Mac recommendation

[Gale Haut]

My crappy netbook keeps crashing just from using Gimp and it's giving me a headache.

I've never owned a Mac but I'm very familiar with the OS. Since I'm getting more into graphic design I was hoping to invest in a fair quality Mac. I'm looking at the Mac Pro, and it's well out of my budget since I'll also need to get a graphics tablet and the Adobe Design Suite with it.

Sadly several articles I've read indicate that doing high end graphic design work really requires the biggest investment. So if I absolutely must go with the best for whatever reason, I will make it happen.

Any recommendations on purchasing Mac/Other for graphic designing would be much appreciated.

[Medievalist]

Have you got a good LCD Monitor and decent USB keyboard?

I'd consider a Mac Mini.

And I'd look at the Refurbs at Apple.com; they're still covered by the same warranty, but they cost less.

And don't get more RAM from Apple; buy it from a life time warranty company, at much much less.

[Gale Haut]

Have you got a good LCD Monitor and decent USB keyboard?


Yes and yes! It's a monitor for a PC, but I'm assuming most/all macs will support the adapter. Will look into it first.

I'd consider a Mac Mini.

That surprises and pleases me to hear. I thought I would have to seriously scrape the bottom of my piggy bank more and possibly leave behind a few fingernails.

And I'd look at the Refurbs at Apple.com; they're still covered by the same warranty, but they cost less.

Will do!

And don't get more RAM from Apple; buy it from a life time warranty company, at much much less.

Seriously would not have discovered this. Thanks for the tip.

[kuwisdelu]

You really don't need Xenon CPU's for graphic design. The Mac Pro is way overkill.

If you already have a good display, the Mac minis were just refreshed with new Sandy Bridge i5's and i7's, and the high-end ones (which can still come in under $1k) finally have a discrete graphics card. The memory is easily upgradeable, too. The client models have dual-core i5's upgradeable to an i7 in the high-end. There is a server configuration with a quad-core i7 and dual hard drives, but you sacrifice the discrete AMD GPU. It is possible to add a second hard drive to the client model on your own, but this will void your warranty if anything goes wrong. One important thing to note with the new Mac minis is they have no optical drive, so you'll need another computer or the add-on USB DVD drive if you need to work with optical media. The Apple store probably has refurbished old models that still have the optical drive, but the hardware of the old Mac mini was rather anemic compared to the new ones, so I wouldn't do that.

If you don't have a good display, the iMacs are a pretty good deal despite being all-in-one desktops suffering from can't-upgrade-itis, since you're getting a very nice display on them (though it is glossy). If you get the 27-inch, you're essentially getting a $999 display that just happens to house a computer in it. I believe you can upgrade the memory on your own, but make sure to configure the hard drives you'll before ordering, as you can't upgrade the drives without disassembling the whole thing and voiding your warranty, a major headache.

If you want to work on the go, the MacBook Pros are still a good deal, having been refreshed in the spring. Both the 13-inch and 15-inch are very portable. The 13-inch is lacking in resolution, being only 1280x800, so you'll almost definitely want an external display for graphics work. The 15-inch's display can be upgraded to a respectable 1680x1050 from the default 1440x900. You should also consider the hi-res (1680x1050) matte display option over the standard glossy display if you go this route, for more accurate color and less glare. The MacBook Pros can take up 16 GB memory if you can manage to find 8 GB sticks, but since those are pretty rare and expensive, you'll probably just want to upgrade to 8 GB (cheaper if you get it elsewhere). Besides the display, the other primary difference between the 13-inch and the larger models is the 13-inch only comes with Intel HD 3000 integrated graphics, while the 15-inch and 17-inch also come with discrete AMD Radeon GPUs, which will definitely help for graphics work and driving extra monitors. Also the 13-inch is only dual-core, while the 15-inch and 17-inch are quad-core. That may help with rendering and stuff, but I'm not sure how multithreaded the Adobe suite is.

I don't know how large your budget is, but there is also the possibility of an SSD to consider over an HDD, which would definitely help when working on large files that use a lot of scratch disk space. The downside is, of course, they're much more expensive and not as large. On the higher-end iMacs, you could configure a model with both a 1-2 TB HDD for storage and a 256 GB SSD for your apps and scratch space. One thing to keep in mind with the MacBook Pro, where you could upgrade to an SSD later if you want, is Apple only supports TRIM (this is a system command that keeps the SSD from slowing down over time) on their own drives, not third party ones, so if you decide to upgrade to an SSD later, you'll want one that makes up for this with firmware on the drive itself, like a SandForce SSD.

As Lisa mentioned, the refurb store can have good deals if money is tight. They're covered by the same warranty as new Macs. Sometimes they have current-generation Macs, and sometimes older-generation Macs, so make sure you look at which generation (it'll list the date of release on the store) you're getting and what its specs are. If it's an iMac, make sure the hard drive is big enough for you, since you mysteriously can't upgrade it.

Well... that's a lot to read. Feel free to ask about anything I've mentioned.

