16, 2011

Oh man if you think this is edgy YA you should read my WIP. I feel like I'm going to get arrested for even thinking of it .

I plan to write what I want and then have an agent decide how to market it. That's best, I'd say. And I think crossovers are good.

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

missesdash said:
Oh man if you think this is edgy YA you should read my WIP. I feel like I'm going to get arrested for even thinking of it .

I plan to write what I want and then have an agent decide how to market it. That's best, I'd say. And I think crossovers are good.

Is that the paranormal you posted chapters of in the SYW forum? Or something different? What i read in SYW didn't strike me as very edgy. But you must be talking about something new, right?

Phaeal · Aug 16, 2011

missesdash said:
Oh man if you think this is edgy YA you should read my WIP. I feel like I'm going to get arrested for even thinking of it .

I plan to write what I want and then have an agent decide how to market it. That's best, I'd say. And I think crossovers are good.

LOL, the book that just went to my agent may be like this. Its hero falls from a high place, gets raped, then sold to a brothel. That he's a he probably makes it worse, though that it's a fantasy may make it a little more palatable -- oh, okay, these things don't happen in OUR world.

missesdash · Aug 16, 2011

juliatheswede said:
Is that the paranormal you posted chapters of in the SYW forum? Or something different? What i read in SYW didn't strike me as very edgy. But you must be talking about something new, right?

I have two things up in SYW. But I'm talking about the one with suicide as drug use. It posted my opening and had to put "drugs, sex and language" in the header.

I've opted not to post the more graphic scenes as Ive realized it could trigger some people.

milkymoon · Aug 16, 2011

I think it depends entirely on how you handle it. If it's gratuitous it would be problematic. But rape and the sex industry are important subjects to discuss due to their prevalence, therefore there's a place for that in YA. As long as it's dealt with sensitively.

Lady Ice · Aug 16, 2011

There was a TV drama on about this a few years ago. I think it was called Traffic. It also crops up in detective shows like Waking The Dead and Silent Witness.

eyeblink · Aug 16, 2011

Lady Ice said:
There was a TV drama on about this a few years ago. I think it was called Traffic. It also crops up in detective shows like Waking The Dead and Silent Witness.

Would that be Sex Traffic, written by Abi Morgan and starring Anamaria Marinca and John Simm? TV miniseries made in 2004. I saw it - very good and needless to say quite distressing in places.

Three Fish · Aug 16, 2011

Lol when will people stop thinking they can be "too edgy" for YA. It's all been covered: rape, incest, drug use, suicide, abortion, murder, torture, pedophilia, etc etc...

If it's relevant to the story and the writing is good, then people will read it. If you're modifying your story to make it more commercially appealing, then that's another issue entirely-- and not necessarily a bad one.

But to answer the original question: no, that is not "too edgy" for YA.

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

jaxymack said:
Lol when will people stop thinking they can be "too edgy" for YA. It's all been covered: rape, incest, drug use, suicide, abortion, murder, torture, pedophilia, etc etc...

If it's relevant to the story and the writing is good, then people will read it. If you're modifying your story to make it more commercially appealing, then that's another issue entirely-- and not necessarily a bad one.

But to answer the original question: no, that is not "too edgy" for YA.

I guess you do have a point there, Jaxy... and I just happen to love all the edgy, more "literary" YA novels I've read... It's all been done before. But I do think it's important for a new author to consider just how much harder it may be to sell a novel containing very dark, sordid subjects. The only first-time novelist I can think of who sold and succeeded with his first edgy novel is Jay Asher. Though that novel is definitely not graphic and just so well done. Last, story is not about the person committing suicide but about one of the "outsiders".

I'm wondering if Suzanne Collins would have ever have succeeded in finding both an agent and then a publisher had she been an unknown author for Hunger Games, which I consider to be extremely edgy, though very good.

juliatheswede · Aug 16, 2011

Speaking of edgy in YA: I'm having a good request rate on my latest YA novel, which is about a high school bully who died and can't get into heaven without first having been forgiven by her victim on earth. The bully seeks out victim as a ghost and toward the end of the story the bully confesses she was sexually abused by her father. it really is a quite minor point in the book, added to show why the bully's life was not as perfect as it seemed on the outside. The main story is about the victim finding herself with the help of the ghost bully.

Now two agents, who seemed excited after having read the first fifty, rejected it, specifically mentioning that the child abuse is an "adult issue," making me think this is a big reason why they are rejecting it.
Any thoughts?

Ashes Oh Ashes · Aug 16, 2011

Child abuse is not only an adult issue. There's YA books out there that have child abuse in them. I would suggest looking at the rest of the manuscript and finding out if there's a problem with the writing/plot.

missesdash · Aug 16, 2011

Wow they said child abuse is an "adult issue"?

Child abuse is an "everyone" issue

Liosse de Velishaf · Aug 16, 2011

missesdash said:
Wow they said child abuse is an "adult issue"?

Child abuse is an "everyone" issue

I'm confused as well... It's called "child abuse" for a reason.

thebloodfiend · Aug 16, 2011

I'm kind of lost at that. So kids are abused, but they can't read about kids being abused, even though that could help them get over their abuse if the book isn't triggering? Huh?

Don't people like reading about others who've endured similar situations? Doesn't that help certain people?

GFanthome · Aug 16, 2011

I have to admit, I ask myself that same question about my own novel and if I should try approaching YA publishers. I've been told it's too edgy for YA, but sometimes when I see what gets published, I'm not so sure anymore...

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