[Gale Haut]

♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥❤♥

Yayz. Such good stuff. Thanks so much Kuwi. The more I look at it, the more in love with the mini I fall. Hopefully the refurbished ones will really help out my budget and I will be able to spring for a bigger graphics tablet! That would be CRAZY AMAZING! XD

I am def not planning on getting another laptop, so the MacBook is not for me. I did learn from the info though; it's not all for not. Much obliged to that end.

I'm honestly not sure how important the optical drive is to me. I wasn't planning on watching any DVDs or anything. But there is the possibility of working on animation in the future that I don't want to discount... Hmm. You've given me lots to think about.

By the way, what is this about voiding warranties if you try to upgrade stuff? I'm a Mac n00b and this sounds like nasty business to me.

[kuwisdelu]

By the way, what is this about voiding warranties if you try to upgrade stuff? I'm a Mac n00b and this sounds like nasty business to me.

Only certain parts are considered user-upgradeable. For the MacBook Air, this is none. For the Mac mini, it's the memory, and I don't remember if the hard drive is considered user-upgradeable or not but not the hard drive. For the iMac, you can upgrade memory, but not the hard drive. On the MacBook Pro, you can upgrade both the memory and the hard drive yourself.

Of course, if you do it and nothing breaks, it all works out fine. And if it's something you can undo should something unrelated break, you can always just undo it before taking it in, and Apple will never know. But that all depends on how savvy you are when it comes to messing around with computer innards.

Generally, it's a matter of how difficult the particular upgrade is and how the computer was designed. On the MacBook Pro, the whole bottom panel is removable, giving easy access to everything, so they consider more parts user-upgradable. On the iMac, to get to the hard drive, you have to disassemble the whole thing, so they don't want regular users messing around with that.

There are step-by-step guides with pictures on ifixit.com to replace/upgrade just about every part in every Mac you can think of if you want to get an idea how how easy or difficult any particular upgrade may be. Here (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-Mac-mini-Model-A1347-RAM/3107/1) is the guide to replacing memory in the old Mac mini. Here (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Mac-mini-Model-A1347-Hard-Drive-Replacement/3113/1) is the guide to replacing the hard drive. Check the links, and you'll see why they don't want regular users doing the second one.

ETA: One nifty little secret is that Apple-certified repair places are a lot more lax than the mothership when it comes to this stuff, and they'll honor Apple's warranty and Applecare just like the Apple Store. ;)

[Gale Haut]

I'm in love with your brain, Kuwi.

The apple store has no refurbed minis at the moment. Is that the only reliable place to buy refurbished Mac products?

[kuwisdelu]

I'm in love with your brain, Kuwi.

The apple store has no refurbed minis at the moment. Is that the only reliable place to buy refurbished Mac products?

As far as I know. There are, however, a few Mac resellers that sell (new) Macs (slightly) cheaper than you can get from Apple, though, such as Mac Connection (http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/PM/Brands/Apple/Macmini/default.htm), but you can't create a custom configuration beyond what they offer. The Mac minis were just updated, so it may be a few months before the current generation shows up on the refurb store.

[Medievalist]

Can you wait about 30 days?

[Gale Haut]

Well... It sort of depends on how much less the refurbished will be.

Apparently buying new with a student discount will get me the Adobe Design Standard for only $199. That includes all of the programs I need immediately. Kind of amazing. So, that's an extra $100 off with purchase of a brand new mini at $579.

Plus there's that $100 itunes coupon.

That gives me quite a lot of wiggle room on the tablet, and I would really like to splurge on the tablet if need be.

Now if the refurbished is going to be as much as half off... I might be willing to wait a month. I think I would need to consider loss of actual design gigs and experience though...

Thinking...

[Medievalist]

No it won't be that much but you do need to look at the edu store for your area. You're not in the U. S. Right?

[kuwisdelu]

The refurbished Macs are rarely more than 10-20% off.

[Gale Haut]

No it won't be that much but you do need to look at the edu store for your area. You're not in the U. S. Right?

I'm not in Mexico, despite what my ip address might be telling you...

The refurbished Macs are rarely more than 10-20% off.

10% is about the same as the edu discount. I think I am good to go with the student discount. Hopefully I can put the exact funds together before they take down the deal.

I feel really lucky to have gotten such great feedback.


Now to do more research on tablets. I really, really want a gigantic one. :D

[Medievalist]

Look at the Apple .edu store too since it also carries refurbs and software deals.

[Tirjasdyn]

If you don't have a good display, the iMacs are a pretty good deal despite being all-in-one desktops suffering from can't-upgrade-itis, since you're getting a very nice display on them (though it is glossy). If you get the 27-inch, you're essentially getting a $999 display that just happens to house a computer in it.

For graphic design skip the imac. Go with a mac, either laptop or box that you can attach a good monitor too.

Color is only correct on the imacs if you are looking at the exact center of the screen and even then it calibrates poorly. You will be continuously jerking the thing around. We wish constantly that we had bought Mac pros instead.

[Medievalist]

Color is only correct on the imacs if you are looking at the exact center of the screen and even then it calibrates poorly. You will be continuously jerking the thing around. We wish constantly that we had bought Mac pros instead.

You've got a messed up iMac; that's not typical of the line at all.

[kuwisdelu]

I see complaints related to its being glossy often enough, but I can't recall seeing any criticism due to bad viewing angles.

[amyashley]

We have not had any issues with our iMac screen/color.

Well aside from the fact that it is CONSTANTLY streaked and smeared from small children's grubby hands. User issue.

Gale Haut, good luck with your purchase. I have many user-induced catastrophes with my Mac's but never regrets. The tech help from AW is fantabulous.

[Gale Haut]

I've been reading complaints about a glossy screen as well. Maybe there's bad lighting in Tjar's office space.

[Medievalist]

Now to do more research on tablets. I really, really want a gigantic one. :D

You know, talk to some graphic artists who've used a lot of different ones.

I was about to buy the top of the line Very Large Wacom, and my artists said no, really, they'd like the middle one instead.

Takes up less space, and involves less moving around--they usually work on one section of an image at once, so the size was actually not a positive for them; just meant lots of extra motion.

Do look at the various high-end stylus options too.

[Sharii]

I have had 9x12 wacom tablet before, but my current one is 6x8, and I prefer this one much better.

As for mac, I now prefer macbook pro over imac, since they're pretty much the same spec. But I love the mobility laptop gives me. And by mobility, I mean ability to move from my desk to kitchen and back. :D

[Gale Haut]

I think I would prefer the medium to the large as well. But the small just seems to be too small.

I've not had a good chance to play with one yet. :(

[Nightmelody]

Teksale dot com also sells refurbished macs. Computer tech guy I worked with sent me there, we have two desk tops refurbished. I bought one just to use Scrivener.

[Tirjasdyn]

You've got a messed up iMac; that's not typical of the line at all.

We got six bad Imacs then.

[rhetoric by rosalie]

MacBook Pro is the way to go if you want to do graphics. As a writer I prefer the MacBook Air since it sits on my lap for a long time, and if I need the graphics, I'll just get hubby to do it on his computer (which is the pro version).

[Gale Haut]

For the record, the mac mini is not powerful enough to do high resolution graphics. I'm doing what I can with it but it freezes up constantly in the adobe programs since the day that I got it.

[Medievalist]

For the record, the mac mini is not powerful enough to do high resolution graphics. I'm doing what I can with it but it freezes up constantly in the adobe programs since the day that I got it.

Have you maxed out the RAM?

Are you running Lion or Snow Leopard?

[GodOfABF]

Don't forget that you don't necessarily have to invest in costly Mac-specific software, if and when you decide to buy a Mac as your main PC. There is a lot of excellent Open Source software (starting with GIMP and OpenOffice) that will run very well on a MacOS box... meaning that you can use the dollars that would otherwise have gone to proprietary, commercial software, to buy yourself more RAM, and bigger HDU, maybe a faster CPU and so on.

For the record, I have been using and installing Macintoshes since the original Mac 128 / 512 in the early 1980s, and my own view of this entire ecosystem is that it is considerably superior to the Windows environment (especially as regards ease of use and security, up to a point), although Apple's tight brand control and hardware-centric business model mean that "CPU cycle for CPU cycle", Macs are substantially more expensive than an equivalent Windows PC.

In these days when a great deal of computer activity is abstracted through the "cloud" and / or the Web, this is much less of a consideration than it once was, but it's still something to keep in mind when you decide what to buy.

That said, for a writer, a Mac is a pretty good investment, especially if you have little interest in the arcane details of computer technology and just want to have something that lets you bang out (hopefully) good prose.

As always, YMMV...

Cheers

[Gale Haut]

Have you maxed out the RAM?

Are you running Lion or Snow Leopard?

I'm going to buy more RAM to see if it helps, but the speed that it runs at when I have multiple adobe applications running has been disappointing from the beginning. I think using the wacom at the same time is very taxing on the machine. Hopefully the extra RAM will help.


As for the advice about GIMP, I'll say that I love the program and the other freeware alternatives, but they really aren't suitable substitutions at my current workload. It literally is like working with a gimp arm or leg using the program, and requires too much compensation. :P

[Medievalist]

I'm going to buy more RAM to see if it helps, but the speed that it runs at when I have multiple adobe applications running has been disappointing from the beginning. I think using the wacom at the same time is very taxing on the machine. Hopefully the extra RAM will help.

Max out the RAM. All the number crunching Adobe apps engage in is designed to take place in RAM. The fact that it slows down with multiple apps open is a dead giveaway.

Also always keep at least 10% of your drive empty.

[kuwisdelu]

When it slows down, open Activity Monitor (Applications->Utilities->Activity Monitor) and check your page outs. If it's high (more than a tenth or so of your page ins) then it's definitely a memory issue and more RAM will help.

The lower-end minis also don't have great graphics cards, but I don't know that that would be an issue for 2D work.

[Gale Haut]

Max out the RAM. All the number crunching Adobe apps engage in is designed to take place in RAM. The fact that it slows down with multiple apps open is a dead giveaway.

Oh...

Thanks. :)